1. #6001
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    It must be fun for this guy to larp as a dev and pretend he's someone important for a change.

    (Un)fortunately, I doubt the devs have ever cared about this toxic shithole to pay it any mind.
    Gasp!

    Are you, perhaps, implying that MMO-Champion is not the single most wholesome, non-toxic, and constructive community among the whole playerbase? Do you mean that MMO-Champion is honestly pretty small relative to the likes of, say, the actual fucking forums?

    Though, to play Devil's Advocate, I do think that most expansion leaks do actually happen on MMO-Champion. I think this is too much detail (usually it's just an overview of the major systems and the lore, not talk about the situations inside Blizzard proper), but it's not entirely out-of-character. He does lend himself some credibility with the mention of more customization in direct contrast to Ion's statement; a point which was later vindicated. However, a lot of it also sounds like Barnum Statements relying upon the same expectations players already have; that Blizzard is some coterie of corporate scrooges drooling over charts, because good business = bad. They also seem to somewhat skim over the fact we recently found out about that Blizzard has historically been a corrupt cesspit of depraved sex offenders, and I am a little curious as to how that's affecting the mood inside Blizzard.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2021-08-26 at 01:55 PM.

  2. #6002
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    The most obvious one venthyr priest ( san' layn talent, vampiric spells) being vampires themselves seems odd to be left out.

    I have a feeling if they ever become playable it will oy be venthyt and kyrian. The other 2 dont have one real species to focus on, instead they have multiple and none of them realy stand out imo. I mewn these gladiators are just kul tiran models for example and night fea have fairies and female drenaei model. I wouldnt mind if they left out necrolords and night fea.
    Night Fae do have the satyr-esque dudes that use the Draenai rig. A large chunk of necrolords use the male Kultiran rig as well. I feel those would be suitable.

  3. #6003
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I have a feeling if they ever become playable it will oy be venthyt and kyrian. The other 2 dont have one real species to focus on, instead they have multiple and none of them realy stand out imo. I mewn these gladiators are just kul tiran models for example and night fea have fairies and female drenaei model. I wouldnt mind if they left out necrolords and night fea.
    The Kyrian are modeled after the female Vrykul, both sexes. Venthyr are the only one where the race really "starts from scratch" in terms of their model, though all four races have some unique animations/poses and have male/female.

    Kyrian: Female Vrykul
    Sylvari (Night Fae Dryads): Female Draenei
    Venthyr: Brand New (makes sense considering they were the focus of the first raid, want them to be special)
    Maldraxxi Gladiators: Kul Tiran male and female (though male have some unique animations)

    None of them can actually equip armor yet so they clearly weren't ready at launch, but there's a slight chance they'll all become playable (and likely unlockable through max renown: I think this would be really cool and both make sense lorewise for a recruitment thing AND encourage people to roll alts and experience the other covenants).
    Last edited by Nagawithlegs; 2021-08-26 at 02:04 PM.

  4. #6004
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    The Kyrian are modeled after the female Vrykul, both sexes. Venthyr are the only one where the race really "starts from scratch" in terms of their model, though all four races have some unique animations/poses and have male/female.

    Kyrian: Female Vrykul
    Sylvari (Night Fae Dryads): Female Draenei
    Venthyr: Brand New (makes sense considering they were the focus of the first raid, want them to be special)
    Maldraxxi Gladiators: Kul Tiran male and female (though male have some unique animations)

    None of them can actually equip armor yet so they clearly weren't ready at launch, but there's a slight chance they'll all become playable (and likely unlockable through max renown: I think this would be really cool and both make sense lorewise for a recruitment thing AND encourage people to roll alts and experience the other covenants).
    Are you sure that venthyr are not modified nightborne?
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  5. #6005
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Shadowlands has been strange so far. You'd expect an expansion about infinite afterlives to have more patch content dedicated to those new afterlife zones, but we're likely going to end up with just Korthia + Zereth Mortis, and no real afterlife exploration post-9.0, which is a shame imo.
    They made up this trap themselves. Infinite afterlives, and we just get to visit these four plus the Maw - in which afterlife scenario does this make any sense? So infinite afterlives after all, but only four matter and conveniently only those four have Covenants etc? Uhm… the glaring issues with lore and storytelling were obvious the moment they brought this infinite statement into play as they would have never been able to fulfill it. I think Island Expedition technology here could have worked nicely with procedural generated smaller afterlives. This would have made the infinite afterlives approach way more reasonable than it is now. Like No Man‘s Sky but in a way smaller way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    By the way, I do wonder if it wasn't so much that Shadowlands was planned to be shorter but they made it so that if people responded well they could add another afterlife or two, and if not they could just go straight to the First One plane and end it.

    If we end Shadowlands in 9.2 I don't think we have any glaring "missing content" like WoD where stuff obviously just got cancelled.
    Covid breakout was during the ongoing development of Shadowlands. I think Blizzard would have a really bad project planning if they did not even consider the option to just have 9.1 and 9.2 as content patches and end the expansion in on 9.2 or 9.2.5 instead of 9.3.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2021-08-26 at 02:15 PM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  6. #6006
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    They made up this trap themselves. Infinite afterlives, but only four matter and we just get to visit these four plus the Maw - uhm… in which afterlife scenario does this make any sense? So infinite afterlives after all, but only four matter and conveniently those four only have Covenants etc? Uhm… the glaring issues with lore and storytelling were obvious the moment they brought this infinite statement into play.
    This is why you keep cosmology as a mysterious background element. Even if you flesh it out for yourself, you never reveal it all to the reader.

  7. #6007
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Are you sure that venthyr are not modified nightborne?
    I'm fairly sure, I checked them in WoWhead just now.

  8. #6008
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    The Kyrian are modeled after the female Vrykul, both sexes. Venthyr are the only one where the race really "starts from scratch" in terms of their model, though all four races have some unique animations/poses and have male/female.
    The Venthyr use Zandalari animations, actually.

  9. #6009
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    The Venthyr use Zandalari animations, actually.
    Not that I don't believe you, but which ones? They use the same new talking, walking and running animations as far as I can see, as well as shared combat animations between them that the Zandalari lack.

  10. #6010
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    Night Fae do have the satyr-esque dudes that use the Draenai rig. A large chunk of necrolords use the male Kultiran rig as well. I feel those would be suitable.
    Ye I know, but both kyrian and venthyr use models as far as i lnow that arent available to us and they seem more fleshed out in terms of hairstyles etc.

    These gladiators are just dressed up kul tirians.. idk how exciting that is to be fair.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    The Venthyr use Zandalari animations, actually.
    Never knew this.. u sure?
    Please read this blizzard: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...m_source=share also what could have been possible with Nightborne--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLr5dDXn5nE

  11. #6011
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Ye I know, but both kyrian and venthyr use models as far as i lnow that arent available to us and they seem more fleshed out in terms of hairstyles etc.

    These gladiators are just dressed up kul tirians.. idk how exciting that is to be fair.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Never knew this.. u sure?
    New cool undead models that use the Kultiran rig and aren’t obese. What’s not to be excited about?

  12. #6012
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Never knew this.. u sure?
    After double-checking, I was mistaken. It was muddled by the standing animation seeming similar, but they are different.

  13. #6013
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    These gladiators are just dressed up kul tirians.. idk how exciting that is to be fair.
    The males actually have a different kind of walk and both models lack the belly on Kul Tirans.

    It's a similar model to Rexxar who I thought was teasing Mok'nathal as an AR, but it might end up being Maldraxxi. Or Maldraxxi girls are teasing Mok'nathal girls.

  14. #6014
    I wonder if the Jailor got drunk and tickled Sylvanas in her chambers. I want a clip of her getting turned down my HR but it's actually Eye of the Jailor.

  15. #6015
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    The males actually have a different kind of walk and both models lack the belly on Kul Tirans.

    It's a similar model to Rexxar who I thought was teasing Mok'nathal as an AR, but it might end up being Maldraxxi. Or Maldraxxi girls are teasing Mok'nathal girls.
    Well that rexxar model is something else and I was quite suprised how unique it actually is. Do these gladiators share things from rexxar?

    Ye I noticed the belly and it looks a lot better without it. They truly look like real brutes. I am just lost in terms of how these faces would look like. I am thinking a head and what costumization options they would even have.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    After double-checking, I was mistaken. It was muddled by the standing animation seeming similar, but they are different.
    I also checked( but on phone) and it seems like they are actually unique, I would say nightborne come kinda close, but still heavy modified.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    The Kyrian are modeled after the female Vrykul, both sexes. Venthyr are the only one where the race really "starts from scratch" in terms of their model, though all four races have some unique animations/poses and have male/female.

    Kyrian: Female Vrykul
    Sylvari (Night Fae Dryads): Female Draenei
    Venthyr: Brand New (makes sense considering they were the focus of the first raid, want them to be special)
    Maldraxxi Gladiators: Kul Tiran male and female (though male have some unique animations)

    None of them can actually equip armor yet so they clearly weren't ready at launch, but there's a slight chance they'll all become playable (and likely unlockable through max renown: I think this would be really cool and both make sense lorewise for a recruitment thing AND encourage people to roll alts and experience the other covenants).
    We are just waiting for some npc (from the covenants) to say that he or she would like to explore our world.

    In fact dont we already had some one do that?
    Last edited by Alanar; 2021-08-26 at 04:13 PM.
    Please read this blizzard: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...m_source=share also what could have been possible with Nightborne--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLr5dDXn5nE

  16. #6016
    Quote Originally Posted by MoFubuki13 View Post
    I may have come off a bit too strong. From the development side, we are still committed to providing fun experiences for our players (which I hope is obvious, but very well may not be). It's just that you can't say that part out loud when trying to get a high investment tentpole feature approved.
    That commitment doesn't really matter. If management decisions are being made based on bad metrics, that's a fatal condition for a company. The earnestness of the flight crew doesn't matter if they fly the plane right into the ground.

    This style of failure is so common it has a name (Goodhart's Law) and is taught in B-schools, but it still happens. The error is confusing correlation with causation, and reversing the sense of causation. A good game causes engagement, and also retention, but increasing engagement doesn't automatically cause the game to be good (reversed causation), and to therefore cause retention.

    From the outside, the poor reception of SL sure looks like a textbook example of screwing up due to targeting of bad metrics.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2021-08-26 at 04:38 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  17. #6017
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post

    We are just waiting for some npc (from the covenants) to say that he or she would like to explore our world.

    In fact dont we already had some one do that?
    There is definitely one or two Kyrian who say it.

    And yeah, the Maldraxxi Gladiators don't have an actual head yet, so they can do whatever they want with them.

  18. #6018
    Quote Originally Posted by InflaterMouse View Post
    So with all the new cosmetic stuff, anyone besides me like to see a option for the forsaken to be able to stand up straight and not hunch over?
    How about cosmetic quivers for hunters? Such easy wins they could completely implement... Now if you want a quiver you either pick Alleria's bow or farm the current drop from Normal or Heroic quiver that removes the cloak.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    No. On these forums any updates mean an expansion hint.
    Wrathin comes back? Dragon expansion clearly!
    LK part of a quest? Wotlk 2 clearly!
    Sylvanas working with a death master? Shadowlands clearly!

    At the point we're headed for Wrath of the Shdowlands Dragon Isles Lich and tinkers.

  19. #6019
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Shadowlands has been strange so far. You'd expect an expansion about infinite afterlives to have more patch content dedicated to those new afterlife zones, but we're likely going to end up with just Korthia + Zereth Mortis, and no real afterlife exploration post-9.0, which is a shame imo.
    I imagine the original plan was to use the island expedition/argus rifts mechanic to do some of the lesser afterlifes, but I guess negativ feedback on islands led to scrapping that.
    Last edited by Lady Atia; 2021-08-26 at 04:33 PM.

  20. #6020
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    That commitment doesn't really matter. If management decisions are being made based on bad metrics, that's a fatal condition for a company. The earnestness of the flight crew doesn't matter if they fly the plane right into the ground.

    This style of failure is so common it has a name (Goodhart's Law) and is taught in B-schools, but it still happens. The error is confusing correlation with causation, and reversing the sense of causation. A good game causes engagement, and also retention, but increasing engagement doesn't automatically cause the game to be good (reversed causation), and to therefore cause retention.

    From the outside, the poor reception of SL sure looks like a textbook example of screwing up due to targeting of bad metrics.
    Take, for example, monetization in LoL and Dota 2. I have spent thousands on those titles precisely because of how much I enjoy(ed) those games and how unobtrusive the payment options were. The second you move that stuff in my face to try to influence more sales is the second you lose me as a customer. This is why I can't return to SW:TOR or LOTR:O no matter how much I enjoy those games.

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