Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nagawithlegs]

The Uther conversation points to Sylvanas not being FORGIVEN, because it shows that it was still Sylvanas the whole time instead of some Bad Half.

She’ll do something good at the end of course, but she definitely won’t be forgiven for all the bad she did and her successors in Calia and Voss point to her being gone for good from Azeroth. Not to mention no lore reason Horde would ever accept her again.

It’s like Turalyon on the throne: Blizzard didn’t set this up just to have Turalyon give the throne back when Anduin comes home. They set up plot threads and follow through with them most of the time. Vol’jin Warchief is a notable example of this NOT happening but considering how many players are fatigued by Sylvanas and Anduin I’m pretty sure they will not be in the next expansion/both will be dead or incapacitated. Maybe Anduin in a coma?

Edit: Though I do have to wonder... the soul gem is kind of pointless, because Sylvanas realized the Jailer fucked her over BEFORE the gem came out. So I guess the reveal was mostly to show the Jailer had corrupted her since she was killed.

Also surprised nobody has mentioned that the Uther ghost in Vanilla/ Wrath is now called into question. Now that we know it wasn’t his good half, was it actually real?

[Dracullus]

Beloved my ass. She was consistently getting bad press since WotLK, BfA increased that thousandfold.

I think she was still fan favourite when she appeared in Legion cinematic. Blizzard did pretty good job with switching opinion of playerbase and preparing her to be raid boss. That's why it was surprising in culminating moment they didn't have guts to chop her head off and create big katharsis moment.

[Nagawithlegs]

I think she was still fan favourite when she appeared in Legion cinematic. Blizzard did pretty good job with switching opinion of playerbase and preparing her to be raid boss. That's why it was surprising in culminating moment they didn't have guts to chop her head off and create big katharsis moment.

Likely because they want her and Arthas to get back at the guy who ruined their lives (Jailer) instead of having the players remove her before she can do that.

It’s definitely another example of the “players don’t matter the most” in Shadowlands (see also Elune) and ironically I wonder if it has to do with the backlash to the Champion of Azeroth plot. Though considering how much people wanted to kill her/how unhappy people are IRL and are in need of gratification, it probably wasn’t a great idea even if Sylvanas and Arthas killing the death god who is responsible for WC3 makes sense on paper.

When you’re making a product what matters most: the long term, or the customer?

[draugril]

All these little callbacks to Uther and Thrall and the like are only serving to remind me of when I actually enjoyed the overall lore of this franchise. I don't want to have to sift through all this dreck to for a few small nuggets of enjoyment.

[Nagawithlegs]

All these little callbacks to Uther and Thrall and the like are only serving to remind me of when I actually enjoyed the overall lore of this franchise. I don't want to have to sift through all this dreck to for a few small nuggets of enjoyment.

This whole expansion is a "break" from Warcraft as a whole save for blips like Sylvanas. Part of the reason I think its a prequel to a soft reboot.

This effectively ends the WC3 stories. No more Arthas and Sylvanas after this or their ruler. No more loose ends from WC3 like Old Gods or the Legion. It's all gone.

Can focus on stuff like Light, Void Lords and Azshara.

[edave22]

Sylvanas has been evil since Vanilla WoW. She doesn't deserve a redemption as there is nothing to redeem.

The only reason Sylvanas would get a redemption is because she's Danusers waifu and he's obsessed over her. He should get therapy if you ask me, that is not normal behaviour.

Unconfirmed leaks say Blizzard is setting Sylvannas up to replace the Arbiter. Seeing as how the jailer used to be the arbiter it wouldn't be a redemption per se but it would take her out of the league of baddies she's currently in.

[ExiHext]

Unconfirmed leaks say Blizzard is setting Sylvannas up to replace the Arbiter. Seeing as how the jailer used to be the arbiter it wouldn't be a redemption per se but it would take her out of the league of baddies she's currently in.

That's no leak, that's fanfiction. Again: Sylvanas isn't CAPABLE of being the arbiter. Sylvanas is a mere mortal. Undead, but mortal. How should a mortal being judge all the souls coming through? It has to be either an Eternal One or a contruct of the Eternal Ones. I don't believe that Blizz will give Sylvanas god-like powers.

[Nagawithlegs]

Unconfirmed leaks say Blizzard is setting Sylvannas up to replace the Arbiter. Seeing as how the jailer used to be the arbiter it wouldn't be a redemption per se but it would take her out of the league of baddies she's currently in.

Sylvanas Arbiter is a rage-bait theory with no standing in the current story besides “lol its bad and Blizz is bad”.

Uthers comment this patch broadcasts that the soul split doesn’t change who you are. Sylvanas hasnt done anything to earn that Arbiter spot.... if she’ll become ANYTHING , its the new Jailer. But i doubt that too.

[Cosmic Janitor]

That's no leak, that's fanfiction. Again: Sylvanas isn't CAPABLE of being the arbiter. Sylvanas is a mere mortal. Undead, but mortal. How should a mortal being judge all the souls coming through? It has to be either an Eternal One or a contruct of the Eternal Ones. I don't believe that Blizz will give Sylvanas god-like powers.

Easy, my guess is:
Sylvanas becomes the leader of the maw, because she is a semi-living being that came in touch for an extended period of time with the Jailer's powers, which she channeled for a long time. That gives her a connection to the anima of the maw. She helps recreate the sigil because of this unique connection (and some McGuffin), essentially exactly the same how Revedreth can have a sigil without Denathrius. Since we need the sigil she will give it to the Primus to open the portal, later the sigil will be used to fix the Roomba Arbiter, while she will attone for her sins by staying in the maw, which in turn she is now effectively the leader of, due to her strong connection to it - practically like Renethal. There might also be a Highlander component after we beat the Janitor's ass which cements her role as the new Jailer who will watch over the Janitor.

So she ends up as a demi-god like Bwonsamdi with lots of power at her fingers, but in exile in the maw as part of her redemption, while we get an Arbiter that fixes the Shadowlands.

Edit: They might also recalibrate/upgrade the Arbiter to include a choice based component in the sorting process, to remedy Sylvanas' (and future people's) pet pieve, like the Bastion story conclusion did for Bastion itself. There, now we have the fixed "good" shadowlands that makes everyone happy.

[ExiHext]

Easy, my guess is:
Sylvanas becomes the leader of the maw, because she is a semi-living being that came in touch for an extended period of time with the Jailer's powers, which she channeled for a long time. That gives her a connection to the anima of the maw. She helps recreate the sigil because of this unique connection (and some McGuffin), essentially exactly the same how Revedreth can have a sigil without Denathrius. Since we need the sigil she will give it to the Primus to open the portal, later the sigil will be used to fix the Roomba Arbiter, while she will attone for her sins by staying in the maw, which in turn she is now effectively the leader of, due to her strong connection to it - practically like Renethal. There might also be a Highlander component after we beat the Janitor's ass which cements her role as the new Jailer who will watch over the Janitor.

So she ends up as a demi-god like Bwonsamdi with lots of power at her fingers, but in exile in the maw as part of her redemption, while we get an Arbiter that fixes the Shadowlands.

Edit: They might also recalibrate/upgrade the Arbiter to include a choice based component in the sorting process, to remedy Sylvanas' (and future people's) pet pieve, like the Bastion story conclusion did for Bastion itself. There, now we have the fixed "good" shadowlands that makes everyone happy.

My guess: there will be no maw after SL. There was too much talk about how cruel this place is and that nobody deserves to be there. That would also solve the problem of the souls that were sent there without a cause.

[Cosmic Janitor]

My guess: there will be no maw after SL. There was too much talk about how cruel this place is and that nobody deserves to be there. That would also solve the problem of the souls that were sent there without a cause.

But there absolutely are people that deserve to be there, unless you just want to keep them in venthyr cages for all eternity with their shitty security or downright extinguish them permanently, you are kinda stuck with the worst of the worst and how to deal with them.

Which poses the question: Why have a maw in the first place in the original design? What was the purpose of it when there are simply more efficient ways to deal with this?

[Nagawithlegs]

I'd say that if there's a small possibility that Zovaal is something so powerful that he can't be killed, Sylvanas may be assigned to be stuck in the Maw with him as HIS Jailer.

But I think Sylvanas is more likely going to suicide and somehow kill Zovaal that way.

[Black Rider]

Exactly, old content remaining relevant is always a plus! And I hope they keep providing in that department.

I wish Blizz had some new mechanics for timewalking bosses.
Also regarding old content, they could always do something like Gadgetzan update in HS. Or some fun, small hubs to know what is happening in the old world, also update outdated zones but...

[Kiivar86]

I'd say that if there's a small possibility that Zovaal is something so powerful that he can't be killed, Sylvanas may be assigned to be stuck in the Maw with him as HIS Jailer.

That would just be a repeat of Illidan and Sargeras. I'd say I don't see that happening but repeating shit is something they do quite a bit so...

[Nagawithlegs]

I don't even understand why there is a maw in this afterlife. If someone cannot be redeemed, zap them into soul ash. There, no more worrying about them possibly breaking out in the future.

Yeah I can see them killing the concept of Maw with the argument bring it just creates more people like Zovaal.

[Makabreska]

I don't even understand why there is a maw in this afterlife. If someone cannot be redeemed, zap them into soul ash. There, no more worrying about them possibly breaking out in the future.

Because eternal torment as a punishment is a thing.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I don't even understand why there is a maw in this afterlife. If someone cannot be redeemed, zap them into soul ash. There, no more worrying about them possibly breaking out in the future.

There is definitely something missing here. They probably originally wanted to do something like Supernatural and make souls extremely special, night indestructable, but forgot it along the way like so many other things which leads to the raving plotholes we keep seeing.

The way souls are treated certainly make the maw seem superflous, because even if it didn't originally existed and they just decided to use it after Zovaal was imprisioned there, that still leaves the question why they would feed him souls in the first place..? Was all this ment just to sustain him with anima via the most contrived way possible, because he is their "brother"? But why is the maw the default of the Arbiter instead of just randomly sorting souls to other realms and tade them later?

[Nagawithlegs]

I think the best punishment would be them ceasing to exist. It seems like a petty mortal idea to torment people's souls.

Except some characters, especially in the warcraft universe, would see “true death” as a good alternative and would just peace out after they’ve lived a nice and horrible life. The fear of super hell is a good motivation that keeps death meaningful.

What’s going to happen with the Maw and Oribos is interesting as we haven’t seen many candidates for replacements in questing... though I do wonder if that “Jailer” art where was an old man was in fact the Primus with Zovaals essence. Maybe he becomes the new Arbiter?

Or, the cycle of death is completely changed somehow. Considering the Kyrian order had a radical change it may be possible.

[Soon-TM]

That would just be a repeat of Illidan and Sargeras. I'd say I don't see that happening but repeating shit is something they do quite a bit so...

After BfA being almost a carbon copy of MoP, with SL clearly treading on the wake of SC2 plot... My hopes aren't exactly high.

[Makabreska]

I think the best punishment would be them ceasing to exist. It seems like a petty mortal idea to torment people's souls.

I mean, that's how every other IRL religion operates, and many things in fiction are based on IRL. Also, destroying souls means no chances of seeing old Warcraft chars that got the punishment.