Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The last 2 years.

MMO-Champion isn't the entire playerbase.

No I'm pretty sure most people felt satisfied with Legion, yes there were complaints during that time, but not to the extent that we have now.

Fel fatigue, Artifact power whining so on and so forth.

[Lady Atia]

No I'm pretty sure most people felt satisfied with Legion, yes there were complaints during that time, but not to the extent that we have now.

Legion suffered the same problems Cataclysm did - both had a really good start but the end felt rushed. Whole Argus could have been it's own Expansion instead of the lame patch we got for it.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Weren't both Legion and BFA done by Afrasiabi? I wouldn't worry about the upcoming lore if the 9.2.5. quests are anything to go by. <3

I mean The Jailor was based on Thanos and they didn't execute on that idea. (Instead forced like 2 reset buttons for the narrative later down the line with the Galactus Villain, The Pattern possibly breaking apart.)

The upcoming long term villain The Jailor warned us about is a Galactus type villain.

The Narrative Team is hyper obsessed with Marvel just like the old devs were obsessed with The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

I mean the entire 9.2 storyline was setting up a completely different cosmos lore structure than what people previously thought beyond the most crackpot lore theorists and us crackpot lore theorists never thought they would go in this direction due to the absurdity and how hard it is to explain to laymen.

Steve Danuser has already confirmed that the ending of Dragonflight will be epic and if "epic" relates to Murozond it could mean that something completely clusterfuck chaosy happens during the Murozond encounter adding another 3rd reset button if they want to.

But, again I think the most likeliest scenario for Dragonflight is Dragon Island for Base Product and then Dragon Island 10.1 which turns into going somewhere else in 10.2 due to the events of 10.1 and then in 10.3 it goes all whacko crazy NASCAR mode like usually where we're all wondering why this happened to us for the 3rd time.

I do not see this narrative team sitting stil on the Dragon Isles. They will try and run at the speed of light no matter the consequences for the product.

[Lady Atia]

I mean The Jailor was based on Thanos and they didn't execute on that idea. (Instead forced like 2 reset buttons for the narrative later down the line with the Galactus Villain, The Pattern possibly breaking apart.)

The upcoming long term villain The Jailor warned us about is a Galactus type villain.

The Narrative Team is hyper obsessed with Marvel just like the old devs were obsessed with The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

I mean the entire 9.2 storyline was setting up a completely different cosmos lore structure than what people previously thought beyond the most crackpot lore theorists and us crackpot lore theorists never thought they would go in this direction due to the absurdity and how hard it is to explain to laymen.

Steve Danuser has already confirmed that the ending of Dragonflight will be epic and if "epic" relates to Murozond it could mean that something completely clusterfuck chaosy happens during the Murozond encounter adding another 3rd reset button if they want to.

But, again I think the most likeliest scenario for Dragonflight is Dragon Island for Base Product and then Dragon Island 10.1 which turns into going somewhere else in 10.2 due to the events of 10.1 and then in 10.3 it goes all whacko crazy NASCAR mode like usually where we're all wondering why this happened to us for the 3rd time.

I do not see this narrative team sitting stil on the Dragon Isles. They will try and run at the speed of light no matter the consequences for the product.

Well, I absolutely love marvel's MCU so I can't see any issues with that.

[Gurahk]

Legion suffered the same problems Cataclysm did - both had a really good start but the end felt rushed. Whole Argus could have been it's own Expansion instead of the lame patch we got for it.

Legion's end is not at all comparable to the end of Cataclysm. Most people disliked the ending of cataclysm due to the lack of new assets, you had a raid which just takes place in WotLK and the bosses were not the greatest.
The Burning Legion arc had been going on for two expansions now, having another expansion would just be absurd.
7.3 itself was great, 3 zones and a conclusion to a saga that most people felt satisfied with. Hell, the only controversial story point was the "chosen one" which got resolved in Argus.

[Alanar]

Well, I absolutely love marvel's MCU so I can't see any issues with that.

Maybe you dont, but not everyone loves mcu, so some may not like it. But isnt that how it always works.

Besides there are people now, that dont even know what lord of the rings is.. its shocking I know.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It was what some people wanted though, they felt Argus could of been an entire expansion. Again the borrowed power stuff was still coming into effect as well and so on. It wasn't all happy day in Legion at least around here. I was satisfied but satisfaction here is rare or almost like a female dwarf.

[Khaza-R]

Honestly I worry a lot about all of the Azeroth story treads cause the mishmash clash of Dragonflight post-launch content being tied to Azeroth lore is a potential worry for me. Again, I just hope the story sticks to Dragonflight for the post-content and then move onto a cosmos story away from Azeroth as Ion told us with his "tick-tock" expansion plan for the team.

Again, I worry a lot about the potential of a Legion or BFA again where the Narrative Team turbos' through stories without care. Things need to take time and fully develop, it cannot continue like this.

I would say there's a very, very small chance the DF story is self-contained and doesn't go somewhere outlandish by the last chapter. But I think we will have to see.

It was very much a hallmark of Afrasiabi to mask his lower quality writing by making things bombastic. This sort of required throwing a ton at the plot in the same way a unrefined chef throws too many things on plate to mask their lack of technical skill. So that's basically IMO why we burned through so much story in a short period of time while he was at the helm.

By contrast, I don't see Danuser and his team repeating this. I think the real issue is that they don't know how to properly develop a plot and think they can write these overly complex narratives without focusing on the basics first. So instead of the story in DF just being bad, it runs the risk of being both bad and boring.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean I just think Galactus is boring from a Comic Book standpoint. An all consuming entity that does it because they have to is so damn hard to make interesting. They could make the Galactus Level Devourer extremely alien looking and go full in on the creep factor with him not even talking but I mean we already tried that with Zovaal. So I don't know, I am hopeful the Devourer plot is on the backburner for a few expansions though.

I am interested in seeing how MCU does him but again the MCU has the time and the place to develop Galactus unlike World of Warcraft where it is all about whether the Production Pipeline can allow the story to unfold or not and if it doesn't they just cut it even if it costs the reputation of the game and the fans happiness.

[Darkarath]

Well, since we are talking (yet again) about our dreamed world revamp... I have not been following 9.2.5 a lot, but it is my understanding that the Forsaken had recovered the Undercity or at least Tirisfal Glades? And that Night Elves have now an empowered Tear of Elune to make a new tree?

So while we will not see their new cities in Dragonflight, we know that they are coming. Plus Dragonflight is bringing up to date the last assets that are not updated yet (Tuskarr, Gnolls, and most important Dragons, and I bet that some more too).

So, and I know that it is really soon to say this, but 11.0 might be the desired world revamp, especially since you bet your ass that we will see the end of Nozdormu / Murozond, and that could end in many ways, even with Azeroth going back to the past, taking the advantange to just revamp some zones in a new continent, while the rest is still unexplored and available for new patches / expansions, while all the pre 11.0 content is accessible through CoT or whatever way they come up with. They can even use this chance to fucking respect the lore again and solve past mistakes (like everything Shadowlands related, for example).

Plus, now that Microsoft owns them and they will probably want to bring WoW to consoles, what better time to do that that with a world revamp / restart of the game.

[Alanar]

It was what some people wanted though, they felt Argus could of been an entire expansion. Again the borrowed power stuff was still coming into effect as well and so on. It wasn't all happy day in Legion at least around here. I was satisfied but satisfaction here is rare or almost like a female dwarf.

I hated Legion shadow so there is that.

[Darkarath]

Well, since we are talking (yet again) about our dreamed world revamp... I have not been following 9.2.5 a lot, but it is my understanding that the Forsaken had recovered the Undercity or at least Tirisfal Glades? And that Night Elves have now an empowered Tear of Elune to make a new tree?

So while we will not see their new cities in Dragonflight, we know that they are coming. Plus Dragonflight is bringing up to date the last assets that are not updated yet (Tuskarr, Gnolls, and most important Dragons, and I bet that some more too).

So, and I know that it is really soon to say this, but 11.0 might be the desired world revamp, especially since you bet your ass that we will see the end of Nozdormu / Murozond, and that could end in many ways, even with Azeroth going back to the past, taking the advantange to just revamp some zones in a new continent, while the rest is still unexplored and available for new patches / expansions, while all the pre 11.0 content is accessible through CoT or whatever way they come up with. They can even use this chance to fucking respect the lore again and solve past mistakes (like everything Shadowlands related, for example).

Plus, now that Microsoft owns them and they will probably want to bring WoW to consoles, what better time to do that that with a world revamp / restart of the game.

[huth]

No I'm pretty sure most people felt satisfied with Legion, yes there were complaints during that time, but not to the extent that we have now.

There were just as many complaints. The level of complaining hasn't really varied much in the last decade or so. Your mind just didn't consider them important enough to retain. Which is frankly pretty accurate.

[Makabreska]

There were just as many complaints. The level of complaining hasn't really varied much in the last decade or so. Your mind just didn't consider them important enough to retain. Which is frankly pretty accurate.

Eh, pretty sure that borrowed powers complains kept increasing over the expansions, as they were pretty new in Legion and not nearly as obnoxious to grind like in BfA. Exhaustion kept increasing. The main thing in Legion peeps had issues at the start was Leggo lottery.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean things will change with Microsoft taking over. Microsoft will ship 11.0 unless the FTC steps in. Everything is on the table with 11.0.

It would make sense for Microsoft to do something extravagant but again there is the case that they may use Warcraft 3 Re-Reforged as the main PR win rather than putting resources into World of Warcraft and leaving the Warcraft Team to do whatever they want to do without supervision. So there's a lot of ways this may end for 11.0.

It is likely that the game will be in the hands of Microsoft by 10.2-10.3 time. Depending on the situation at that point for the game, things may have drastically changed in favor for Microsoft suits to step in or perhaps the opposite.

[Makorus]

Well, since we are talking (yet again) about our dreamed world revamp... I have not been following 9.2.5 a lot, but it is my understanding that the Forsaken had recovered the Undercity or at least Tirisfal Glades? And that Night Elves have now an empowered Tear of Elune to make a new tree?

So while we will not see their new cities in Dragonflight, we know that they are coming. Plus Dragonflight is bringing up to date the last assets that are not updated yet (Tuskarr, Gnolls, and most important Dragons, and I bet that some more too).

So, and I know that it is really soon to say this, but 11.0 might be the desired world revamp, especially since you bet your ass that we will see the end of Nozdormu / Murozond, and that could end in many ways, even with Azeroth going back to the past, taking the advantange to just revamp some zones in a new continent, while the rest is still unexplored and available for new patches / expansions, while all the pre 11.0 content is accessible through CoT or whatever way they come up with. They can even use this chance to fucking respect the lore again and solve past mistakes (like everything Shadowlands related, for example).

Plus, now that Microsoft owns them and they will probably want to bring WoW to consoles, what better time to do that that with a world revamp / restart of the game.

Maaan, people have been making arguments like that since FOREVER.

"Oh, 7.0 gonna be a world revamp because something happens while we are on Draenor!"

"Oh, 8.0 is gonna be a world revamp because of the sword!"

"Oh, 9.0 is gonna be a world revamp because N'zoth distracted us!"

"Oh, 10.0 is gonna be a world revamp because time works differently!"

[Kiivar86]

Maaan, people have been making arguments like that since FOREVER.

"Oh, 7.0 gonna be a world revamp because something happens while we are on Draenor!"

"Oh, 8.0 is gonna be a world revamp because of the sword!"

"Oh, 9.0 is gonna be a world revamp because N'zoth distracted us!"

"Oh, 10.0 is gonna be a world revamp because time works differently!"

Yup. Its kinda funny.

Though a broken clock is right twice a day so eventually it may happen.

[Sondrelk]

Eh, pretty sure that borrowed powers complains kept increasing over the expansions, as they were pretty new in Legion and not nearly as obnoxious to grind like in BfA. Exhaustion kept increasing. The main thing in Legion peeps had issues at the start was Leggo lottery.

The artifact grind in Legion was far worse than BfA. You couldn't swap specs without dedicating serious time into another grind, and the talent tree setup meant that you had massive power increases at det points, which meant your ability could fluctuate wildly, as seen by Trial of Valor where you had the trait that gave you a flat 5% damage increase, with another 0.5% for every one after that for a total of 15% increased damage done.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup. Its kinda funny.

Though a broken clock is right twice a day so eventually it may happen.

It has to happen eventually. Dragon Isles is the last good entirely new area Blizzard has to offer. Beyond that and we enter dubious territory like Undermine, or a South seas expansion with all the islands not already used in BfA.

At some point Blizzard has to reuse something. And they have clearly been setting up storylines that logically cannot really take place outside EK/Kalimdor, like the Dark Iron Dwarf storyline.

[Makorus]

The artifact grind in Legion was far worse than BfA. You couldn't swap specs without dedicating serious time into another grind, and the talent tree setup meant that you had massive power increases at det points, which meant your ability could fluctuate wildly, as seen by Trial of Valor where you had the trait that gave you a flat 5% damage increase, with another 0.5% for every one after that for a total of 15% increased damage done.

People only remember the Artifacts from like 7.2 when Artifact Knowledge was just a thing that happened automatically and they showered you in AP where it was pretty much a cakewalk to reach the first level of Concordance.

Launch Artifacts were a fucking nightmare. Artifact Knowledge was just bafflingly stupid implemented where if you didn't cap day 1 and you didn't start a new research as soon as the old one finished, you were permanently behind.

[Darkarath]

Yup. Its kinda funny.

Though a broken clock is right twice a day so eventually it may happen.

That's my hope