1. #4921
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I suppose that is also where the question of whatever is happening in the Maw comes up. Zovaal does unquestionably look like the Maw, and the default setting for Oribos is sending souls there instead, so I suppose reforging what I then assume to be the Maw sigil to either be as easy as having the Primus find whatever altar exists in Torghast, all the way to finding a failsafe left behind by the first ones.

    X.2 patches are with only two exceptions about dealing with a secondary threat. My initial guesses were the Drust, but in hindsight I wonder if it might be the Devourers instead. In this case 9.2 would take place somewhere in the in-between, wherever the Devourer nest is. Wherever the First ones had their failsafe mechanisms does seem to be a fitting place to have a race of beings that feed on Anima.
    Yeah, it looks like place that become Maw was original afterlife for everybody and Arbiter + Oribos are constructs that manually stop stream of souls and send them in different directions.

  2. #4922
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It still makes no sense to search for it. We know where it is.
    We know where one area is that he keeps special souls that happened to have Uther's soul fragment. We don't know that is the only spot where he keeps special souls, nor did we really explore that much of that area. There could be a lot more that we missed.

    Even if that turns out to be the only spot, we still don't know where the other pieces are. If Arthas' soul fragment taken by Frostmourne is in there, that doesn't mean we know where in the Maw the rest of him is, or even if it is still recoverable. There's still plenty to hunt for & plenty more to recover should we so choose.

  3. #4923
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Yeah, it looks like place that become Maw was original afterlife for everybody and Arbiter + Oribos are constructs that manually stop stream of souls and send them in different directions.
    I think the original design was even simpler, it was just another plane of existence that exists as another parallel layer like the dream. I mean souls don't go straight to the shadowlands proper, they go there after Kyrian's pick them up. Afaik they didn't remove the shadowlands as part of shamanism and death knight lore where creatures roam and you can find the spirits of the deceased, while it still being like Azeroth. Normally they just linger where their corpse was, as we've seen countless times. Maybe there is a reason for ordering it other than the self-serving accumulation of anima, but it feels like the whole shadowlands thing was just a giant redistribution scheme, take anima from the home worlds and collect it in other places to create "afterlives". The whole idea that they use their exp (anima) accumulated during their lives and form new bodies with it seems weird in the first place. Is that something that only happens in the 4 special places that are part of the machine of death? What about the other places where souls are send? What happens to stripped souls over time? Do they exist in perpetuity in that form or do they eventually fade into nothingness like the failed ones in the maw/revendreth?

    Some of it was probably just not thought through, like the representation of the stream of souls in oribos as we see it ingame and the role of Kyrians as described in quests and in lore. The whole expansion is essentially just the fault of Kyrians being retards, because they keep shipping souls to the maw, and they STILL haven't stopped doing that.
    Last edited by Felis igneus; 2021-08-05 at 09:29 PM.
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  4. #4924
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    We know where one area is that he keeps special souls that happened to have Uther's soul fragment. We don't know that is the only spot where he keeps special souls, nor did we really explore that much of that area. There could be a lot more that we missed.

    Even if that turns out to be the only spot, we still don't know where the other pieces are. If Arthas' soul fragment taken by Frostmourne is in there, that doesn't mean we know where in the Maw the rest of him is, or even if it is still recoverable. There's still plenty to hunt for & plenty more to recover should we so choose.
    Frostmourne didn't take a fragment of Arthas' soul. It took the whole thing. I have my doubts Arthas is going to play any significant role anyway. As for the room, as far as we can tell all significant souls are present there.

  5. #4925
    Possible threats still on Azeroth
    Naga
    Twilight cult
    Like 3 dragon enemies (remaining twilight, remaining void, infinite, possibly the other defeated forces like chromatus and galakrond because death is meaningless)
    Scarlet crusade remnants
    Elementals (I didn’t play a shaman in legion so idk any of the story I just know the expeditions lore items)
    And whatever is under the sun well

    I think that’s the possible things for 10.0

    I think 9.2 will be a bunch of “Sylvanas must travel this path and tyrande will travel with her and decide her fate” garbage while we figure out the reason why the jailer needed Anduin (the maw cutscene when the jailer captured him pointed to him having a purpose)
    We will save Anduin and Sylvanas will sacrifice herself to do it
    Probably an 8 boss raid
    Anduin final boss
    Nathanos as another
    The mawsworn and helya
    Dreadlords
    Some kind of jailer fight where we barely deal with him and it’s mostly things like soldiers and dogs

    New catch up
    Covenant restrictions lessened but not removed because “meaningful choice”
    Tazavesh added to m+ which means dead keys because of the first boss in wing 2
    New zone in the sepulcher
    More campaign covering the history of the jailer and the first ones
    Big reveal that Azeroth is a first one

    9.3
    The finale

  6. #4926
    I am Murloc! Fahrad Wagner's Avatar
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    Listing all the potential leads for new expansions we have thought so far, we have:

    - Return to Azeroth / Old World Revamp: this one is tricky because as discussed before it would require a lot of resources from Blizzard, however, they have been updating tons of assets over the past few years which could be easily reused, so there is that. The context is also important because this could happen either after we defeat the Jailer and perhaps enjoy a period of peace, or after we lose to the Jailer and some kind of reality reset happens.

    - Dragon Isles / Time Travel: a whole expansion about Dragon Flights, Aspects and Wrathion where we explore the sacred archipelago home to the various dragonflights. This would probably focus on the Infinite Dragonflight as a main threat, perhaps messing up with the timeline or building up to either Galakrond or Murozond as the final boss. This could also tie in with Shadowlands, since if the Jailer messes with reality, we might investigate on a way to fix it with the help of the Dragonflight (basically the final Avengers plot, with a WoW flavour).

    - The Other Side of Azeroth / Brand-new Continent: completely free rein expansion, the developers could come up with anything they would want to, a mysterious titan-shaped continents hidden on the other side of the globe emerges and the Horde and Alliance send their forces their to investigate. I do not see this happening soon, especially since it doesn't tie up easily with Shadowlands and its potential endings, but I think this will happen in the future, juste like Mists of Pandaria did.

    - Journey to Azeroth's Core / Nerubian Empire: this expansion would focus on exploring the cave systems and inner core of Azeroth, and would focus on the Nerubian Empire, Undermine, and the World Soul of Azeroth. If the Jailer wants Azeroth for himself, our next journey might be to venture to the core of our planet to awaken Azeroth and save her before it is too late. The main issue with that plot however is that it may be redundant with BfA and Magni telling us to heal Azeroth's wooooooons.

    - Light VS Void / Invasion of the Light: this expansion would focus on the rise to power of Turalyon, perhaps the return of Yrel, and it would polarise forces between the Void and the Light. Anything could happen here, it could take place in the plane of Light, the plane of the Void, both... or even on Azeroth. This has been teased a lot over the past expansions, so the question is more about WHEN it will be coming rather than IF it will be coming.

    - Return of the Naga / Rise of Naz'jatar: this expansion would focus on the Naga and their attempt to conquer the whole world. Queen Azshara could easily use the power of some ancient artifact to exerce her revenge on the mortal races. Now, I don't see this one happening anytime soon but let us not forget Azshara is now roaming free in the oceans, with her minions surely still faithful to the eternal queen. Raising Nazjatar to the surface would provoke a giant tide across the coastlines of the world, leaving many nations vulnerable, and this is still an interesting plot to explore.

    - K'aresh / Homeworld of the Etherals: this expansion would focus on the broken world of K'aresh and its long time fan-favourite race: Etherals. This would probably tie in perfectly within a Cosmic Forces expansion, and would give the players a nice throwback to the Burning Crusade era.

    Anyone with any other likely plot? Besides, Blizzard being Blizzard, the next expansion will probably be a mix of at least two of the above. Just like BfA was basically South Seas X Old Gods X Faction War. I really wish they would would stop mixing so many themes together and focus on making one coherent storyline and expansion but... that is just my opinion.

    What do you guys think?

  7. #4927
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    If Bolvar's visions and the memories of the Runecarver are canon then we certainly know that the Jailer uses these shards to make big bad weapons.
    Honestly, how could it ever be worse than Sargeras stabbing Azeroth? I mean that didn’t even alter the face of the world, it just let it sprinkle some juicy Azerite. I find it very hard to believe that Zovaal wants to make weapons and that’s his goal. For me that sounds incredibly silly, but maybe that’s why it’s likely.

    Unless the weapon is something that completely changes reality (what kind of device or weapon could do that anyway?), I find it hard to believe. Or is Zovaal crafting his own Infinity Gauntlet? Anyway, I’m pretty sure it will be a major missstep for the Warcraft universe, but after Shadowlands this seems to be expected.
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  8. #4928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Honestly, how could it ever be worse than Sargeras stabbing Azeroth? I mean that didn’t even alter the face of the world, it just let it sprinkle some juicy Azerite. I find it very hard to believe that Zovaal wants to make weapons and that’s his goal. For me that sounds incredibly silly, but maybe that’s why it’s likely.

    Unless the weapon is something that completely changes reality (what kind of device or weapon could do that anyway?), I find it hard to believe. Or is Zovaal crafting his own Infinity Gauntlet? Anyway, I’m pretty sure it will be a major missstep for the Warcraft universe, but after Shadowlands this seems to be expected.
    Why are you so negative in all your posts? If you don't like Shadowlands that's ok, but don't lurk and spread bad mood. The Shadowlands lore isn't so bad at all, and it's finally something new - which we didn't get since MoP. The only thing we would have needed beforehand was some kind of chronicles book to read up on the lore instead of getting it weirdly spoon fed in the game. But well I guess that's what the Grimoire will be, kinda.

  9. #4929
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Honestly, how could it ever be worse than Sargeras stabbing Azeroth?
    Does it need to be?
    We know the shards can be used to create mournblades, we know those shards contain souls.
    And who knows what else he can do with them.

    That alone should be enough reason for us to give a fuck about them.
    Tools and weaponry don't need to be some fabric of reality tearing devices so we show any modicum of interest in them.

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  10. #4930
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Why are you so negative in all your posts? If you don't like Shadowlands that's ok, but don't lurk and spread bad mood. The Shadowlands lore isn't so bad at all, and it's finally something new - which we didn't get since MoP. The only thing we would have needed beforehand was some kind of chronicles book to read up on the lore instead of getting it weirdly spoon fed in the game. But well I guess that's what the Grimoire will be, kinda.
    Please look at the other thread where there’s a poll, for 2/3 the Shadowlands storyline / lore is the worst in WoWs 17 years of existence (WoD vs Shadowlands and WoD was always considered to be the worst up to this point). It’s not me being overly negative (I am though, because as I said, the Shadowlands storyline is cringeworthy and absolutely silly), it’s the horrible writing which a ton of players have issues with and ruins their experience in this once superb fantasy universe.

    But that’s not the point here. It’s about the goals of the Jailer and his actions. Unfortunately they’re plagued by the same issues as the entire Shadowlands lore, tons of retconning, lack of logical actions, coherence and cohesiveness. I mean, if you like it, enjoy it. And if you like it the negative opinions shouldn’t concern you at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Does it need to be?
    We know the shards can be used to create mournblades, we know those shards contain souls.
    And who knows what else he can do with them.

    That alone should be enough reason for us to give a fuck about them.
    Tools and weaponry don't need to be some fabric of reality tearing devices so we show any modicum of interest in them.
    I think it does? I mean he’s pictured as the uber super villain. And all he wants to do is craft… weapons? Uhm. Okay. Unless those weapons contain some unimaginable reality twisting powers, they’re still just weapons. Again, there’s still a gigantic sword stuck in Azeroth which we little care about. But now we should care about usual weaponry made by the Jailer? Even if they’re domination weapons or whatever, if that’s Zovaal‘s endgame I don’t really know what to say.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2021-08-06 at 12:18 PM.
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  11. #4931
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Honestly, how could it ever be worse than Sargeras stabbing Azeroth? I mean that didn’t even alter the face of the world, it just let it sprinkle some juicy Azerite. I find it very hard to believe that Zovaal wants to make weapons and that’s his goal. For me that sounds incredibly silly, but maybe that’s why it’s likely.

    Unless the weapon is something that completely changes reality (what kind of device or weapon could do that anyway?), I find it hard to believe. Or is Zovaal crafting his own Infinity Gauntlet? Anyway, I’m pretty sure it will be a major missstep for the Warcraft universe, but after Shadowlands this seems to be expected.
    He litterally used one of these shards to forge a mourneblade that can split souls. Unless you are a DK and want one for your collection, this kind of weapon is a big deal. Not to mention he kept these shards in case they could be usefull. There is 0 reason to believe he will use them for anything other than evil. Any character that can rub 2 brain cells together would have denied him that chance, especially since we weren't under pressure.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
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  12. #4932
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Anyone knows who those other souls belong in the thorgast uther endboss room?
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  13. #4933
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Anyone knows who those other souls belong in the thorgast uther endboss room?
    I haven't done the quest itself yet but you mean the ones named stuff like "The Betrayed Father" and the like, right?

    Going off the names as well as some comments on wowhead:

    -The Betrayed Father - Terenas Meethil
    -The Blood Queen - Lana'thel
    -The Grand Magister - Belo'vir
    -The Guardian of Naxxramas - Sapphiron, perhaps (described as a guard for Kel'thuzad in Naxxramas)
    -The Archmagus Mentor - Antonidas
    -The Golden King - Anasterian Sunstrider
    -The Holy Lifebringer - Halahk the Lifebringer (apparently? Commenter says its from the Frost DK artifact weapon questline)
    -Many Forgotten Victims - Various peoples killed by Arthas with Frostmourne.

  14. #4934
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I haven't done the quest itself yet but you mean the ones named stuff like "The Betrayed Father" and the like, right?

    Going off the names as well as some comments on wowhead:

    -The Betrayed Father - Terenas Meethil
    -The Blood Queen - Lana'thel
    -The Grand Magister - Belo'vir
    -The Guardian of Naxxramas - Sapphiron, perhaps (described as a guard for Kel'thuzad in Naxxramas)
    -The Archmagus Mentor - Antonidas
    -The Golden King - Anasterian Sunstrider
    -The Holy Lifebringer - Halahk the Lifebringer (apparently? Commenter says its from the Frost DK artifact weapon questline)
    -Many Forgotten Victims - Various peoples killed by Arthas with Frostmourne.
    yes =) little screen record
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  15. #4935
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    yes =) little screen record
    I love this
    The writers can do vague stuff easy and well
    Once they go further though…

  16. #4936
    I do have to admit that little nuggets like this have kept an ember of hope for WoW’s lore alive in me.

  17. #4937
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    -The Grand Magister - Belo'vir
    I would put Dar'Khan Drathir here actually. He was personally killed by Arthas while Belo'vir was left for dead and killed by the Scourge.
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  18. #4938
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    I would put Dar'Khan Drathir here actually. He was personally killed by Arthas while Belo'vir was left for dead and killed by the Scourge.
    Maybe, but Dar'khan was just a Magister, Belo'vir was the Grand Magister (position now held by Rommath).

    And he was injured by Frostmourne prior to dying, too.

  19. #4939
    I must say I have more fun in Korthia (+ rest 9.1 outdoor) than I thought. Lots of rares, no abysmal drop rates like Mechagon spider, reasonable reputation speed (unlike 8.3 that took months and months of casual playing), gimmicks like new tools from archivist reputation or puzzles for mounts, reasonable speed of gearing alts to 220, shit ton of Anima that make you feel like you actually progressing in covenant. Only big cons are bland environment and no hopes for flying.

    If we count campaign (that's imo best patch storyline since 7.1, even despite NF chapter), I would put it a 3rd best, behind Nazjatar+Mechagon and Isle of Thunder (yes, above all Legion stuff, BS and Argus were nothing special from gameplay perspective).

  20. #4940
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    no abysmal drop rates like Mechagon spider
    I've been trying to get my hands on any of the covenant drop mounts since the beginning and have killed the repsective rares daily on 4 characters.. not a single one so far.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
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