1. #57221
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    How is Umbric?
    Whom is Umbric?

  2. #57222
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Whom is Umbric?
    Whence is Umbric?
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #57223
    Ya'll are stealing all the good questions for Umbric, I'll have to sit and think and get back to you with one in a few months

    It'll be an Um-brick Joke

  4. #57224
    Keeping up with the trend that Blizzard established (perhaps not intended, though) of killing off characters that are featured both in an expansion's cinematic and also in the expansion's story.


    In WoD, Garrosh. In Legion, Varian. In BfA, Saurfang. In Shadowlands, Krexus... but that wasn't the actual SL cinematic. I could go as far to say the Lich King as a concept was killed off, but you know...


    So now with DF's cinematic it is mostly just "Stone Bro" and Alexstrasza. One of them is definitely biting the dust by the end of the expansion... right? Maybe both?
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2022-05-14 at 02:13 PM.

  5. #57225
    Pandaren Monk Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duoberus View Post
    Keeping up with the trend that Blizzard established (perhaps not intended, though) of killing off characters that are featured both in an expansion's cinematic and also in the expansion's story.


    In WoD, Garrosh. In Legion, Varian. In BfA, Saurfang. In Shadowlands, Krexus... but that wasn't the actual SL cinematic. I could go as far to say the Lich King as a concept was killed off, but you know...


    So now with DF's cinematic it is mostly just "Stone Bro" and Alexstrasza. One of them is definitely biting the dust by the end of the expansion... right? Maybe both?
    Or none of both. Dragonflight is the first time Steve can show us what he can do with lore and Shadowlands was the last expansion tainted by Afrasiabi's influence. I doubt they will kill of Alextrasza nor Stony Tony (that's his nick name, not stone bro ... ewww .... stone bro sounds super toxic).

  6. #57226
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Or none of both. Dragonflight is the first time Steve can show us what he can do with lore and Shadowlands was the last expansion tainted by Afrasiabi's influence. I doubt they will kill of Alextrasza nor Stony Tony (that's his nick name, not stone bro ... ewww .... stone bro sounds super toxic).
    That and well its just coincidence and well, characters don't need to be killed off randomly or that fast. Its a waste of potential. (RIP Son of Saurfang all the way back in Wrath).
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  7. #57227
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duoberus View Post
    In BfA, Saurfang. In Shadowlands, Krexus... but that wasn't the actual SL cinematic.
    Neither was Saurfangs little cinematic sob story, the CGI trailer was the one set in Lordaeron.

    Mops trailer children are all alive, same for BfA and Shadowlands.
    There is no reason to assume anyone in the DF cinematic is gonna die.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2022-05-14 at 02:38 PM.



  8. #57228
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Or none of both. Dragonflight is the first time Steve can show us what he can do with lore and Shadowlands was the last expansion tainted by Afrasiabi's influence. I doubt they will kill of Alextrasza nor Stony Tony (that's his nick name, not stone bro ... ewww .... stone bro sounds super toxic).
    Trying to pin the blame on Afrasiabi is still kind of ridiculous in my views, and just feels like copium.
    9.2 was 100% done by Danuser & Co, and it was still eurgh. Hate him all you like as a person (he deserves it), but Afrasiabi has done some really memorable story lines for the game. Garrosh for example is still beloved by the community, and Legion had an okay story which didn't ruffle many feathers.

  9. #57229
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    Trying to pin the blame on Afrasiabi is still kind of ridiculous in my views, and just feels like copium.
    9.2 was 100% done by Danuser & Co, and it was still eurgh. Hate him all you like as a person (he deserves it), but Afrasiabi has done some really memorable story lines for the game. Garrosh for example is still beloved by the community, and Legion had an okay story which didn't ruffle many feathers.
    And he also threw Teldrassil to the flame with not much planning. So Afrasiabi is not some writing god and I'm not gonna damn Danuser easily, this forum does way too much of it and for f's sake stop using the word copium, its overused.
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  10. #57230
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    And he also threw Teldrassil to the flame with not much planning. So Afrasiabi is not some writing god and I'm not gonna damn Danuser easily, this forum does way too much of it and for f's sake stop using the word copium, its overused.
    Don't take words out of my mouth, I never said he was a "writing god".
    And I'm not gonna stop using copium, even if it is overused.

  11. #57231
    Pandaren Monk Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    Trying to pin the blame on Afrasiabi is still kind of ridiculous in my views, and just feels like copium.
    9.2 was 100% done by Danuser & Co, and it was still eurgh. Hate him all you like as a person (he deserves it), but Afrasiabi has done some really memorable story lines for the game. Garrosh for example is still beloved by the community, and Legion had an okay story which didn't ruffle many feathers.
    9.2 was awesome though? We finally got back Sylvanas and honestly, the Zereth Mortis lore is actually quite cool. And! They didn't killed off beloved characters. The only bad thing about Shadowlands was the content draughts and the lack of exploration of Zoovals background. Funnily enough, the ending was implied from the start - Sylvanas always said they are doing this for the bigger good, so no clue why people are suddenly surprised. Yes, the Sepulcher finale was too short and missed an epilogue but we got that with the Judgement of Sylvie and we also had the awesome Anduin cinematic a week before.

    Btw, I wouldn't be surprised if Danuser actually saved Aszhara from getting killed off. Afrasiabi seemed to like to kill any cool characters afterall.

  12. #57232
    Yeah you'll find that most people in this forum at least were not looking to finally get back Sylvanas.

  13. #57233
    Pandaren Monk Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    Trying to pin the blame on Afrasiabi is still kind of ridiculous in my views, and just feels like copium.
    9.2 was 100% done by Danuser & Co, and it was still eurgh. Hate him all you like as a person (he deserves it), but Afrasiabi has done some really memorable story lines for the game. Garrosh for example is still beloved by the community, and Legion had an okay story which didn't ruffle many feathers.
    Garrosh? GARROSH? Garrosh had a good story in Cataclysm, true. MoP completely raped his character though just to make him a villain. WoD did manage to redeem him just to get him killed off though.
    Last edited by Lady Atia; 2022-05-14 at 02:46 PM.

  14. #57234
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    9.2 was awesome though? We finally got back Sylvanas and honestly, the Zereth Mortis lore is actually quite cool. And! They didn't killed off beloved characters. The only bad thing about Shadowlands was the content draughts and the lack of exploration of Zoovals background. Funnily enough, the ending was implied from the start - Sylvanas always said they are doing this for the bigger good, so no clue why people are suddenly surprised. Yes, the Sepulcher finale was too short and missed an epilogue but we got that with the Judgement of Sylvie and we also had the awesome Anduin cinematic a week before.

    Btw, I wouldn't be surprised if Danuser actually saved Aszhara from getting killed off. Afrasiabi seemed to like to kill any cool characters afterall.
    I respect your opinions, and I'm glad you enjoyed it but.. Let's just say much of what you enjoyed wasn't popular with the community.

  15. #57235
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Garrosh? GARROSH? Garrosh had a good story in Cataclysm, true. MoP completely raped his character though just to make him a villain. WoD did manage to redeem his character just to get him killed off though.
    No, his character wasn't ruined. His character went the way it should of. It could of gone different but the signs were already there in Wrath.


    Don't take words out of my mouth, I never said he was a "writing god".
    And I'm not gonna stop using copium, even if it is overused.
    You implied it with how you spoke.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2022-05-14 at 03:11 PM.
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  16. #57236
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    No, his character wasn't ruined. His character went the way it should of. It could of gone different but the signs were already there in Wrath.
    Really for all that I enjoy Stonetalon Garrosh, the Garrosh that challenged Thrall to a Mak'gora instead of attempting any actual discussion back in the Wrath pre-event, the one who completely discounted Saurfang in Borean Tundra and who was in every zone other than Stonetalon in Cata is the same Garrosh of MoP.

  17. #57237
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Really for all that I enjoy Stonetalon Garrosh, the Garrosh that challenged Thrall to a Mak'gora instead of attempting any actual discussion back in the Wrath pre-event, the one who completely discounted Saurfang in Borean Tundra and who was in every zone other than Stonetalon in Cata is the same Garrosh of MoP.
    That's the thing with Stonetalon Garrosh. He's the outlier characterization. Mind you, that could have been the watershed moment that lead them to a different path, but the fact that wasn't followed through, nor resonates with his later -or former- characterization frames it more as a narrative false step.

    It's pretty telling of WoW's narrative cohesion that different writers hold very different versions of the characters and that there's a serious lack of an overseeing editor role.

    Thing is, it's not that uncommon on comic books, and I really feels like WoW borrows, more than anything, from those types of narratives. Different creators with different versions of the characters that conflict each other, with characterizations and motivations that come across as isolated and lacking a cohesive, unified vision.

  18. #57238
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    That's the thing with Stonetalon Garrosh. He's the outlier characterization. Mind you, that could have been the watershed moment that lead them to a different path, but the fact that wasn't followed through, nor resonates with his later -or former- characterization frames it more as a narrative false step.

    It's pretty telling of WoW's narrative cohesion that different writers hold very different versions of the characters and that there's a serious lack of an overseeing editor role.

    Thing is, it's not that uncommon on comic books, and I really feels like WoW borrows, more than anything, from those types of narratives. Different creators with different versions of the characters that conflict each other, with characterizations and motivations that come across as isolated and lacking a cohesive, unified vision.
    I think it probably just shows how poor the oversight is when it comes to lore. Compare it to other fantasy fiction franchises and you can see it's problematic.

  19. #57239
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    No, his character wasn't ruined. His character went the way it should of. It could of gone different but the signs were already there in Wrath.
    That applies to Sylvanas too, yet people still claim Afrasiabi ruined her. Her fall from grace was in the works from the start.

  20. #57240
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    That's the thing with Stonetalon Garrosh. He's the outlier characterization. Mind you, that could have been the watershed moment that lead them to a different path, but the fact that wasn't followed through, nor resonates with his later -or former- characterization frames it more as a narrative false step.

    It's pretty telling of WoW's narrative cohesion that different writers hold very different versions of the characters and that there's a serious lack of an overseeing editor role.

    Thing is, it's not that uncommon on comic books, and I really feels like WoW borrows, more than anything, from those types of narratives. Different creators with different versions of the characters that conflict each other, with characterizations and motivations that come across as isolated and lacking a cohesive, unified vision.
    Also worth noting that according to old interviews, Stonetalon Garrosh was apparently by Afrasiabi, the team had some sort of miscommunication and they then settled on making him more villainous.

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