Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[huth]

No, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Shadowlands was bad, therefor Dragonflight has the potential to be bad. Just because signs are pointing towards it being bad doesn't mean IT IS BAD. I obviously don't know that Dragonflight is bad, but I'm extrapolating from data we've gained from the past (Shadowlands) and predicting a potential outcome (Dragonflight possibly being bad).

You may call that nothing, or think it's stupid, but it's just looking at history.

You mean the history where Legion came after WoD?

[Nyel]

Oh, hi Nyel. Did you already solve problem of having post max level progression without having borrowed power or forcing people to grind ton of old shit later on? Or still stuck in limbo?

Yes and I already told you days and weeks ago. Instead of copying stuff like Dragonriding from other games they should rather copy their horizontal progression and improve that.

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WoD had nothing in it by later patches. Not at launch. Dragonflight is poised to set the base game up, which it should. Story, exploration, collector drive with Dragon Riding (Arguably this is the progression system since you need to train your dragon to reach new, higher areas in the zones). Dungeons and raiding to keep people busy. If the expansion patch is basic, they can push out the .X content patches faster, and we could always see new systems in those too.

What? WoD has exactly the same stuff going as Dragonflight: dungeons (with different difficulties), open world elite zones and raids. As of now Dragonflight offers exactly the same kind of content as WoD and nothing more. I didn't count Garrisons because they're trivial, but if you're counting Dragonriding as "content", so can we count Garrisons.

By the way, they never added a completely new progression system in a patch. They iterated on their previous expansion feature systems and improved / tweaked them, but they never went out and said "hey, here we have a completely new system for you that we kept away from the expansion feature list just because we could".

[Atriel]

What? WoD has exactly the same stuff going as Dragonflight: dungeons (with different difficulties), open world elite zones and raids. As of now Dragonflight offers exactly the same kind of content as WoD and nothing more.

Except WoD didn't have a new race or class to play. Or a system like the Dragon Riding. The overhaul on Professions as well offers a lot of get out into the world to try to get new recipes and become the best craftsperson on top of the new cosmetics.

[Nyel]

I know at least one guy whose gonna hate it, no matter what.

Not hating, just calling out how trivial and shallow Dragonflight is.

[Makabreska]

Yes and I already told you days and weeks ago. Instead of copying stuff like Dragonriding from other games they should rather copy their horizontal progression and improve that.

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What? WoD has exactly the same stuff going as Dragonflight: dungeons (with different difficulties), open world elite zones and raids. As of now Dragonflight offers exactly the same kind of content as WoD and nothing more.

So it had an extra class/race, revamped talent system, new flying system and M+ (pls don't compare Challenge Mode to M+)? And these are all things we know w/o Alpha even starting.

[Nyel]

Except WoD didn't have a new race or class to play. Or a system like the Dragon Riding. The overhaul on Professions as well offers a lot of get out into the world to try to get new recipes and become the best craftsperson on top of the new cosmetics.

Okay, how does a new class help players have fun when there is zero max level progression?

Professions as content now? Okay, I see the arguments are not getting better in that regard.

[Makabreska]

Not hating, just calling out how trivial and shallow Dragonflight is.

Nope, you are hating. As always. You got minimal info about DF from the reveal and like 1-2 blog posts and yet you compare it with 100% confidence to a full expansion from the past.

[Atriel]

Okay, how does a new class help players have fun when there is zero max level progression?

Professions as content now? Okay, I see the arguments are not getting better in that regard.

Ion did say there was another progression system in the game that they did not reveal, we will have to see what that may be, won't we?

[Nyel]

So it had an extra class/race, revamped talent system, new flying system and M+ (pls don't compare Challenge Mode to M+)? And these are all things we know w/o Alpha even starting.

Read again. I said WoD offered the same kind of content that Dragonflight has to offer and that's a fact: dungeons, raids and open world zones.

A new class is no content. Restricted flying is no content. And a revamped talent system isn't content either. Warfronts were content. Island Expeditions. Torghast. Terrible content, yes, but at least content. Heck, Covenants and all their intricacies were more or less content. Dragonflight has nothing like that. No, professions are not content. No, revamped talents are not content. Those are features, if at all.

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Ion did say there was another progression system in the game that they did not reveal, we will have to see what that may be, won't we?

Are you referring to the new Renown thing? Because I don't remember Ion saying they have another progression system they didn't want to announce yet.

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Nope, you are hating. As always. You got minimal info about DF from the reveal and like 1-2 blog posts and yet you compare it with 100% confidence to a full expansion from the past.

I compare the kind of content available. We know the type of content Dragonflight will contain and more importantly, the type of content Dragonflight will not contain.

[Makabreska]

A new class is no content.

Ok, this is just hilarious at this point. A new class that people play during end game is not content

I compare the kind of content available. We know the type of content Dragonflight will contain and more importantly, the type of content Dragonflight will not contain.

And here is your problem you still do not get. There is no available content for DF. Game didn't even start Alpha. You do not know how it will look on launch and what will be added there and in later patch. Yet you are sooo confident about a complete shape of the game from the reveal snippets.

[Ilir]

I compare the kind of content available. We know the type of content Dragonflight will contain and more importantly, the type of content Dragonflight will not contain.

?????

Raids are still there, mythic + are still there, dungeons are still there. Mogs are still there. Mounts are still there (although in a new form I guess).

What other content ? Torgy ? People hated it.
Island expe ? people hated it.
Horrific vision ? I think people didn't really like it.
Pet battle ? Still there and it's not the most popular thing.
Scenarios ? It wasn't that popular either.

So what content are you talking about ?

[Atriel]

Are you referring to the new Renown thing? Because I don't remember Ion saying they have another progression system they didn't want to announce yet.

Not that I am aware of, I know that in the reveal he made mention of the renown system specifically, but also stated that there would be other progression in place.

[Dracullus]

No, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Shadowlands was bad, therefor Dragonflight has the potential to be bad. Just because signs are pointing towards it being bad doesn't mean IT IS BAD. I obviously don't know that Dragonflight is bad, but I'm extrapolating from data we've gained from the past (Shadowlands) and predicting a potential outcome (Dragonflight possibly being bad).

You may call that nothing, or think it's stupid, but it's just looking at history.

...and you have some arguments beside it's bad? List exactly what in your opinion made Shadowlands 'bad' and THEN we can discuss if Dragonflight has potential to be better.

Example, here's mine list what I didn't liked in SL, judging from whole picture:

1) Story too disconnected from Azeroth and themes like alternate universes or afterlifes are mistakes in my opinion. That's why I loved BfA launch (with exception of making Horde clearly evil from day 1). Will DF correct this mistake? I think very likely. We still don't know much though.

2) 7-8 month long patches and only 3 big raids. We simply have no data here, for sure they can screw up this again, especially if DF will come too fast. Bonus season at the end of SL is great idea, but I'm afraid it will give them lazy path and 4th season will always be something like this, in my ideal we would have 5 seasons lasting 5 months each (and 5th one being "bonus" one).

3) Systems become deadweight in SL. In Legion they introduced artifact so you have something to grind (because in WoD there was REALLY not much to do), but since Legion cosmetic part of game grew.. and grew.. and grew. We don't need grind for power to have always something to do in game. So in SL whole grind was removed, but systems stayed.

And worst thing about SL/BfA systems (Legion was less affected by this) - too much choices. You want raid. You must pick right talents, right covenant, right soulbind, right conduct, right legendary. It's far too complicated. But this is something that we KNOW will be fixed in DF. We just simply won't have it.

That also solve "alt problem" in my book. I had complains about alts in BfA, simply BfA design was too chaotic and all over the place. In SL you can jump straight to patch action with few clicks. Only tedious part was gathering all system related stuff (right lego, right conduit, etc.)

Beside that I always thought SL is good direction for game. If anything my main complain about DF is that it still focuses more on "fixing" game instead of taking any risks with new forms of gameplay.

[Alexjimithing]

It’s pretty cool Nyel got to play the game already.

[Skildar]

In this forum there are two groups of people: People who were super hyped about Dragonflight when it was announced but are now super apprehensive due to the 2022 release date, and people who were extremely underwhelmed by the announcement but have sense mellowed into a state of contented optimism & these two groups absolutely hate each other.

This sounds perfectly like the introduction in the Law and Order tv show, well played

[Nyel]

Ok, this is just hilarious at this point. A new class that people play during end game is not content



And here is your problem you still do not get. There is no available content for DF. Game didn't even start Alpha. You do not know how it will look on launch and what will be added there and in later patch. Yet you are sooo confident about a complete shape of the game from the reveal snippets.

No because you clearly have not grasped the difference between content and a feature. I don't know how a new class is content for players of the other twelve classes, but whatever.

Uhm, they already said what to expect. New dungeons, new raids and a new continent. Heck, that's one of the most prominent "features" on the Dragonflight announcement patch. Not that it's the most trivial and basic stuff for an expansion to contain. Everything else is listed under the expansion features section. You don't need to wait for Alpha or Beta to point that out when it's laid out and written everywhere.

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?????

Raids are still there, mythic + are still there, dungeons are still there. Mogs are still there. Mounts are still there (although in a new form I guess).

What other content ? Torgy ? People hated it.
Island expe ? people hated it.
Horrific vision ? I think people didn't really like it.
Pet battle ? Still there and it's not the most popular thing.
Scenarios ? It wasn't that popular either.

So what content are you talking about ?

I have no idea what your post is about as half of what you said was already said by me and the other half has nothing to do with what I was trying to say.

Dragonflight offers the same range of content as WoD. That was my statement. Raids, dungeons and open world zones. That's the content of WoD and that's the content of Dragonflight. Nothing more was said.

I agree that the recent new types of content were usually disliked, but does that mean to completely cut it and not even try to come up with a compensation for that loss? Because Blizzard is doing exactly that. They're "pruning", but this time expansion features. I'm just saying it will backfire a lot because people will get bored by this expansion faster than ever before.

[Hitei]

So these games outdid F76 with it's T poses, falling under ground, crashes, graphic glitches, rollbacks, guns not shooting, perks not working, models bugging, item weight not working and many more?

You really call that game the most stable and bug free?.

Yes. Absolutely. 100%.

Because they had ALL of those issues, even more frequently. New Vegas is one of the most crashy games in fucking existence. It is, to this day, still plagued by issues that make it so a huge chunk of people cannot even play the game because it has rampant and varied startup crashing problems. It also crashes constantly on alt tab, and load screens and entering VATS and looting any inventory, and pretty much any other action taken. It has those same animation, ground clipping, model bugging and inventory/perk and gun not shooting issues (especially in VATS).

Launch Skyrim had near constant animation bugs (76 T posing is a joke compared to how frequently and badly dragons animations bugged), constant graphical and texture glitches, models stretching across the entire world, quests not working, physics bugs out that ass many of which would kill you for doing things like hitting a small object on the ground wrong and being killed by the impact damage, falling through the ground, getting stuck in tables, chairs, benches, basically anything and everything, NPCs and mobs just spawning in the air and falling to their death, hit detection breaking, frequent sound trigger bugging that would make spots just start spamming bird noises or the like.

76 is the more stable and less bugged game. It is not a bug free game, it is just way less buggy and unstable than earlier Bathesda games.

[Dracullus]

Yes and I already told you days and weeks ago. Instead of copying stuff like Dragonriding from other games they should rather copy their horizontal progression and improve that.

Be specific. So working on 11.0 continent or not? If it will be some power connected to Dragon Isles, it still would be borrowed power. Hell, very likely SL will work like that, that was original plan that community forced Blizzard to change.

[TriHard]

My mans saying that astroturfing a forum just to hate on a company is a completely rational thing to do.

And he has the gall to call other people cringe.

What, do you stalk your ex after she breaks up with you as well?

Blizzard shill, lmfao.

Also your attempt at whataboutism is just borderline stupid, don't even try G.

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What is cringe is coming up with any excuse to justify hate. There is no need for it. If you no longer enjoy a product then move on. If it hasn't been what you loved for a while then move on. There is no excuse to hate on something that other people enjoy just because you no longer do. You have every right to be upset about it but you should also move on and stop hating on people that still enjoy the product.

No, it's not at all how it works and you know it.
What Blizzard does affects the entire industry, why the fuck do you think so many people are dunking on them now?

I hope to god the Microsoft deal goes through so they can fix that fucked up company.

[Nyel]

Be specific. So working on 11.0 continent or not? If it will be some power connected to Dragon Isles, it still would be borrowed power. Hell, very likely SL will work like that, that was original plan that community forced Blizzard to change.

I gave you one quite simple idea last week how they easily could keep progression going: you can still earn talent points at max level. It will take way more time and effort to get one, but you still can get them. So you can unlock more and more talents over time. Or you can earn things that add stacks to existing talents, e.g. giving talent A an additional stack so you can put two points into said talent. Now you work towards getting stacks for some (basic) talents and getting more skill points to unlock them. There you have an easy way to keep progression going on max level instead of earning nothing at all (besides new gear and new cosmetics). Because you can be sure that people will instantly complain about the lack of progression the minute they reach max level in Dragonflight.