1. #7501
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    That won't really change anything significantly. The pandemic is the factor that matters the most.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi

  2. #7502
    I find the pandemic excuse to be pretty lame at this point. Please look at what SquareEnix is delivering with Endwalker, an expansion that really and completely was developed during the pandemic and lockdowns for the most part (Blizzard must have started work on Shadowlands months before Blizzcon, so most parts should have been developed and conceptually finalized before COVID became prevalent) and then look at what WoW is doing at this point. Yes, Endwalker was delayed by three months, but so was Shadowlands, just that it was a mere month (Shadowbringers > Endwalker has basically the same length as BfA > Shadowlands).

    They had huge problems before COVID, they just haven’t been as visible. But with COVID the entire construct became cracks and well, with the lawsuit it broke. Now get that back to normal work. Here’s to hoping that they really pour EVERYTHING into the next expansion and start listening to player feedback in beta and not just on the PTR for 10.1.5.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2021-09-20 at 10:03 PM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  3. #7503
    The pandemic might be an excuse, but no worse than thinking a different game, developed by a different team, in a completely different country at a different time is somehow comparable in how hard they got hit by a pandemic.

    The argument is that SL is terrible partially on account of it's theme, but mostly because the delays have caused players to be left adriftm not knowing how long is left of the expansion, how long until they get more stuff, and of course general burnout being a problem when you are waiting so long.

    Imagine for instance if we got everything we have now, but instead of waiting for 9.1.5, we would already be in 9.2. We would have had all the changes already, we would likely already know what 9.3 would be, and the forums would be getting excited for 10.0.
    None of that would really change the expansion specifically, but it would have made a world of difference when you play. Instead of getting burnt out on Nathria players would have been more reinvigorated by Sanctum earlier, and instead of complaining about grind we would have likely already moved past that.

    The pandemic has impacted WoW massively, and excuse or not it is true.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  4. #7504
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I find the pandemic excuse to be pretty lame at this point. Please look at what SquareEnix is delivering with Endwalker, an expansion that really and completely was developed during the pandemic and lockdowns for the most part (Blizzard must have started work on Shadowlands months before Blizzcon, so most parts should have been developed and conceptually finalized before COVID became prevalent) and then look at what WoW is doing at this point. Yes, Endwalker was delayed by three months, but so was Shadowlands, just that it was a mere month (Shadowbringers > Endwalker has basically the same length as BfA > Shadowlands).

    They had huge problems before COVID, they just haven’t been as visible. But with COVID the entire construct became cracks and well, with the lawsuit it broke. Now get that back to normal work. Here’s to hoping that they really pour EVERYTHING into the next expansion and start listening to player feedback in beta and not just on the PTR for 10.1.5.
    1. SL launch was delayed month (40 days). I would say SL overall is delayed ~3 months together with 9.1. Beside, this discussion is pointless. No one will pay Blizzard if they have nothing to do in game, no matter even if they come up with best excuse in the world.

    2. That's current bullshit from community. They didn't give you all covenants at once, so they didn't listen to feedback. Now some facts:

    - community was split about covenant thing
    - Blizzard listened to shit ton of feedback between 8.3 and 9.0 - AP, legendaries, titanforging, PVP vendors (I feel stupid to repeat this 100th time, but somehow you "forget" about it), imo in many places it was mistake to listen to community
    - SL was received well during launch, first drought, then 9.1 story, then scandal created summer shitshow
    - they make launch restrictions on purpose, so they have something to give you with small cost when situation is bad or near end of expac; how they could bring back people if all 9.1.5 changes were already in place? it's not like it would stop drought issues
    - 9.1.5 doesn't reinvent SL systems at all 8.2 style.

  5. #7505
    Japan was one of the first to be hit by Covid lol, way before America.

  6. #7506
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Japan was one of the first to be hit by Covid lol, way before America.
    Japan is also not America. It has a different culture, both generally but more importantly in regards to work.
    Most importantly though the pandemic hit Shadowlands just right for it to really impact it. Covid might have impacted Square Enix just as bad, but it isnt really noticeable since the release cycle was more favorable compared to when it would have hit.

    I have also not seen any reports on the apartment availability being as terrible for Japanese developers as it is for those working in California. WFH is a solution, but it's highly dependant on how good your ability to work from home actually is. For some it's better than working in an office, for some it's far, far worse.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #7507
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Japan was one of the first to be hit by Covid lol, way before America.
    It also didn't have a blithering idiot helming the country at the time. It's not just about when they got hit.

  8. #7508
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Japan was one of the first to be hit by Covid lol, way before America.
    While that is true, Japan wasn't as negatively impacted by it as America was. Japan took it seriously from the get go plus already had a culture custom of wearing masks to avoid the spread of germs when sick. And then there's the work culture, which is abysmally more demanding with longer hours and productivity than America's.

  9. #7509
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It also didn't have a blithering idiot helming the country at the time. It's not just about when they got hit.
    I'm not expert in US politics, but as far I know states supporting this "blithering idiot" are against pointless lockdowns, while California went extremely in other direction - and results are similar.

    But it's pretty pointless who got hit first since every office switched to working from home around same time.

  10. #7510
    So breaking the wheel of death is meant to give the universe true free will, right? So essentially breaking fate.

    Destiny and fate are pretty much governed by time.

    So what if w/e shenanigans zovaal does in 9.2 to achieve his goals, is ultimate stopped, but drastically tampers with time.

    What if this is what causes nozdormu to go crazy and create the infinite dragonflight. Then this somehow ties into us going into the dragon isles to fix it with the the bronze dragons leading the charge.

  11. #7511
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    So breaking the wheel of death is meant to give the universe true free will, right? So essentially breaking fate.

    Destiny and fate are pretty much governed by time.

    So what if w/e shenanigans zovaal does in 9.2 to achieve his goals, is ultimate stopped, but drastically tampers with time.

    What if this is what causes nozdormu to go crazy and create the infinite dragonflight. Then this somehow ties into us going into the dragon isles to fix it with the the bronze dragons leading the charge.
    Sylvanas wanted free will for herself is all we know for certain. We assume this is because she cannot reconcile how her mortal life is going to lead to eternal damnation but that is a different conversation.

    Zovaal just wants to rule everything. He doesnt seem to want free will at all except for himself alone. His plans essentially boils down to destroy creation and rule over the ashes.

    Of course, we don't really know much of anything about Zovaals plans except the vague notion that he wants to destroy and/or rule existence. In a better written story we would know basic stuff like this already, but sadly this is not the experience we are currently living.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #7512
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    So breaking the wheel of death is meant to give the universe true free will, right? So essentially breaking fate.

    Destiny and fate are pretty much governed by time.

    So what if w/e shenanigans zovaal does in 9.2 to achieve his goals, is ultimate stopped, but drastically tampers with time.

    What if this is what causes nozdormu to go crazy and create the infinite dragonflight. Then this somehow ties into us going into the dragon isles to fix it with the the bronze dragons leading the charge.
    That is presuming Time even plays a factor. That said when Chains of Domination cinematic came out the portal Zovaal made(At the end when he is now Super Zovaal) reminded me of the Infinite Dragonflight. No idea why, probably just a concidence


    Of course, we don't really know much of anything about Zovaals plans except the vague notion that he wants to destroy and/or rule existence. In a better written story we would know basic stuff like this already, but sadly this is not the experience we are currently living.
    Its pretty damn obvious. He's the maker of the Lich King and what did the Lich King like to say in ICC "in the end you will all serve me" Same rhetoric just on a universal scale. He even says it "I will create a new reality where all shall serve me." It isn't rocket science.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2021-09-21 at 05:13 PM.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  13. #7513
    Sure Zovaal wants to be the dictator of this new reality, other wise it'd be chaos, but it could still be based off of the same principles he sold to sylvanas.

    Perhaps the idea that fate is the ultimate path, even for cosmic beings, is what rubs Zovaal the wrong way, that everything for everyone is meant to happen a certain way and then you're still condemned to w/e after life despite not really being in control of your actions since ultimately you're just a meat puppet and time is the puppeteer.

    Only by living outside of time can you have true freedom.

    If you watch Loki I think it makes more sense.
    Last edited by Varx; 2021-09-21 at 06:28 PM.

  14. #7514
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    That is presuming Time even plays a factor. That said when Chains of Domination cinematic came out the portal Zovaal made(At the end when he is now Super Zovaal) reminded me of the Infinite Dragonflight. No idea why, probably just a concidence




    Its pretty damn obvious. He's the maker of the Lich King and what did the Lich King like to say in ICC "in the end you will all serve me" Same rhetoric just on a universal scale. He even says it "I will create a new reality where all shall serve me." It isn't rocket science.
    It's obvious what he wants in one sense, but figuring him out as a character is basically impossible with the information given.
    We know he was the previous arbiter in a vague sense, and we know he attempted an insurrection that failed leading to his imprisonment. But on his actual plans we only know that the Primus claimed he wanted to make everyone serve, and that he wanted forbidden knowledge left behind by those that created the Shadowlands.

    Sure, it's easy to know his plans in the vague sense that we know he is planning something that will at least be equivalent to death in all relevant ways, but we are far from knowing enough to really call Zovaal more than a one-dimensional villain.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #7515
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Its pretty damn obvious. He's the maker of the Lich King and what did the Lich King like to say in ICC "in the end you will all serve me" Same rhetoric just on a universal scale. He even says it "I will create a new reality where all shall serve me." It isn't rocket science.
    That's not a plan. That's a goal. We know next to nothing about his plans besides the parts we've seen happen.

  16. #7516
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It also didn't have a blithering idiot helming the country at the time. It's not just about when they got hit.
    numbers under current pres are just as bad

    American culture is just shit and the "leaders" are happy to just throw away our lives to make a quick buck

    also lol @ people who think blizzard's most profitable game is going to go into maintenance mode because that person personally dislikes an expansion. Get over yourselves

  17. #7517
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    In no future they will wait almost an entire year from now on to announce the next expansion, lol. They'll announce it ASAP (meaning as soon as they have meaningful stuff to show, more than what they had ready for 9.1 when they announced it).

    Right now I'm more interested in when 9.1.5 will be live as it has basically zero new content.
    I didnt think they would delay it? I was quoting someone that did.

  18. #7518
    I've been concentrating on the reality that 9.1.5 is in Late October and the appeal to the public event will be around Mid-November where they outline their plans going ahead while probably showing off a CGI Cinematic, although there's some inkling that BFA's "CGI Cinematic during the Games' Cycle" were actually a "Last Hurrah" by the Cinematics Team as their budget may have been cut and only be used for Expansion Reveal Cinematics. So it is hard to tell. I would very much hope that's not the case as more CGI Cinematics would be very much preferential at this point.

    I think in Blizzards' best interest it would be to do something big info wise in November, I do not believe in the info drought lasting until February's Blizzcon Event. It would affect their consumers and numbers far too much. However I feel we're in No Man's Land right now as there's no Ion interview by PCGamer to tell us to be ready for the next patch info cycle. We know 9.1.5 is most likely set for Mid/Late October and Classic Fresh news will be given soon. But, again I just do not see PR people at Blizzard leaving Q3 and Q4 without any hype for their properties as Overwatch is previewing Overwatch 2 at the Overwatch League Playoffs and Finals this week. It would be odd if they just leave WoW players without information for the remaining months of the year.

  19. #7519
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    If they were doing something "big info wise" in November they wouldn't have cancelled Blizzcon.

    If we see anything in November it'll be the announcement of 9.2, 9.3 and 10.0 news are for sure not until 2022.
    WoW has Cancer. First you cut out the cancer (abusive devs), then you assign an aggressive treatment plan (major design rework) to save it.

    Or you just let it die because that's too expensive.

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  20. #7520
    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    I've been concentrating on the reality that 9.1.5 is in Late October and the appeal to the public event will be around Mid-November where they outline their plans going ahead while probably showing off a CGI Cinematic, although there's some inkling that BFA's "CGI Cinematic during the Games' Cycle" were actually a "Last Hurrah" by the Cinematics Team as their budget may have been cut and only be used for Expansion Reveal Cinematics. So it is hard to tell. I would very much hope that's not the case as more CGI Cinematics would be very much preferential at this point.

    I think in Blizzards' best interest it would be to do something big info wise in November, I do not believe in the info drought lasting until February's Blizzcon Event. It would affect their consumers and numbers far too much. However I feel we're in No Man's Land right now as there's no Ion interview by PCGamer to tell us to be ready for the next patch info cycle. We know 9.1.5 is most likely set for Mid/Late October and Classic Fresh news will be given soon. But, again I just do not see PR people at Blizzard leaving Q3 and Q4 without any hype for their properties as Overwatch is previewing Overwatch 2 at the Overwatch League Playoffs and Finals this week. It would be odd if they just leave WoW players without information for the remaining months of the year.
    I mean, it isnt really like the BfA CGI cinematics were ever seemingly more than a unique thing Blizzard might do in the future, so saying it was their last hurrah doesnt really seem all that fair. Wwe had always only gotten them for trailers, we then briefly got a few more with significantly lower quality the trailers, and now we seem to have gotten a single small one in addition to the trailer for SL.

    I feel Blizzard is going to wait until 9.1.5 is close to ready to launch to give more info on the road forwards. Seems fitting that they are rationing hype for the inevitable drought coming after 9.1.5. Afterall, that patch will almost certainly be the last bit of content added outside maybe some hotfixes this year. Even assuming a best case scenario of a short PTR for 9.1.5 and 9.2 replacing it immediately afterwards that would still place the earliest likely release for 9.2 right in the middle of the Holiday season.
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