1. #6341
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post

    Griftah being in Oribos is far, far worse as far as lore breaches go.
    Eh, honestly, if there's anyone I can see making his way to the afterlife to scam more people, it is him.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    wasnt lecraft an art dude??

    the system woes are from the lead system designer who sits on twitter with his team saying players are wrong and the problem with their game and if they were all fired there wouldnt be a game
    the dude went full on "oh my god i have to leave twitter because i harrassed a guy that doesnt play the game anymore and he pointed it out in front of thousands"
    He was Senior Game Designer, actually.

    Also I see we're back to "let's make flying annoying" idea again. While I agree how flying works at present isn't the best, there's no way they're going to change the system like that. You think the uproar over no flying was bad, just wait.

  2. #6342
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    And what gives you that idea? He was a senior game designer, not even in a leading position, that would be Morgan Day (sic?). Technically he would be at the pinnicale of the grunt workers without much descision making powers at all. We also don't even know what bad exactly he did or didn't do, so blaming random "bad guy" seems like you are fishing for a scape goat. While seniority usually comes with a bit more weight when it comes to descisions, it means nothing if people flat out out-rank you, at least if those don't absolutely suck at their jobs.

    I also doubt the sudden willingness to change things is related to employees leaving or beeing let go. That seems more like a reaction to the general reception of the game.
    Lecraft designed demon hunters for example
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  3. #6343
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Eh, honestly, if there's anyone I can see making his way to the afterlife to scam more people, it is him.



    He was Senior Game Designer, actually.

    Also I see we're back to "let's make flying annoying" idea again. While I agree how flying works at present isn't the best, there's no way they're going to change the system like that. You think the uproar over no flying was bad, just wait.
    Idk why I kept thinking of him as the art guy

    More changes to the flying system will only lead to complaints

  4. #6344
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Eh, honestly, if there's anyone I can see making his way to the afterlife to scam more people, it is him.



    He was Senior Game Designer, actually.

    Also I see we're back to "let's make flying annoying" idea again. While I agree how flying works at present isn't the best, there's no way they're going to change the system like that. You think the uproar over no flying was bad, just wait.
    The thing with flying is that the problem isn't going to be fixed unless Blizzard stands their ground and makes the controversial change.

    Yes it would lead to massive outcry, just as it did in WoD. But if it is something that will make the game better in the long term then it should be done regardless.

    Besides, the point of a potential revamp is to balance flying in such a way that the only option to design around it is to remove it. Or at the very least make it less obvious that there is such a drastic flip from flying to no flying.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #6345
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The thing with flying is that the problem isn't going to be fixed unless Blizzard stands their ground and makes the controversial change.

    Yes it would lead to massive outcry, just as it did in WoD. But if it is something that will make the game better in the long term then it should be done regardless.

    Besides, the point of a potential revamp is to balance flying in such a way that the only option to design around it is to remove it. Or at the very least make it less obvious that there is such a drastic flip from flying to no flying.
    I want them to design zones with flying in mind

    Like in 9.1 flying unlocking elite areas in the main zones with new rares and dailies

  6. #6346
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Idk why I kept thinking of him as the art guy

    More changes to the flying system will only lead to complaints
    Changes to anything will lead to complaints. However as WoD proved, if the system is irreparable then you just need to accept the outrage to make the game better long term.

    After all, if Blizzard hadn't changed flying in WoD then we would probably not have gotten better ground content, nor would we likely see the return of a more vibrant open world content variety like we saw in Legion with Suramar.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #6347
    Pretty sure the idea that the Dragon Isles could be flying islands is a direct response to flying feedback. It could be a way to make flying viable at the start of the expansion (you have to fly from Kalimdor/EK to the islands)

  8. #6348
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Well tbf it won't be early if 9.2 will be the last Shadowlands content patch.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The could easily use the renown system for the next big faction in 9.2. Just instead of farming renown for your Covenant you farm it for ... idk .... "Expedition of Oribos" or something else.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They could either re-use the pvp sets for M+ or make two more seperate recolours with a elite recolour once you hit 2,3k or something.
    It would still be early, because usually this happens with the last patch during the following content draught.

    I also never doubted that they could use if just for whatever they want. Just that the the way it is currently structured is mostly focused on covenant unlocks and a new system would probably be inherently flawed if they had to time gate another 40 unlocks and more via it. Also Blizzard usually abandons core features in favor of new ones during the last patch. Either way, even if they keep the covenants going in 9.2, as I said, I'm not stocked for more conduit unlocks and more goddamn followers that takes ages to level. :/

    As for the last part, the how isn't an issue imho. Obviously reusing the set is the answer. I'm more concered about Blizzard's capability to realize that m+ loot, while powerfull for the average joe, is also boring beyond hope for the duration of an entire expansion. Regrinding the same trinkets isn't exactly stellar entertainment. On top of that raid sets working in M+ always leads the feeling of being woefully underequipped for the task at hand.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  9. #6349
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    I want them to design zones with flying in mind

    Like in 9.1 flying unlocking elite areas in the main zones with new rares and dailies
    If flyings only purpose is unlocking new areas then that could just as easily be achieved with new teleports or flight paths.

    There is no middle ground currently between flying not being available, and flying invalidating most of the ground content. This is why a revamp is needed, to allow Blizzard room to create middle ground options.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Pretty sure the idea that the Dragon Isles could be flying islands is a direct response to flying feedback. It could be a way to make flying viable at the start of the expansion (you have to fly from Kalimdor/EK to the islands)
    That wouldn't make flying viable, that would make flying required. And it wouldn't be needed for the content either, it would just invalidate the little ground content there is.

    Consider for instance the last expansion that tried melding the two, MoP.
    Sure the ridge that you needed flying to unlock was neat in that it somewhat organically segmented the zone, but the content placed there didn't escape the inherent problems of flying. That quests there looked the same as all quests with flying available. You descend down directly on the exact enemy you want, avoiding everything around it, kill it move by up then move on to the next.

    As I said before, there is no middle ground between flying and no flying.
    Compare to other games, a middle ground might be that flying is not available near enemies, so as to prevent the exact thing I said, it might be momentum based to prevent just being able to take off from anywhere. It might make it inconvenient to land just anywhere to prevent the issue of landing directly on your objective.

    Content based around flying can work in wow, just not with this version of flying.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #6350
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The thing with flying is that the problem isn't going to be fixed unless Blizzard stands their ground and makes the controversial change.

    Yes it would lead to massive outcry, just as it did in WoD. But if it is something that will make the game better in the long term then it should be done regardless.

    Besides, the point of a potential revamp is to balance flying in such a way that the only option to design around it is to remove it. Or at the very least make it less obvious that there is such a drastic flip from flying to no flying.
    And as we say the outcry was enough to make them reverse. I would imagine drastic changes would result in similar outcry.

    As someone else said, the cat is out of the bag here. You can't go back on how it is. The time to have thought about this was when TBC was in development, not now, after its been an established function for, what, 14 years?

  11. #6351
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    It would still be early, because usually this happens with the last patch during the following content draught.

    I also never doubted that they could use if just for whatever they want. Just that the the way it is currently structured is mostly focused on covenant unlocks and a new system would probably be inherently flawed if they had to time gate another 40 unlocks and more via it. Also Blizzard usually abandons core features in favor of new ones during the last patch. Either way, even if they keep the covenants going in 9.2, as I said, I'm not stocked for more conduit unlocks and more goddamn followers that takes ages to level. :/

    As for the last part, the how isn't an issue imho. Obviously reusing the set is the answer. I'm more concered about Blizzard's capability to realize that m+ loot, while powerfull for the average joe, is also boring beyond hope for the duration of an entire expansion. Regrinding the same trinkets isn't exactly stellar entertainment. On top of that raid sets working in M+ always leads the feeling of being woefully underequipped for the task at hand.
    The renown system is inherently reward based, so all it would need are rewards, no matter how minor.
    Soulbinds are one thing, but there is also questlines, one time rewards, followers for mission table. It could give a recolor of a generic set, or even pets.
    Not to mention that I could just as easily give rewards for whatever new quest hub.
    Maybe renown 100 gives a vendor that lets you exchange anima for unique rewards, or renown 90 gives a movement speed upgrade.

    That is why I love the renown system. It's so incredibly versatile as a reward system.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #6352
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    If flyings only purpose is unlocking new areas then that could just as easily be achieved with new teleports or flight paths.

    There is no middle ground currently between flying not being available, and flying invalidating most of the ground content. This is why a revamp is needed, to allow Blizzard room to create middle ground options.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That wouldn't make flying viable, that would make flying required. And it wouldn't be needed for the content either, it would just invalidate the little ground content there is.

    Consider for instance the last expansion that tried melding the two, MoP.
    Sure the ridge that you needed flying to unlock was neat in that it somewhat organically segmented the zone, but the content placed there didn't escape the inherent problems of flying. That quests there looked the same as all quests with flying available. You descend down directly on the exact enemy you want, avoiding everything around it, kill it move by up then move on to the next.

    As I said before, there is no middle ground between flying and no flying.
    Compare to other games, a middle ground might be that flying is not available near enemies, so as to prevent the exact thing I said, it might be momentum based to prevent just being able to take off from anywhere. It might make it inconvenient to land just anywhere to prevent the issue of landing directly on your objective.

    Content based around flying can work in wow, just not with this version of flying.
    But the ground content is already trivial
    WoD tried making difficult world content and it got wrecked during the first patch because unless it scales that’s what happens

    Flying doesn’t really take away from my play style because I spent 6 months on the ground and I’m over it.

    They used to design content with flying in mind and that was fun now it is just kind of a cheat code but it’s also something you need to play the content to get

  13. #6353
    Wonder if we'll get any news or PTR today? I know they don't usually do this on Monday, but who knows?

  14. #6354
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    And as we say the outcry was enough to make them reverse. I would imagine drastic changes would result in similar outcry.

    As someone else said, the cat is out of the bag here. You can't go back on how it is. The time to have thought about this was when TBC was in development, not now, after its been an established function for, what, 14 years?
    WoD changed stuff. Just because we are able to fly halfway through the expansion doesn't stop the game from having improved by leaps and bounds in open world content since the developers no longer has to immediately consider flying superceding other movement options.
    Suramar is a zone that is tangible proof of the benefits reaped from the massively unpopular choice in WoD.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #6355
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    Wonder if we'll get any news or PTR today? I know they don't usually do this on Monday, but who knows?
    If they're really desperate, maybe.

    But otherwise I'm guessing Wednesday-Thursday.

  16. #6356
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Changes to anything will lead to complaints. However as WoD proved, if the system is irreparable then you just need to accept the outrage to make the game better long term.

    After all, if Blizzard hadn't changed flying in WoD then we would probably not have gotten better ground content, nor would we likely see the return of a more vibrant open world content variety like we saw in Legion with Suramar.
    If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas

    They didn’t stick to their guns in WoD they outright redesigned the game to allow flying because taking away the enjoyment of some players for others to feel fair and equal has never helped this game at all and we have proof of that right now in SL lol

  17. #6357
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Changes to anything will lead to complaints. However as WoD proved, if the system is irreparable then you just need to accept the outrage to make the game better long term.

    After all, if Blizzard hadn't changed flying in WoD then we would probably not have gotten better ground content, nor would we likely see the return of a more vibrant open world content variety like we saw in Legion with Suramar.
    I completely disagree with that. There are plenty of ways around flying for the very few minor things that would be disturbed by it. The vast majority is just farming, which should simply be addressed by nerfing that damned sky golem (and druids) into the ground. The main purpose of the overworld is questing and at endgame to do WQs, and there it's just wasting more of our time getting around, to the point that they have to pepper the zones with flight points awkwardly standing alone in the middle of nowhere.

    It seems like you desperately try to sacifice flying because you somehow think it's the big thing that is stopping your precious would revamp. The few treasures could be handled in a differnt manner like the Revendreth/Korthia puzzles as well as more indoor locations.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  18. #6358
    I'm still wondering if 9.1.5 will have no heritage armor at all, or if they simply haven't mentioned it yet? I'm not naive enough to assume the latter at this point.

  19. #6359
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I'm still wondering if 9.1.5 will have no heritage armor at all, or if they simply haven't mentioned it yet? I'm not naive enough to assume the latter at this point.
    They'd have mentioned it in the patch preview if heritage sets were coming.

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  20. #6360
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    They'd have mentioned it in the patch preview if heritage sets were coming.
    I think so too.

    Rip heritage armor.

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