1. #6301
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Flying does have that effect on the game unfortunately. I guess its hard to implement some of the flying mount game mechanics while it still makes sense and works within the normal gameplay on the ground.

    That is provided people actually agree flying affects gameplay and if people can't agree on that, I have a hard time looking at a Pro flying perspective.
    I cannot imagine changing flying is difficult conceptually. Might be difficult to make it work when it comes to coding, but a version that makes takeoff more of a hassle in hostile areas and changes flying to be based on momentum it should be fine.

    Walking to the top of a mountain, mounting up and using the momentum downards to reach immense speeds should be gratifying. Instead you mount up, move untethered by physics, reach your maximum speed immediately and come to a stop just as abruptly.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  2. #6302
    I had no problem with no flying at launch this expansion. It was fun mastering my covenants zone and developing the travel network.

    BFA was a different story, some of the zones like Drustvar and Nazmir were miserable to travel through even after you’ve “beat” the zone. And the verticality in Dazaralor..

  3. #6303
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Gameplay first = Blizzard listen only to me, duh.

    Blizzard why, oh why you lost your ways from good old days? Where my country gone?
    I mean... the house is practically burning and Blizzard scrambles to splash just about every cup of water they can on the raging flames and you say that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I love the irony of him trying to make the point in the same post he is arguing for the removal of open-world gameplay by adding flying.
    It's really not my problem you and Blizzard can't wrap their heads around how to let people have flying in a way that does not remove anything from the open world. There are plenty of games that did it just fine, but Blizzard are speshul.
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  4. #6304
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I mean... the house is practically burning and Blizzard scrambles to splash just about every cup of water they can on the raging flames and you say that...

    You realize the house is burning outside of WoW issues but you seem to have an axe to grind.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  5. #6305
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I cannot imagine changing flying is difficult conceptually. Might be difficult to make it work when it comes to coding, but a version that makes takeoff more of a hassle in hostile areas and changes flying to be based on momentum it should be fine.
    Given how Blizzard can't properly code certain jumping puzzles, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Their net code basically operates on the the principle of "client is always right unless we really don't want it to" which is great for the fluidity of the game in most cases, but also means the client spends more time desynced from the server than synced by ridiculous factors. When you now have timing sensitve problems and "skill checks" constantly this becomes an issue. Making flying more challenging would most likely be such a skill check, so either it needs to be extremely forgiving like the molten front hyppogryph jousting or you end up constantaly falling off like the Kyrian "fyling" quests. I'll be among the first to agree that flying in WoW is weird and more akin to swimming in the air (ironically the default animation..), but I'm not convinced that giving it momentum, lift, drag, etc. would actually be that easy.

    For the most part the solution to treasure chest and minigames is way simpler and was already done in shadowlands. Put the player in a "can't fly/mount/use skills right now" magic state. Also rogues, druids, demon hunter and to a certain degree hunters can trivialize such content massively as well. Or tanks that can just ride through hordes of enemies and can't be dazed or hurt.
    Last edited by Felis igneus; 2021-08-29 at 04:09 PM.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  6. #6306
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I mean... the house is practically burning and Blizzard scrambles to splash just about every cup of water they can on the raging flames and you say that...
    Showing everything in overdramatized light and pretending it was all sunshine and roses in the past for sure will help in current situation.

  7. #6307
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Given how Blizzard can't properly code certain jumping puzzles, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Their net code basically operates on the the principle of "client is always right unless we really don't want it to" which is great for the fluidity of the game in most cases, but also means the client spends more time desynced from the server than synced by ridiculous factors. When you now have timing sensitve problems and "skill checks" constantly this becomes an issue. Making flying more challenging would most likely be such a skill check, so either it needs to be extremely forgiving like the molten front hyppogryph jousting or you end up constantaly falling off like the Kyrian "fyling" quests. I'll be among the first to agree that flying in WoW is weird and more akin to swimming in the air (ironically the default animation..), but I'm not convinced that giving it momentum, lift, drag, etc. would actually be that easy.

    For the most part the solution to treasure chest and minigames is way simpler and was already done in shadowlands. Put the player in a "can't fly/mount/use skills right now" magic state. Also rogues, druids, demon hunter and to a certain degree hunters can trivialize such content massively as well. Or tanks that can just ride through hordes of enemies and can't be dazed or hurt.
    Flying doesnt need to be massively complicated, but there definitely should be more skill to it. The game manages rising and slowing speed perfectly well, and the engine manages rising velocity form gravity perfectly fine, so I cannot imagine that it where the problem would be.

    The reason for a flying revamp should be to be able to remove the issue with flying where the only realistic option to integrate it in the game is to remove it.
    Currently the game manages to have open-world content be fully relevant by removing flying entirely, and when flying was added the only solution was to again remove flying when it interfered with gameplay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I mean... the house is practically burning and Blizzard scrambles to splash just about every cup of water they can on the raging flames and you say that...

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    It's really not my problem you and Blizzard can't wrap their heads around how to let people have flying in a way that does not remove anything from the open world. There are plenty of games that did it just fine, but Blizzard are speshul.
    Other gmaes manages to integrate flying because it isnt as grossly OP as the one in WoW. In most other games this kind of flying would be called godmode, not balanced flight.

    Had Blizzard changed it to require even the slighest bit of skill, even just enough to know how to take off from an unusual location then it could be balanced perfectly well around pretty much all content the game has.
    But instead flying just untethers you from physics. No obstacle is ever an issue when the game has a button that lets you more freely in all directions from any location that isnt hardcoded to turn that option off.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  8. #6308
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I..don't want to turn this into flying but IMO Flying is here to stay and I think Blizzard need to find a way to make it not so(As dude above me said OP). Cats out of the bag, and we can't go back. Doesn't mean we should just pretend flying has no effect on gameplay.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi

  9. #6309
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    You realize the house is burning outside of WoW issues but you seem to have an axe to grind.
    You kidding?

    Took note of 9.1.5? That's no outside issues, it's them scrambling to salvage playerbase fleeing like mad. No it's not a lawsuit, that's just icing on the cake of their general mismanagement of their IP over last 5 years.
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  10. #6310
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Keep flying, minimize the areas you can fly in with heavy anti-flying mechanics.
    Hard to fly when the zone literally attempts to kill you when you are in the air.

    Trans Rights are Human Rights // Elune Says Queer Rights!


  11. #6311
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Keep flying, minimize the areas you can fly in with heavy anti-flying mechanics.
    Hard to fly when the zone literally attempts to kill you when you are in the air.
    That would only really be an annoyance, and wouldnt really fix the underlying issues that flying has.

    Though then again, an actual revamp to flying mechanics is vanishingly unlikely given the visceral reaction some of hte playerbase seemed to have when even the mere idea that they wouldnt be able to skip past mild inconveniences on the ground were proposed in WoD.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #6312
    What is with the constant and nonstop hateposting? It's tiresome.

    Discuss upcoming content and speculate or fuck off.

  13. #6313
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    What is with the constant and nonstop hateposting? It's tiresome.

    Discuss upcoming content and speculate or fuck off.
    these people are addicted; they're not having fun but don't actually have other hobbies so they just come here to whine about how the one they do have has been ruined

  14. #6314
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    You kidding?

    Took note of 9.1.5? That's no outside issues, it's them scrambling to salvage playerbase fleeing like mad. No it's not a lawsuit, that's just icing on the cake of their general mismanagement of their IP over last 5 years.
    Is it really mismanagement, when their revenue keeps rising? It may be all very well planned business model. Suffer sub loss, but make the games in a way that generates more money (and then fix the known issues to lure people back). Let's not forget whose the boss of Acti-Blizz.
    What's the other explanation for repeating same stuff 3rd expansion in a row?
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  15. #6315
    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoBisque View Post
    these people are addicted; they're not having fun but don't actually have other hobbies so they just come here to whine about how the one they do have has been ruined
    Ehhhhhh?

    What's there to praise in current state of WoW pray tell? That they still have great raiding and did not manage to destroy that one too yet? Good job, I guess?

    One of the things many hope for in 9.2, but realistically 10.0 is that they get over their bullshit of last 5 years that caught up to them and make a game worthy of title World of Warcraft.

    I, personally, am pretty fair about Blizzard - if you look at my history, vast majority of it was positive about Blizzard, even rationalizing their questionable shit. But so it happens that things simply grow on you, there is just one too many failures as of late to defend or rationalize and sometimes, especially for sake of 9.2 and 10.0 - it's better to give them some frank thoughts instead of yet another round of mental gymnastics trying to make things appear better than they really are.

    And by the way, I have fun in WoW in raiding and social aspect that comes with it. Does not mean I automatically have to slurp down all their obvious bullshit in core systems and decisions they do over the years. They just made one too many fuckups for me to shill for them as I used to.

    I don't have expectations for 9.2. But for 10.0? Big ones... Make a fucking good 10.0, then we'll see if we get to reset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Is it really mismanagement, when their revenue keeps rising? It may be all very well planned business model. Suffer sub loss, but make the games in a way that generates more money (and then fix the known issues to lure people back). Let's not forget whose the boss of Acti-Blizz.
    What's the other explanation for repeating same stuff 3rd expansion in a row?
    KEKW...

    I won't even dignify this a response.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  16. #6316
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    KEKW...

    I won't even dignify this a response.
    Sure, if you can't come up with one. That's okay.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  17. #6317
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Sure, if you can't come up with one. That's okay.
    More like it was refuted so many times already that I don't even know how one can put that crap up with a straight face. I'll just put it right here, over last 5 years Activision tripled their MAUs... Blizzard halved and lost much of their leadership in process bailing like rats from the sinking ship even before the lawsuit.

    Great success there, exceptional management. But hey, they can do some remasters and cash shop crap to keep $$ flowing from the dwindling playerbase, that a win, bois.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  18. #6318
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Its none of the above really. this 9.1.5 isn't some scramble unless you think people at Blizz are all mindless drones who speak in "TIME TO MAKE MONEY"
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  19. #6319
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    More like it was refuted so many times already that I don't even know how one can put that crap up with a straight face. I'll just put it right here, over last 5 years Activision tripled their MAUs... Blizzard halved and lost much of their leadership in process bailing like rats from the sinking ship even before the lawsuit.

    Great success there, exceptional management. But hey, they can do some remasters and cash shop crap to keep $$ flowing from the dwindling playerbase, that a win, bois.
    You talking about Acti-Blizz in total? Because blizzard lost 20mil MAUs since 2017 (from 46mil). And we already know that some of the leadership bail was due to already ongoing harassment investigation. And yes, it is a win in the eyes of CEOs and shareholders if you still make money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Its none of the above really. this 9.1.5 isn't some scramble unless you think people at Blizz are all mindless drones who speak in "TIME TO MAKE MONEY"
    No, it's par for the course for xpac. Release features with well known obstacles, then remove them later to retain player base. Only this time it may come earlier than ever due to outside factors.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-08-29 at 06:29 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  20. #6320
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    You talking about Acti-Blizz in total? Because blizzard lost 20mil MAUs since 2017 (from 46mil). And we already know that some of the leadership bail was due to already ongoing harassment investigation. And yes, it is a win in the eyes of CEOs and shareholders if you still make money.
    No, I'm talking Activision only and Blizzard only. Activision got up from ~40m to ~150m, Blizzard from 46m to 20m over same time...

    If you think it's not a failure, just because they manage to somewhat compensate and squeeze a bit more bookings from ever dwindling playerbase. I don't know what to say then.

    This shit is dire and it's result of Blizzard not knowing what the fuck they are doing across their whole business last 5 years. You don't lose half of your fucking customer-base and get a pat on the back for good management, no matter how much you try to massage quarterly report to make performance appear not as horrible as it is.

    "Whelp, despite losing half of our playerbase across all Blizzard games last 5 years, we managed to not lose that much money with tricks and shticks, damn we're good."

    And you tell me management is good - we eat this shit and the good way to approach it is what is happening last 2-3 months with giant shitstorm that will hopefully shake them out of their letargy.
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