1. #7441
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    For one, for some reason people can't fathom the idea that a class doesn't have to fit into classic D&D archetypes and wows Bard concept would just follow the same design philosophies like any other existing class.

    And two, warcraft just never introduced its own take on a Bard class concept.
    Not even as a joke unit, like the WC3 Brewmaster.
    And since every class we have is based on WC3 units (even if just roughly), its very unlikely to happen. (However, with the change in leadership at Blizzard this could change)
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Kod...(Warcraft_III)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I think the problem with the bard is that either you try to stay true to its roots as a class that buffs others, in which case it clashes with the design philosophy of classes in wow. Or you try to change it to fit, in which case all you are really making is a rogue or hunter that happens to carry an instrument.

    Bard isn't even like other proposed classes in that it lacks grounding on WoW. What it lacks is a possible way for the class to work in the framework of WoW without the very fabric of wow combat changing with it. As it stands it can only really be a healer and nothing else.
    I very strongly disagree. You are falling into the same trap that Arafal mentions above. D&D Bard is a gish support, so it revolves around support and then has some wizard-y bits and some rogue/ranger bits.

    There is no reason for a theoretical WoW bard to follow this approach, just like wow priests aren't based around channeled AoE healing. This is actually a narrow-mindedness I see from a huge portion of people talking about bard, even many of the people who come up with "bard" class concepts: they can only view bard as a minstrel carrying a lute and doing buff/debuff magic.

    The bard and sound-magic NPCs that already exist in the game typically don't play that support role, nor are they instrument carrying entertainers. They use that sound and music magic for outright offense or regular defense/healing.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Imp...zier_Zor%27lok
    Inhale — Imperial Vizier Zor'lok takes a large breath to fill his lungs. Inhale increases the damage of Exhale by 100% for each stack present and lasts until Exhale triggers with 3 or more stacks.

    Exhale — Imperial Vizier Zor'lok selects a random player and screams at them, inflicting Physical damage and stunning them for 6 sec. The first player between Imperial Vizier Zor'lok and the initial target suffers additional Physical damage every 0.5 seconds.

    Song of the Empress — When Imperial Vizier Zor'lok finishes a transition he will raise his voice in praise to the empress. Failing to engage Imperial Vizier Zor'lok in melee combat will result in him inflicting Physical damage to all players until they die. Engaging Imperial Vizier Zor'lok in melee combat will end this effect.

    Attenuation — Imperial Vizier Zor'lok emits a dizzying series of sonic rings that travel outward from him in a spiraling pattern. Sonic rings inflict 138,750 to 161,250 Physical damage to all targets in their path. In 10 and 25 player Heroic Difficulty, Attenuation also sends out Sonic Pulses. Sonic Pulses inflict 277,500 to 322,500 Physical damage to all targets in their path.

    Force and Verve — Imperial Vizier Zor'lok shouts with pure volume to inflict 55,200 to 64,800 physical damage to all players every 1 seconds for 10 sec. Players standing in Noise Cancelling zones suffer 60% less damage from this ability.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The...Unending_Voice
    Reverberating Refrain — Upon reaching 100 energy, Signe sings of the end for 7 sec, pushing all players away from her location. Upon completion, Signe crescendoes and inflicts 66100 Shadow damage to all players further than 10 yds, causing them to flee in fear for 6 sec.

    Song of Dissolution — Signe sings a shredding song that intensifies every 1.5 sec for 6 sec. This effect inflicts 2203 Shadow damage every 1 sec for 5 sec. This effect stacks.

    Soulful Blast — Signe blasts her target with dark energy, inflicting 33050 Shadow damage.
    There's really zero reason a hypothetical bard class in wow needs to be a hybrid healer or buffer. I'm sure it would have a healing spec, but the other two specs could very easily be typical ranged DPS specs, one focusing on "song" like the above spells minus Attenuation, and the other focusing on raw sound magic, like Attenuation or the abilities of Murmur and Atramedes.

    A WoW bard is going to want to play like a wow class, not be a port of existing bard mechanics from another game/tabletop.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2021-09-16 at 03:37 PM.

  2. #7442
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    That isn't a Bard, that's a dude riding a Kodo while randomly hammering some drums.
    To equate them to Bards is as ridiculous as saying that Bards are already playable, because priests have one hymn spell.

    I want the guy from something like this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP9eGesY45M

    Or this:
    https://i.redd.it/lhmq7wasoe261.jpg

    Or this:
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Russel_the_Bard

    Or this:
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/66...424836d7aa.png

    Or this:
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Elite_Tauren_Chieftain

    etc.

    To be expanded upon as a combat ready class.
    Perhaps something akin to this:

    Spells that are mentioned but not shown are Baseline abilities that are showcased on another image
    Last edited by Arafal; 2021-09-16 at 04:04 PM.

    Trans Rights are Human Rights // Elune Says Queer Rights!


  3. #7443
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    That isn't a Bard, that's a dude riding a Kodo while randomly hammering some drums.
    To equate them to Bards is as ridiculous as saying that Bards are already playable, because priests have one hymn spell.
    It's not a dude randomly hammering some drums any more than your picture has a dude randomly hammering drums. It's a musical buffing unit. That is as much a precursor bard NPC as rogues(some dude randomly being invisible) are a precursor Rogue NPC.


    Also, I'm gonna be brutally honest here: This is the exact reason why so many people do not take Bard seriously as a possible class. Because you want to stick a jester, or meme glowing guitar shredder into the game instead of an actual class.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2021-09-16 at 04:18 PM.

  4. #7444
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    It's not a dude randomly hammering some drums any more than your picture has a dude randomly hammering drums.
    I think there's pretty big difference when one depicts an actual musician and the other utilizes drums for a singular, niche purpose.

    But you got me on the rogue unit tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Also, I'm gonna be brutally honest here: This is the exact reason why so many people do not take Bard seriously as a possible class. Because you want to stick a jester, or meme glowing guitar shredder into the game instead of an actual class.
    Hun, those are just depictions from the franchise itself.

    I could've also just used non-warcraft related art like:
    etc.
    (oh look! Suddenly they don't look as comical.)

    I didn't even include a jester, so idk what you are on about there.
    Even if i did, how the hell would they be an issue?

    The class can be designed as comical or as serious as one wishes.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2021-09-16 at 04:35 PM.

    Trans Rights are Human Rights // Elune Says Queer Rights!


  5. #7445
    Imagine having a humanoid "pet" you could transmog and customize as a bard. Some kind of dancer/partner

  6. #7446
    Quote Originally Posted by Rootsbum View Post
    Imagine having a humanoid "pet" you could transmog and customize as a bard. Some kind of dancer/partner
    Great idea, Blizzard could use a new slavery feature controversy in WoW to take the pressure off the sexual harassment scandal.

  7. #7447
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Those are just depictions from the franchise itself.
    I mean, 1) No. Two are fanart for Hearthstone, and one is a live action commercial.
    But 2) They are a very specific sort of depiction.
    how the hell would they be an issue?
    I just explained exactly that:
    This is the exact reason why so many people do not take Bard seriously as a possible class.
    You do you, but then also realize that this is part of the answer for the question that started this conversation:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    So, today in the Maw, Winslow Swan the Maldraxxi bard made me realize something... why don't more people expect Bard as a class? They keep adding musical instrument animations over time (I know harp and lute are used this expansion, there's flute animations and also accordion) and it also is a very "grounded" class that can fit in any expansion.
    That people do not take bard seriously, because other people present bard as a guy singing jokes in rhyme (this was the jester comment by the way, not a literal bell hat wearing jester), or as some cartoony adaptation of metal tropes into something like ETC, so that is all that people see the class as, and then take the stance that bard can't, and more importantly shouldn't be added as a class.

  8. #7448
    If we get a Bard class that is in anyway not Guitar Hero I don't want it.


  9. #7449
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    If we get a Bard class that is in anyway not Guitar Hero I don't want it.
    Ah, back when they put effort into their April fools jokes.

  10. #7450
    If new class isn't Dark Ranger, color me surprised i guess. After all of development around Sylvanas and her pain and now she is good and dandy; its time that she teach us something.
    I want these classes in new x-pac Necromancer,RuneMaster,Warden,BladeMaster,DarkRanger,Dragonsworn,Alchemist,Bard,Spellbreak er

  11. #7451
    When will the next Addon be announced? February?

  12. #7452
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidX View Post
    When will the next Addon be announced? February?
    Most likely at Blizzconline. Can't remember exactly when, but February sounds about right.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #7453
    Finally got around to checking out the new transmog stuff from timewalking and I wasn't aware the Aegis of Aggramar and the Draenei bow from Argus were available too, so that was a pleasant surprise.

    Doubly so that those glaive-like weapons are still a 1h sword at that, too. I figured either glaive or two-hander. Those will look hilarious sheathed (apparently they go on the hip right now too).

  14. #7454
    I'm unironically gonna rage the fuck out if they make that glaive like weapon from the timewalking vendor a DH only thing.

  15. #7455
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcinatoss View Post
    I'm unironically gonna rage the fuck out if they make that glaive like weapon from the timewalking vendor a DH only thing.
    I'm not too worried, as setting it as a sword lets a lot more people use it (and lets DHs still use them too).

    Though like I said I had expected them as two-handers more than anything else due to the size.

  16. #7456
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Or it could be the introducion of the support class? Could also be a natural way to fix toxic "dmg meter fanatics". Don't get me wrong, details is great for guilds/premades, but I always have to cringe when I have to do LFR for transmog and people flaming each other for low dps/hps lmao.
    They won't introduce one Support Class, though. Doing that has to be paired with 4th specs accross the board. And that's way too much work for late-life WoW, especially late-life WoW if they're doing a 1-60 revamp.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    If we get a Bard class that is in anyway not Guitar Hero I don't want it.

    https://i.imgur.com/Ewlf6QJ.png[/IMG]
    Not Guitar Hero, but if Blizz was a good company they'd take a look at what FF14 did with Dancer and copy that for songs.



    For those that don't play Dancer, when you hit the "Dance" button your main 4 rotational abilities get replaced by various dance steps that you hit the glowing on 2/3 times and then hit the Dance button again to deliver the AoE and buff.

    Could be a less obnoxious way of doing the "Guitar Hero" type mechanic. Where you hit the Perform button and then hit the couple glowing buttons as a combo then hit the perform button again to deliver the... whatever.
    WoW has Cancer. First you cut out the cancer (abusive devs), then you assign an aggressive treatment plan (major design rework) to save it.

    Or you just let it die because that's too expensive.

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  17. #7457
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    They won't introduce one Support Class, though. Doing that has to be paired with 4th specs accross the board. And that's way too much work for late-life WoW, especially late-life WoW if they're doing a 1-60 revamp.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not Guitar Hero, but if Blizz was a good company they'd take a look at what FF14 did with Dancer and copy that for songs.



    For those that don't play Dancer, when you hit the "Dance" button your main 4 rotational abilities get replaced by various dance steps that you hit the glowing on 2/3 times and then hit the Dance button again to deliver the AoE and buff.

    Could be a less obnoxious way of doing the "Guitar Hero" type mechanic. Where you hit the Perform button and then hit the couple glowing buttons as a combo then hit the perform button again to deliver the... whatever.
    In FFXIV you have a really chunky minimum cooldown though, rhytm based stuff wouldnt really work as well unless the comabt was tuned entirely differently from the rest.

    Besides, the problem with Bard is that while it could become a new support class, it would by design either be required or useless. When it comes to support there isnt a middle ground, either content is tuned with it in mind or it isnt.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  18. #7458
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    In FFXIV you have a really chunky minimum cooldown though, rhytm based stuff wouldnt really work as well unless the comabt was tuned entirely differently from the rest.
    Much like ninja seals, the dance steps have a reduced cooldown. In this case 1.0 secs. Works perfectly fine.. in fact it only really works because of the short cooldown that makes it fluid.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
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  19. #7459
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    We probably already had some, we just don't know about it yet.
    You mean that you know it right?

  20. #7460
    Herald of the Titans Valysar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcinatoss View Post
    I'm unironically gonna rage the fuck out if they make that glaive like weapon from the timewalking vendor a DH only thing.
    That's not a glaive, it's a 1H sword (so, can be bought with any Strenght/Agi spec that can buy sword), and btw right now, we can't unlock the xmog, hope it's a bug

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