1. #4601
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    But artifact power didn't stay forever, that's the problem with it. If they had kept artifact weapons and just added both new skins aswell as cosmetic boss weapon skin drops, well that would have been a horizontal progression that stays forever instead of the borrowed power we got.
    Artifact Power was partially meant to be something you could always do to progress - allowing you to do all sorts of old content and always get "something" out of it, which doubled incentivizing people to help others with lower content. However, this resulted in cases where extreme players didn't exert any self-control or moderation, farming things like Maw of Soul into oblivion.

    Yet, if they had implemented things like hard-caps, or increasing degradation to going back and doing this content repeatedly, it would not only hurt casuals who are trying to catch up all at once quickly, but it also entirely defeats the purpose of the system of allowing people to do old content and with other people whenever for some modicum of power, and it would also be determined how much you would "need" to do as necessary. With hard or soft caps, suddenly those caps becomes mandatory rather than just something fun people can just do whenever and however much is acceptable for them.

    People burning themselves out on the system was a self-inflicted punishment, partially there because the high-end players had no way of knowing going into the next tiers how much AP they needed in order to do the next content - so they farmed into oblivion. Had Blizzard perhaps released statements saying how much would be expected in the next tier, maybe that might have helped the situation so that people could comfortably hit where they knew the next tier could be and then stop without actually putting in caps into the system itself that would have harmed everyone. Yet, this also kind of feeds into what is "mandatory" or not for these high end players (which admittedly also feels bad), but without a high-end determined metric for them to stop at - having them farm into oblivion wasn't exactly ideal. I don't see a much better way of potentially handling the situation without disrupting the system itself in a way that hurts everyone.
    Last edited by Razion; 2021-07-24 at 06:42 AM.

  2. #4602
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  3. #4603
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    Artifacts were also that it directly affecting your class and fit your class gameplay. Unlike BfA or SL you didn't just start to shoot random piss-colored lasers all over the place which had nothing to do with your class, instead these where thematic additions on a spec by spec basis. SL is slightly better than BfA in that regard, but they just dropped the ball with the stupid exclusivity. Though it's also only tangetially related to our classes. With the exception of a hand full classes, most are still barely connected in anything sensible thematic way.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  4. #4604
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    give me the skin system without the power system

  5. #4605
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    It has the same quality that makes all previous mechanics better in hindsight, it was fun at the very beginning when it was a talent tree, and it was fun towards the end when it was just a small infinite power grind attached to a regular weapon.

    However in the middle it was a right mess. Annoyances upon annoyances when you felt compelled to farm content you didn't like for power gains that wildly fluctuated from pointless to literal 2-3% power gains for a single trait.


    The weapon skin farming mechanic was fun though, even if it ended up being to its detriment after 7.2 when the game had no weapon skins to offer except Taeshalach and Scythe of the Unmaker.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  6. #4606
    Remember how there were encrypted models in 9.1 that I believe we haven't seen yet?

    If Armored Zovaal isn't one of them (he only appeared in a cutscene, not ingame) then maybe it will be Arthas's new model. AFAIK he was using his old Wrath model in the upcoming Uther quest on PTR but maybe they wanted to keep his new look a secret.

    I... really don't think they would have him use his old model in such a serious moment.

    The other model (I think there were 2?) would be Sylvanas with purple eyes.

  7. #4607
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Remember how there were encrypted models in 9.1 that I believe we haven't seen yet?

    If Armored Zovaal isn't one of them (he only appeared in a cutscene, not ingame) then maybe it will be Arthas's new model. AFAIK he was using his old Wrath model in the upcoming Uther quest on PTR but maybe they wanted to keep his new look a secret.

    I... really don't think they would have him use his old model in such a serious moment.

    The other model (I think there were 2?) would be Sylvanas with purple eyes.
    Im ready for the dead Sylvanas model

  8. #4608
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    The downside with artifacts was that at the time you were stuck to certain types for transmog. For example, I have a pretty large weapon variety for transmog, but my windwalker monk was locked to fists which have the second fewest skins available (with only wands beating it out).

    That SUCKED.

    Thankfully transmog has been loosened now so that wouldn't be as bad.
    Last edited by Kiivar86; 2021-07-25 at 12:40 AM.

  9. #4609
    In a future expansion (preferably the next one), I'd like to see all previous borrowed-power systems return in a way. Instead of having them for a limited time, we should have them forever, right up until the eventual/possible end of the game.

    This includes but would not be limited to: Legion Artifact traits, the Netherlight Crucible, Azerite traits, Covenant Soulbind traits, Anima Powers, and more. Perhaps even some of the more worthwhile tier-set bonuses.

    "We can become the gods we've always been striving to be. We might as well get good at it."
    ~ Adam Jensen, one of Deus Ex Human Revolution's endings

    This quote comes to mind when I think of the concept in the first paragraph. Seems appropriate, especially after all us players have done in, on, and for Azeroth.

    Update: My concept could be thought as an overhaul of the talent system, and making it a cross between the pre-MoP talent system and the Legion Artifact weapon system. You would eventually get access to all of your passive traits by level cap.
    Last edited by Xorzor; 2021-07-25 at 12:38 PM.

  10. #4610
    Discussing Legion is pointless
    They had 1+ extra year to develop that because they cut WoD short, that's not gonna happen ever again especially not with the constant budget cuts

  11. #4611
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    It's almost like they tried to solve this with Artifact Power or something.
    No they didn't. Artifact power is just another vertical progression system. If we've kept our artifact weapons and they build on them in BfA and Shadowlands instead of trashing the artifact system to replace it with Azerite, then yes it would have been horizontal progression.

    By the way, at this point Blizzard has massive issues in general and I am sure it will have a very negative impact on the development of WoW as well. This is sad, but that's how rotten the company is. Curious to see how they'll continue this game.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  12. #4612
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    No they didn't. Artifact power is just another vertical progression system. If we've kept our artifact weapons and they build on them in BfA and Shadowlands instead of trashing the artifact system to replace it with Azerite, then yes it would have been horizontal progression.

    By the way, at this point Blizzard has massive issues in general and I am sure it will have a very negative impact on the development of WoW as well. This is sad, but that's how rotten the company is. Curious to see how they'll continue this game.
    You know they are out of touch when they got rid of the Artifacts.

    Regarding your comment Nyel, I'm also curious to see what they can doin the future because as it stands right now with everything, they gonna have to make a impossible deliver.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    No. On these forums any updates mean an expansion hint.
    Wrathin comes back? Dragon expansion clearly!
    LK part of a quest? Wotlk 2 clearly!
    Sylvanas working with a death master? Shadowlands clearly!

    At the point we're headed for Wrath of the Shdowlands Dragon Isles Lich and tinkers.

  13. #4613
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    No they didn't. Artifact power is just another vertical progression system. If we've kept our artifact weapons and they build on them in BfA and Shadowlands instead of trashing the artifact system to replace it with Azerite, then yes it would have been horizontal progression.

    By the way, at this point Blizzard has massive issues in general and I am sure it will have a very negative impact on the development of WoW as well. This is sad, but that's how rotten the company is. Curious to see how they'll continue this game.
    It wouldn't be horizontal progression either. Horizontal usually means unlocking more options without increasing the individual pieces. The runes for skills/spells in diablo are horizontal, just tacking another system atop another or expanding one system further would still be vertical progression.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  14. #4614
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    give me the skin system without the power system
    Lol, you have this literally now.

  15. #4615
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Lol, you have this literally now.
    A very, very poor version of that maybe.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  16. #4616
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Lol, you have this literally now.
    I guess??

    Do you mean anima or renown??
    Because anima is 100% cosmetic and I love it but that’s not really the replacement

    Renown has power attached so it’s the same

  17. #4617
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    A very, very poor version of that maybe.
    Shit ton of mounts, pets, weapons, armors, toys, special cloaks are poor replacement for just weapons. Oh sorry - very, very poor. Got ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    I guess??

    Do you mean anima or renown??
    Because anima is 100% cosmetic and I love it but that’s not really the replacement

    Renown has power attached so it’s the same
    Not "I guess". Covenants in general (cosmetics rewards for anima/renown + activities, like hunting mirrors for one Venthyr armor or doing abomination weeklies for Necro) are literally it. We have less weapon skins, but whole system is expanded.

    One thing (almost everyone) miss are challenge skins, right now only Kyrians have something similar.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2021-07-26 at 12:56 PM.

  18. #4618
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Shit ton of mounts, pets, weapons, armors, toys, special cloaks are poor replacement for just weapons. Oh sorry - very, very poor. Got ya.
    Sadly you don't have cosmetics without power at all, as you have to chose between power and cosmetics undless you are lucky and it happens to be on the same covenant, which is a 1 in 4 chance. The progression might be seperated but you are still locked into it because of an asinine "choice".
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  19. #4619
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Sadly you don't have cosmetics without power at all, as you have to chose between power and cosmetics undless you are lucky and it happens to be on the same covenant, which is a 1 in 4 chance. The progression might be seperated but you are still locked into it because of an asinine "choice".
    Yeah, that's separate issue. Although in long run power aspect will be gone. Also in Legion 'order hall' pie was even more divided, without much hope it will change in the future.

  20. #4620
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Yeah, that's separate issue. Although in long run power aspect will be gone. Also in Legion 'order hall' pie was even more divided, without much hope it will change in the future.
    I mean there was a clear advantage in orderhalls being made to fit your class and not just a whim of the tail end of current balancing favoring your cosmetic choice.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

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