1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Latter is likely albeit maybe not even involving that specific scenario. The former no but thats very dependant what the side narrative is throughout the expansion. If for some reason a Naaru pops up on Azeroth....well..... read the subtext.
    It probably won't follow that specific scenario, but I do see Life playing a part this expac. Whatcha mean you don't agree with the Former? I'm certain that's where the plot is headed. Doubt it'll just be a Turalyon and Light alone scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    If 10.0 is something huge like Cata 2/ another Azeroth revamp with things like Quel'thalas in the main world and new cities, then yeah I can see Shadowlands being a shorter expansion. Both so the devs can continue to pour in the huge amount of resources needed for it and for fans to not feel like they're "stuck" in Shadowlands when they'll desperately want to get back to new Azeroth.

    That being said there's still room for a detour inbetween the Maw and the Jailer's end destination (likely the Sepulcher) but I can see them shortening the expansion as well. All the base assets for the zones are in at the moment (armor, mounts etc) and now that the Broker realm is being explored we're kind of "out" of Shadowlands specific realms save for anything from the Inbetween.
    Why would they shorten Shadowlands? We still have to figure out wtf they're going to do with Anduin, we don't have the Arbiter up yet, the inbetween has still yet to be explored, and we don't even know how the Drust plot's going to end. Hell, we're not even on 9.1 yet. We got a LOT of time for 10.0 man, trust me. And if Blizzard has to break the 2 year rule for it, then so be it.

    Also, regarding the Sepulcher, pretty sure that's why we're going to Korthia.

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    Which is funny. The Jailer just randomly takes a long lost land of the Shadowlands and brings that shit to the Maw. Mf really just said "I WANT THE SECRETS NOW, FIRST ONES! BRING THAT SHIT OVER HERE!!!!!"

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    It probably won't follow that specific scenario, but I do see Life playing a part this expac. Whatcha mean you don't agree with the Former? I'm certain that's where the plot is headed. Doubt it'll just be a Turalyon and Light alone scenario.

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    Why would they shorten Shadowlands? We still have to figure out wtf they're going to do with Anduin, we don't have the Arbiter up yet, the inbetween has still yet to be explored, and we don't even know how the Drust plot's going to end. Hell, we're not even on 9.1 yet. We got a LOT of time for 10.0 man, trust me. And if Blizzard has to break the 2 year rule for it, then so be it.

    Also, regarding the Sepulcher, pretty sure that's why we're going to Korthia.

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    Which is funny. The Jailer just randomly takes a long lost land of the Shadowlands and brings that shit to the Maw. Mf really just said "I WANT THE SECRETS NOW, FIRST ONES! BRING THAT SHIT OVER HERE!!!!!"
    The argument for shortening the Shadowlands expansions is more or less that Blizzard seems to be moving quite fast compared to previous expansions. We are already getting flying in 9.1, the landmass is not necessarily a new zone, but it is more than we used to get, not to mention that the raid is in the Maw, which seems quite early considering we would ususally have another raid before the final push.

    Mostly though the argument lives and dies on whether we can expect 10.0 to be an expansion on a scale not seen before that manages ot overcome the hurdles of development that plagued Cata.

    Though even with that it would be a tough sell. My guess is a normal patch cycle, but i guess we can only wait for tomorrow and see.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #543
    I do not think that they have to shorten SL for the new xpac to be huge, the dev team has become bigger than ever and i think they hired even more so SL should be good content wise.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The argument for shortening the Shadowlands expansions is more or less that Blizzard seems to be moving quite fast compared to previous expansions. We are already getting flying in 9.1, the landmass is not necessarily a new zone, but it is more than we used to get, not to mention that the raid is in the Maw, which seems quite early considering we would ususally have another raid before the final push.

    Mostly though the argument lives and dies on whether we can expect 10.0 to be an expansion on a scale not seen before that manages ot overcome the hurdles of development that plagued Cata.

    Though even with that it would be a tough sell. My guess is a normal patch cycle, but i guess we can only wait for tomorrow and see.
    Moving quite fast? It's moving rather slowly tbh. 9.1 is probably going to release in May/June, unlike 7.1 where the shit released in OCTOBER, and 8.1 released in December of 2018, with its announcement being barely a month after 8.0's release. Not to mention that it seems like the development for SL is a lot bigger than ever.

    "the landmass is not necessarily a new zone" That's fine? 8.1 and 7.1 had no extra piece of landmass either. So, if anything, 9.1's already an upgrade from that.

    "not to mention that the raid is in the Maw, which seems quite early considering we would ususally have another raid before the final push." That probably just means we won't defeat the Jailer at his seat of power. Reminder, we also need the ARBITER in order to stop the Jailer. He'll likely pull a Halls of Reflection against us by the end of the raid, and we'll likely face him at Oribos as the last raid. Idk, something like that could happen.

    "Mostly though the argument lives and dies on whether we can expect 10.0 to be an expansion on a scale not seen before that manages ot overcome the hurdles of development that plagued Cata." Blizzard's usually 2 expansions ahead anyway, we could see a world revamp regardless of SL's length. SL lasting longer could also help 10.0's development.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    I do not think that they have to shorten SL for the new xpac to be huge, the dev team has become bigger than ever and i think they hired even more so SL should be good content wise.
    If they REALLY want to cut resources for SL, they would just make 9.3 similar to 8.3, no new zones, just some questlines, rares, raid (Jailer storming Oribos) and M+/Season. Overall low price for extending SL by 6-7 months.

    But, I feel they may already doing it, compare how many zones, questlines, dungeons they pumped into BfA (.. and how many of that content was wasted, but that's another story) and SL. Also - no new class this time, maybe it was (not) done both to save resources and move class introduction to 10.0.

  6. #546
    I don’t think Shadowlands is getting shortened: I think it may be designed to be short from the get go.

    Lots of detail and care put into the zones, plus room for some patch stuff, but maybe not the same shelf life as Legion or BFA. Also an incredibly important plot and setting.

    So basically an anti WOD.

  7. #547
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    I don’t think Shadowlands is getting shortened: I think it may be designed to be short from the get go.

    Lots of detail and care put into the zones, plus room for some patch stuff, but maybe not the same shelf life as Legion or BFA. Also an incredibly important plot and setting.

    So basically an anti WOD.
    I mean they shouldn't, its going to bite them in the ass later and WoD was sorta planned to be shorter in their attempt for yearly expansions. So no I hope they don't try to be short, not to mention an interview a few months back seemed to imply the storyline would be long. I see no reason why Blizzard would want to change up the formula just for the sake of a world revamp in the incoming 10.0 but that wait time to get there may be very painful that and I don't think they need to mess with the Two major content patches per expansion method. It works(Just not the content thats within it you can take issue with)
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  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I mean they shouldn't, its going to bite them in the ass later and WoD was sorta planned to be shorter in their attempt for yearly expansions. So no I hope they don't try to be short, not to mention an interview a few months back seemed to imply the storyline would be long.
    there is no reason people should be thinking SL is going to be short
    I dont understand why every time they announce a patch we get "omg its too fast" or "omg it took too long" and it always ends "omg the expansion wont have a .3 patch WOD INCOMING!!!"

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Moving quite fast? It's moving rather slowly tbh. 9.1 is probably going to release in May/June, unlike 7.1 where the shit released in OCTOBER, and 8.1 released in December of 2018, with its announcement being barely a month after 8.0's release. Not to mention that it seems like the development for SL is a lot bigger than ever.

    "the landmass is not necessarily a new zone" That's fine? 8.1 and 7.1 had no extra piece of landmass either. So, if anything, 9.1's already an upgrade from that.

    "not to mention that the raid is in the Maw, which seems quite early considering we would ususally have another raid before the final push." That probably just means we won't defeat the Jailer at his seat of power. Reminder, we also need the ARBITER in order to stop the Jailer. He'll likely pull a Halls of Reflection against us by the end of the raid, and we'll likely face him at Oribos as the last raid. Idk, something like that could happen.

    "Mostly though the argument lives and dies on whether we can expect 10.0 to be an expansion on a scale not seen before that manages ot overcome the hurdles of development that plagued Cata." Blizzard's usually 2 expansions ahead anyway, we could see a world revamp regardless of SL's length. SL lasting longer could also help 10.0's development.
    Fast in the sense that the story within the patches are moving quite fast. Based on the leaked press kit 9.1 already has us attack Torghast, and while the Jailer is not confirmed to be there it is still a story development that would usually be saved for the end unless Blizzard is gearing for a massive twist at the end.
    Same with the flying. We don't usually get it this quickly for obvious reasons. Why Blizzard wants to give it this early doesnt really make sense unless Blizzard has either capitulated to those who don't want good ground content or they are intending to end it early.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    there is no reason people should be thinking SL is going to be short
    I dont understand why every time they announce a patch we get "omg its too fast" or "omg it took too long" and it always ends "omg the expansion wont have a .3 patch WOD INCOMING!!!"
    It's not about hte patch itself releasing early or late, but rather that the story seems ot be moving awfully fast considering what we can assume is the endgame of the Jailer attacking Oribos and/or Azeroth.

    Most likely this is because of a twist with teh Jailer's plans or Sylvanas being up to shenanigans, but the leak already confirms that we will have united the covenants and mostly pushed back the Jailer by the end. Usually we could have expected the final patch and raid after such massive developments, which points to either a shorter story or a massive twist.


    Regardless we will find out tomorrow. Most likely it is a giant twist, but a shorter expansion is in theory possible if we strictly assume that 10.0 is a massive undertaking that Blizzard wants as much time spent developing as possible.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It's not about hte patch itself releasing early or late, but rather that the story seems ot be moving awfully fast considering what we can assume is the endgame of the Jailer attacking Oribos and/or Azeroth.
    But is it really? It leaves 9.2 for a semi/unrelated tier, then 9.3 for the Jailer's endgame, which fits just fine.

  11. #551
    Maybe blizzard has something planned we arent expecting and the maw stuff is actually only the start.

  12. #552
    I think there's definitely room for a meaty 9.2 with lots of new art assets yeah (Broker stuff was already worked on with how many assets they have in launch, same as a Maw expansion/raid) but it's also not exactly necessary at the moment. It's incredibly likely Jailer will break out at the end of 8.1 and his final showdown will take place elsewhere... but that showdown could come right after he breaks out.

    I think of all possibilities the Gardens of Life will be the zone expansion based on things like the Drust, the fact the Gardens were namedropped in SL for the first time, Eonar/Elune being kind of a B-plot right now and the possibility of a dual Death/Life theme. It can also be like Argus/the Nether where they don't think they could make an entire expansion in the Life Realm and instead give us a "Greatest Hits" version of it with multiple zones.

    As it doesn't look like we're getting a Broker zone after all I'd say we're due for at least one legitimate new zone the size of Nazjatar. City of Secrets probably won't be bigger than Mechagon but I'd like to be surprised.

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Fast in the sense that the story within the patches are moving quite fast. Based on the leaked press kit 9.1 already has us attack Torghast, and while the Jailer is not confirmed to be there it is still a story development that would usually be saved for the end unless Blizzard is gearing for a massive twist at the end.
    Same with the flying. We don't usually get it this quickly for obvious reasons. Why Blizzard wants to give it this early doesnt really make sense unless Blizzard has either capitulated to those who don't want good ground content or they are intending to end it early.

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    It's not about hte patch itself releasing early or late, but rather that the story seems ot be moving awfully fast considering what we can assume is the endgame of the Jailer attacking Oribos and/or Azeroth.

    Most likely this is because of a twist with teh Jailer's plans or Sylvanas being up to shenanigans, but the leak already confirms that we will have united the covenants and mostly pushed back the Jailer by the end. Usually we could have expected the final patch and raid after such massive developments, which points to either a shorter story or a massive twist.


    Regardless we will find out tomorrow. Most likely it is a giant twist, but a shorter expansion is in theory possible if we strictly assume that 10.0 is a massive undertaking that Blizzard wants as much time spent developing as possible.
    Flying is probably just Blizzard learning from the mistakes of WoD, Legion, and BFA finally. And regarding Torghast, so? Us invading the Jailer's seat of power doesn't mean shit. Could just mean we'll lose in the end anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    I think there's definitely room for a meaty 9.2 with lots of new art assets yeah (Broker stuff was already worked on with how many assets they have in launch, same as a Maw expansion/raid) but it's also not exactly necessary at the moment. It's incredibly likely Jailer will break out at the end of 8.1 and his final showdown will take place elsewhere... but that showdown could come right after he breaks out.

    I think of all possibilities the Gardens of Life will be the zone expansion based on things like the Drust, the fact the Gardens were namedropped in SL for the first time, Eonar/Elune being kind of a B-plot right now and the possibility of a dual Death/Life theme. It can also be like Argus/the Nether where they don't think they could make an entire expansion in the Life Realm and instead give us a "Greatest Hits" version of it with multiple zones.

    As it doesn't look like we're getting a Broker zone after all I'd say we're due for at least one legitimate new zone the size of Nazjatar. City of Secrets probably won't be bigger than Mechagon but I'd like to be surprised.
    Would LOVE to see the Gardens of Life as the next area. Would be perfect in trying to cleanse Anduin from his corruption aswell. Also could expands more on what the Emerald Dream truly is, outside of being a "playground of the Titans".

    The quest "https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blade_of_Blades" Is cool asf, aswell. Talking about a blade that could take down the Titans themselves, slay guys from the Light and Void, as well as guys from the Gardens of Life. That would be cool.

    I do think us exploring the Gardens later in SL is definitely a possibility. Same with the Inbetween.

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Flying is probably just Blizzard learning from the mistakes of WoD, Legion, and BFA finally. And regarding Torghast, so? Us invading the Jailer's seat of power doesn't mean shit. Could just mean we'll lose in the end anyway.
    Really don't know why people think Torghast was setup as the final raid. We were never told that, and that rundown pretty clearly indicates the final boss of Torghast is Sylvanas, not the Jailer.

    Pretty clear to me that after we beat Sylvanas we'll get a cutscene of the Jailer completing whatever plan she was stalling us for and escaping. Probably with Anduin in tow for us to kill fight in 9.2.
    Legion made WoD's mistakes into traditions. It is my belief when all is said and done we will regard Legion as the beginning of the end.
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  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Really don't know why people think Torghast was setup as the final raid. We were never told that, and that rundown pretty clearly indicates the final boss of Torghast is Sylvanas, not the Jailer.

    Pretty clear to me that after we beat Sylvanas we'll get a cutscene of the Jailer completing whatever plan she was stalling us for and escaping. Probably with Anduin in tow for us to kill fight in 9.2.
    I know, right? Well, if you want my take on the ending of the Torghast raid? I think we're gonna get something like the Halls of Reflection, where Sylvanas is defeated but not killed, Anduin pops in, but then the Jailer shows up last second. The Jailer then finally shows his true power, and we're left with no choice but to escape the raid. As we run back to whence we came, we see the Jailer's pure power dismantle the covenant armies in the background, and while the Jailer is running after us, we have to dodge AOE attacks from him while he's simple WALKING AND STARRING US DOWN! Then, we'll get a cinematic where the covenant leaders all retreat back to Oribos.

    There, in 9.2, we go to the Gardens of Life and explore more of that, we stop the Jailer's forces there, etc, and while that happens, the Jailer is going to try and find a way to Oribos from the Maw VIA using the Inbetween to his advantage.

    That's what I think will happen, tbh. I think the 9.2 stuff is likely going to happen, and it could make sense, especially the Life stuff, especially if we're going to try and uncorrupt Anduin (I mean...what counters Death, ya know? lol And the Drust aren't completely gone yet, as well), but the Torghast raid thing is just a hope of mine.

    I REALLY, REALLY want to see the Jailer actually do something. The guy just hasn't felt powerful yet. I seriously need a Halls of Reflection moment where he dismantles us all.

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    Also, I wonder what Korthia is going to house. It's called the City of Secrets, ye? Does that mean the Sepulcher's there as well? Will we get more info on who the First Ones actually are? I assume so. This does seem to be a very well hidden place, for a reason.

  16. #556
    I (and many others) told you many times most likely 2nd raid will be Maw raid with Sylvanas. It so obvious because it fits design of WoW structure at least from Legion, don't get people suddenly think it's "rushing SL story".

    And we still need details, we have no idea if Kel,thuzad, Uther, Arthas, Jailer, Arbiter, Anduin (as boss) will be involved or saved for next patches. 9.1 could as well end with us running away from Thorghast after we beat Sylvanas, but fail to save Anduin.

  17. #557
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    Why are there 5 sets to see though? i assume the 2 right ones are both venthyr or a cov made only for cosmetics like from the ruins of Korthia.
    IM guessing they are going to let us obtain a set from each covenant or even 4 sets totat?

    16 new sets? Not as HD or cool as OG sets, but good enough to let players from other covenants get some cool mog. Also betting they loosen the covenant abilities situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It would definitely be more likely to have a normal 3 major patch cycle. Still though, it is quite odd just how quickly this expansion seems to be moving. First flying a patch earlier than normal, then the second major raid already does things that seem like endgame stuff.

    Where is the expansion going forward at this point? There barely seems to be story left to tell after the Maw raid, much less 2.
    Been saying it for a while. I called Sylvanas Torghast raid a long time ago. The first major patch almost always deals with the main plot somewhat and B characters. The second major patch will be a detour (Nazjatar) but lead into the final patch. Jailer escapes end of 9.1. 9.2 we dont know where he is, but we deal with a side plot that leads back to the Jailer. Last patch deals with the Jailer. Likely at the Sepulcher or on Azeroth.

    9.2 likely Thros/Broker realm/Some random but important Shadowlands realm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    They have to present ssomething. We know that they will talk about 9.1, but they are not going to get a better chance at talking about 9.2 than now, even more important as 9.1 is likely quite close even with 9.0.5.
    Well the main presentation is only 30 mins long. A bit shorter than other years I think? I think they tease 9.2 but nothing about 9.3. Players lose it thinking that means 9.2 is the final patch and Ion has to tweet a week later saying no they just arent ready to talk about 9.3 yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    They wanted to do yearly expansions for man years and well when they uhhh tried to commit(Wod) well it was a woops


    P.S. Don't take it as me hating on WoD, I loved it if it was treated like Mop Legion and BFA content delivery(big content patches and such).

    If Blizz wants Shadowlands to last longer then all the other expansions to date... I aint complaining.
    What if we get 5 raid tier lmao.
    9.0- November
    9.1- June
    9.2- December
    9.3- July
    9.4- January
    10.0-November 2023. World revamp plus 5 new zones and a new class.

  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    IM guessing they are going to let us obtain a set from each covenant or even 4 sets totat?

    16 new sets? Not as HD or cool as OG sets, but good enough to let players from other covenants get some cool mog. Also betting they loosen the covenant abilities situation.

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    Been saying it for a while. I called Sylvanas Torghast raid a long time ago. The first major patch almost always deals with the main plot somewhat and B characters. The second major patch will be a detour (Nazjatar) but lead into the final patch. Jailer escapes end of 9.1. 9.2 we dont know where he is, but we deal with a side plot that leads back to the Jailer. Last patch deals with the Jailer. Likely at the Sepulcher or on Azeroth.

    9.2 likely Thros/Broker realm/Some random but important Shadowlands realm.
    I know the standard patch cycle, I have proposed it asa basis for theories before. I am just wondering where it will go now that the Maw raid seems to be really late endgame stuff.
    Whether the Jailer is there or not the Maw is his stronghold. I would liken it almost to if Legion had the second raid be on Argus. Sure, there are likely places the story could go, but it seems to be moving really fast compared to other expansions where teh second raid is the main plot, but not really the main antagonist.

    Regardless I guess we will see later. Having thought about it I guess the Sanctum of domination is not necesarily Torghast exactly, but we are essentially going to be "done" with the Maw going forward, which leaves a big question mark of where the last 2 patches will take us. Even if we assume the now quite likely final raid on Azeroth or Oribos that still leaves the X.2 B story patch.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  19. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I could honestly see Blizzard cutting SL short by a patch, but only if the intent is to have 10.0 be a world revamp expansion that requires as much time as it can possibly get. It wouldnt be a good idea necessarily, but I could in theory see it happen.

    I do doubt it though. Blizzard has a good thing going with the 3 main patch setup, and I doubt they want this expansion to be the one that breaks the streak.
    They could do it. Streth the patches out.

    9.1- June
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    10.0- May

    15 month final tier. Subs kept afloat by TBC and WoW classic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    My guess for next patches -

    9.1 - Lich Anduin is born! We fight Sylvanas in raid... until 5%... then she turns around and decides she's been trying to help us this whole time #5DChess

    9.2 - We have to find Arthas as for some contrived reason he's the only one who can help Anduin

    9.3 - We beat Jailer with Anduin and Arthas' help and Arthas becomes the new jailer.



    Then probably -

    Sylvanas goes back to Orgrimmar as a hero who helped save everyone but the Alliance warns her "If you fail to uphold honor, we will end you!" YES! #AllianceFistPumpMoment!

    9.3.5 Some quest about Anduin teaching Tyrande how she needs to learn forgiveness to be a real leader
    I cant believe you just leaked the entire expansion... Blizzard PR calling in 3..2...1...

  20. #560
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    I actually wouldn't mind if Shadowlands lasts longer, I am enjoying it way more than BFA.

    If it gave them time to work on a world revamp or something, I would be fine with 6 years of being in the Shadowlands lmao worth it.

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