1. #6341
    Just noticed they refer to renown 80 as "max renown". They may just mean max as of now, but perhaps because the feature is so definitive (you "maxxed out" your covenant so you can play other) maybe we aren't getting more renown stuff in 9.2?

  2. #6342
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I meant "early", actually.
    Ah, nvm then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    They could still use it. It is an effective time gate, the question is more if they want to keep adding to the covenants as such in 9.2 or will they do the usual and abandon most of it for the (probably) final major patch? Frankly I'm not sure I care much for more champions I have to level once again or unlocking boring conduit upgrades. The 9.1 levels of 41-80 are already kinda forced imho and not very exciting. I guess they could time gate stuff differently if they don't have many small things that they want to lock down, as the campaign might as well just be a weekly thing like in the past. Heck they could even do the thing they did in Suramar and cap it by reputation with fixed gains.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  3. #6343
    The thing about the questionable business decisions is that if it makes money then it is doing something right.
    If witholding seemingly crucial buffs or improvements to core systems is what is needed to keep the playerbase stable, if annoyed, then who knows if it is better in the long-term.
    Sure, it damages the brand and the faith the consumers have in the developers, so it's probably not a good long-term strategy, but since when has corporate culture been about long-term investment anyways.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  4. #6344
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In some Sanctuaryesque place or a Haven
    Posts
    42,540
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Just noticed they refer to renown 80 as "max renown". They may just mean max as of now, but perhaps because the feature is so definitive (you "maxxed out" your covenant so you can play other) maybe we aren't getting more renown stuff in 9.2?
    Mayhaps but, I wouldn't say its set in stone. I wouldn't be upset about it.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi

  5. #6345
    I have a feeling that the return of Tier Sets will be tied to the art team being freed up from covenant themed mounts and outfits. 9.2 could be the end of the renown system as well as the end of expansion.

  6. #6346
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Just noticed they refer to renown 80 as "max renown". They may just mean max as of now, but perhaps because the feature is so definitive (you "maxxed out" your covenant so you can play other) maybe we aren't getting more renown stuff in 9.2?
    Saying max renonwn doesnt preclude them adding more renown later and for the renown neede to swap staying at 80. Though it sure would be construed that way by the playerbase, nothing seems to be as stimulating to the general WOW forumgoer than to take someting said as a developer and applying it to every situation in which it could be even remotely applicable, even better when they get the exact quote wrong like how some on Reddit called Blizzard liars for supposedly going back on not giving heritage armors every X.X.5 patch, despite such a promise never being made.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    I have a feeling that the return of Tier Sets will be tied to the art team being freed up from covenant themed mounts and outfits. 9.2 could be the end of the renown system as well as the end of expansion.
    I doubt the Renown system will go away. I'm sure there will be something that Blizzard can put into it, as rewards beside more Soulbind upgrades. If nothing else they will keep using it to continue gatekeeping the questlines more organically.

    The Renown system is in my opinion the best idea Blizzard has had in years, and I really hope we see something similar in 10.0.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #6347
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    4,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    I have a feeling that the return of Tier Sets will be tied to the art team being freed up from covenant themed mounts and outfits. 9.2 could be the end of the renown system as well as the end of expansion.
    Let's actually hope that sets are coming as promised in SL, because current situation makes promises spoken more than a year ago not a very solid ground.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-08-29 at 07:20 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  8. #6348
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Let's actually hope that sets are coming as promised in SL, because current situation makes words spoken more than a year ago not a very solid ground.
    The work to make them should have already started back when he said that, so unless they straight up decide on making 4 of the sets the generic sets and scrap the rest I doubt they would go back on it.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #6349
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    4,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The work to make them should have already started back when he said that, so unless they straight up decide on making 4 of the sets the generic sets and scrap the rest I doubt they would go back on it.
    I dunno what's up with them, because Dom Shards work very well like sets. Are they testing something? What for? People wanted sets that worked as always for more than a decade.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  10. #6350
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The work to make them should have already started back when he said that, so unless they straight up decide on making 4 of the sets the generic sets and scrap the rest I doubt they would go back on it.
    I maen I wouldn't even mind if sets had a common base theme and they only styled the helmets, shoulders, belts and gloves a bit to reflect the class in question.

    That being said, I think a way bigger problem right now would be to adress the loot issue in M+ and how sets interact with that. Imho the way m+ handles loot needs to be thought through again from the beginning. Having 2 years of hunting the same rubbish is mostly just boring. Also needing to raid to get bonuses in m+ (and PvP) is something that should be addressed by letting each type of gameplay have it's own bonuses that either only work there (only good thing about domination sockets tbh) or have bonuses that are mostly usefull there.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  11. #6351
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I dunno what's up with them, because Dom Shards work very well like sets. Are they testing something? What for? People wanted sets that worked as always for more than a decade.
    I imagine they wanted to test something tier set adjacent. This patch brought the shortcomings of tier sets as gearing back into full force.
    For that matter they probably also wanted something that could work alongside the Box of many things to help nerf Torghast, as well as work as a pseudo-nerf for the raid like they usually like to have.

    As for why gems I think it was just straight up to test a version of Tier sets that might have less inherent problems. Or at least different ones.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #6352
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    No, I'm talking Activision only and Blizzard only. Activision got up from ~40m to ~150m, Blizzard from 46m to 20m over same time...
    Nice manipulation. When you actually see chart that was posted everywhere you can notice few things:

    a) WoW expansions did not change downfall trend at all
    b) if somehow you deny that WoW expansion short term bring shit ton of MAUs (relatively to WoW population), Vanilla Classic launch, easily biggest WoW related launch in history, didn't change trend either, overall MAUs increased just by 1 million for 1 quarter and keep falling after that
    c) we are back to numbers from early 2016
    d) biggest increase was 2016-2017, then sharp drop 2018-2019, now slower decrease 2020-2021

    Did Blizzard release game in 2016 with different target group than RPG/strategy players that could massively expand their playerbase? How this game is performing now? Hmmmmm.

  13. #6353
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Nice manipulation. When you actually see chart that was posted everywhere you can notice few things:

    a) WoW expansions did not change downfall trend at all
    b) if somehow you deny that WoW expansion short term bring shit ton of MAUs (relatively to WoW population), Vanilla Classic launch, easily biggest WoW related launch in history, didn't change trend either, overall MAUs increased just by 1 million for 1 quarter and keep falling after that
    c) we are back to numbers from early 2016
    d) biggest increase was 2016-2017, then sharp drop 2018-2019, now slower decrease 2020-2021

    Did Blizzard release game in 2016 with different target group than RPG/strategy players that could massively expand their playerbase? How this game is performing now? Hmmmmm.
    It's not a manipulation, it's how it is.

    Blizzard did not release anything new for years, their first new game won't be out until 2023 - that's 7 years of nothing. And the few remaining live games they have - they kill off one by one, whether it's HoTS, Overwatch and now even WoW with its current obvious exodus.

    It is beyond me how they even got to this state, why they did nothing with Starcraft IP that's just sitting there gathering dust? Why it took almost a decade to even start talking about D4? Where are new games? Heck, even something like WIII Remaster - which could have been their pride and joy turned into a meme because of neglect for a bigger part of its development.

    You want to tell me that's good management for Blizzard? This is nothing short of a disaster. They don't even have bloody anything good to write in their latest report - except oh look we found this one metric that does not suck and our projects, which won't be a thing for a year plus are on track. Meanwhile Activision spiking.

    At this rate there won't be any Activision-Blizzard. It will be Activision and Blizzard will be just some Activision satellite studio - well deserved outcome.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  14. #6354
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Feralas, Mount Hyal, Quel'Danil Lodge
    Posts
    1,252
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    It's not a manipulation, it's how it is.

    Blizzard did not release anything new for years, their first new game won't be out until 2023 - that's 7 years of nothing. And the few remaining live games they have - they kill off one by one, whether it's HoTS, Overwatch and now even WoW with its current obvious exodus.

    It is beyond me how they even got to this state, why they did nothing with Starcraft IP that's just sitting there gathering dust? Why it took almost a decade to even start talking about D4? Where are new games? Heck, even something like WIII Remaster - which could have been their pride and joy turned into a meme because of neglect for a bigger part of its development.

    You want to tell me that's good management for Blizzard? This is nothing short of a disaster. They don't even have bloody anything good to write in their latest report - except oh look we found this one metric that does not suck and our projects, which won't be a thing for a year plus are on track. Meanwhile Activision spiking.

    At this rate there won't be any Activision-Blizzard. It will be Activision and Blizzard will be just some Activision satellite studio - well deserved outcome.
    So, what was the reason for you to post this in this thread? Look at the topic. Make some drama topic outside of this one
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  15. #6355
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In some Sanctuaryesque place or a Haven
    Posts
    42,540
    I wonder how much influence on the lecraft guy(Guy that isn't at Blizz but is a very......bad person). I was wondering if he might of been a source of some of the system woes.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi

  16. #6356
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I wonder how much influence on the lecraft guy(Guy that isn't at Blizz but is a very......bad person). I was wondering if he might of been a source of some of the system woes.
    And what gives you that idea? He was a senior game designer, not even in a leading position, that would be Morgan Day (sic?). Technically he would be at the pinnicale of the grunt workers without much descision making powers at all. We also don't even know what bad exactly he did or didn't do, so blaming random "bad guy" seems like you are fishing for a scape goat. While seniority usually comes with a bit more weight when it comes to descisions, it means nothing if people flat out out-rank you, at least if those don't absolutely suck at their jobs.

    I also doubt the sudden willingness to change things is related to employees leaving or beeing let go. That seems more like a reaction to the general reception of the game.
    Last edited by Felis igneus; 2021-08-30 at 02:29 AM.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  17. #6357
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    857
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Is it really later? For something that was planned as a core feature for the whole expansion it actually came rather early. Legendaries in Legion went through multiple iterations until the damn vendor finally came at the end of the expansion. Azerite was a bit different, since the 2nd iteration kinda stuck and the system was overshadowed by the 2nd and 3rd system that they stacked on top of it by the end, which will probably not happen this time as domination sockets are already marked with a death date.

    Either way, for a feature of that size the complete break down is actually rather early (we can even mog cross covenant, that usually happens after the current expansion). They really were desperate this time and pulled out all the stops.


    Also discussing such things is very much on topic, the current state of the game and Blizzard's behaviour is pretty much the biggest thing we have to go on as basis for speculation.
    Well tbf it won't be early if 9.2 will be the last Shadowlands content patch.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Ah, nvm then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    They could still use it. It is an effective time gate, the question is more if they want to keep adding to the covenants as such in 9.2 or will they do the usual and abandon most of it for the (probably) final major patch? Frankly I'm not sure I care much for more champions I have to level once again or unlocking boring conduit upgrades. The 9.1 levels of 41-80 are already kinda forced imho and not very exciting. I guess they could time gate stuff differently if they don't have many small things that they want to lock down, as the campaign might as well just be a weekly thing like in the past. Heck they could even do the thing they did in Suramar and cap it by reputation with fixed gains.
    The could easily use the renown system for the next big faction in 9.2. Just instead of farming renown for your Covenant you farm it for ... idk .... "Expedition of Oribos" or something else.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    I maen I wouldn't even mind if sets had a common base theme and they only styled the helmets, shoulders, belts and gloves a bit to reflect the class in question.

    That being said, I think a way bigger problem right now would be to adress the loot issue in M+ and how sets interact with that. Imho the way m+ handles loot needs to be thought through again from the beginning. Having 2 years of hunting the same rubbish is mostly just boring. Also needing to raid to get bonuses in m+ (and PvP) is something that should be addressed by letting each type of gameplay have it's own bonuses that either only work there (only good thing about domination sockets tbh) or have bonuses that are mostly usefull there.
    They could either re-use the pvp sets for M+ or make two more seperate recolours with a elite recolour once you hit 2,3k or something.

  18. #6358
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I wonder how much influence on the lecraft guy(Guy that isn't at Blizz but is a very......bad person). I was wondering if he might of been a source of some of the system woes.
    wasnt lecraft an art dude??

    the system woes are from the lead system designer who sits on twitter with his team saying players are wrong and the problem with their game and if they were all fired there wouldnt be a game
    the dude went full on "oh my god i have to leave twitter because i harrassed a guy that doesnt play the game anymore and he pointed it out in front of thousands"

  19. #6359
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post

    Griftah being in Oribos is far, far worse as far as lore breaches go.
    Eh, honestly, if there's anyone I can see making his way to the afterlife to scam more people, it is him.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    wasnt lecraft an art dude??

    the system woes are from the lead system designer who sits on twitter with his team saying players are wrong and the problem with their game and if they were all fired there wouldnt be a game
    the dude went full on "oh my god i have to leave twitter because i harrassed a guy that doesnt play the game anymore and he pointed it out in front of thousands"
    He was Senior Game Designer, actually.

    Also I see we're back to "let's make flying annoying" idea again. While I agree how flying works at present isn't the best, there's no way they're going to change the system like that. You think the uproar over no flying was bad, just wait.

  20. #6360
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Feralas, Mount Hyal, Quel'Danil Lodge
    Posts
    1,252
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    And what gives you that idea? He was a senior game designer, not even in a leading position, that would be Morgan Day (sic?). Technically he would be at the pinnicale of the grunt workers without much descision making powers at all. We also don't even know what bad exactly he did or didn't do, so blaming random "bad guy" seems like you are fishing for a scape goat. While seniority usually comes with a bit more weight when it comes to descisions, it means nothing if people flat out out-rank you, at least if those don't absolutely suck at their jobs.

    I also doubt the sudden willingness to change things is related to employees leaving or beeing let go. That seems more like a reaction to the general reception of the game.
    Lecraft designed demon hunters for example
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •