1. #7541
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felis igneus View Post
    Do you honestly thing they would have the balls to write something like someone having a harem after all of this? Please, get real.
    No, they wouldn't, but it has nothing to do with current scandal. It's just a general climate we got now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    "Why do you care!!!!?!!?!?!?!?!!"
    Blizzard sure seems to care. Stop it with this intellectually dishonest deflecting in Blizzard's defense.
    Sure, but people nowadays get offended way to often and way to quick for w/e reason. Again, NO ONE would notice the boobie picture change if not for the news feed, but now they did and treat it as some kind of a huge offence/threat, when in reality it has no effect on their lives and game.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  2. #7542
    Blizzard treats their average player like we're the employees who've groped and harassed women. As if we can't see a painting of a woman with slight cleavage and, I dunno.. plan cubicle crawls with all our buddies? It's such projection. It's Blizzard that screwed up here, but its player base are treated as if/equal to the actual perpetrators.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Sure, but people nowadays get offended way to often and way to quick for w/e reason. Again, NO ONE would notice the boobie picture change if not for the news feed, but now they did and treat it as some kind of a huge offence/threat, when in reality they CHOOSE to be mad about it in majority of cases.
    They treat it that way because these things compound. It's not one change. It's a flurry of changes. From two NPCs calling a genocidal banshee a bitch and it being removed because allegedly some dev was playing WoW with his kid and he didn't like it, to changing Enslave Demon to Subjugate Demon, to Every Man for Himself being renamed to Will to Survive, and that was even before this news broke. This shit is not in a vacuum. It's not just "Oh, one npc got changed because it was a monument to a chronic sex pest" It's a laundry list of absolutely inane changes.

    And Blizzard cares enough to keep making them; you don't get to tell players not to care about them and pretend you're being honest.

  3. #7543
    Anyone else got a Pre release download on retail wow or just me? Could that hint 9.1.5 being closer than expected maybe?

  4. #7544
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    Anyone else got a Pre release download on retail wow or just me? Could that hint 9.1.5 being closer than expected maybe?
    They didn't even test the mage tower yet. And the last few builds were quite ... small tbh. I would expect atleast another month, sadly.

  5. #7545
    We will reach Renown 80 in four weeks.

    So 9.1 will be out in 5 weeks.

  6. #7546
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Shouldn't we get any story progression as well? Sylvi interrogation at least?
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  7. #7547
    Seems like the systems needed to properly change covenants and keep the rewards are not added yet. The mounts do still say that it requires either being a member, or having completed Renown 80 with said covenant, so I think it is a safe bet to assume that is how the system will work.
    Oddly though cosmetics from different covenants simply do not show up at all. Transmog not showing up in the sets tab is one thing, but for some reason it is simply not currently possible to search for Tauralus mounts as a Kyrian for example.

    Also small change I noticed. Instead of Soulkeeper upgrades, Renown now instead gives 500 anima. I didnt check whether this is the case when you use the item to get to Renown 40 immediately, but I wouldnt assume it works that way. 1000 anima doesnt seem like that big a deal anyways, it's a single run through Korthia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Shouldn't we get any story progression as well? Sylvi interrogation at least?
    Doesnt seem like it. Though on the other hand if there was I imagine the writers would want to ensure we don't see it, and since it would likely only be a couple voicelines and maybe a small cutscene I cannot imagine they would have a problem hiding it anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    We will reach Renown 80 in four weeks.

    So 9.1 will be out in 5 weeks.
    Or 4 weeks, impossible to tell really.
    It could be that Blizzard releases the patch quickly, or they keep it in the oven for a bit longer. From what I have seen on the PTR I think it could go either way at this point.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  8. #7548
    Fluffy Parrot Marlamin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    Anyone else got a Pre release download on retail wow or just me? Could that hint 9.1.5 being closer than expected maybe?
    This is a side-effect of how data is shared between branches as well as the background download for 9.1.0 still being active (probably accidentally). Every time there's a PTR update (or classic for that matter), retail WoW will pick up indexes and stuff regardless of it actually needing the files only used for PTR.
    Last edited by Marlamin; 2021-09-22 at 11:43 AM.

  9. #7549
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Shouldn't we get any story progression as well? Sylvi interrogation at least?
    I mean I speculated something like that a few weeks ago, but I very much doubt it's going to happen now.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  10. #7550
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Considering whats going on, its not really shocking and removing an image of a woman with boobs hanging out but distorted..... its not that big of a loss.
    Some of them aren't that big, but some of these absolutely change the lore and/or don't fit. Changing from Twin Consorts to Twin Empyreans very much changes the who & why behind their lore, not to mention that it somewhat comes out of nowhere compared to what they meant to Lei Shen beforehand. Changing the lore of a boss is not really that big of a loss perhaps, but it is also not nothing & can absolutely change the lore of the game if done enough.

    Even something as eyeroll-worthy of changing the picture of a woman to a bowl of fruit is still concerning. The initial image was one of beauty, likely commissioned by a former person of power for a loved one. It tells somewhat a story of love & power. But the bowl of fruit...that's a painting you could likely find in a hotel lobby. What story would something like that have in the World of Warcraft?

    It comes across as censorship & virtue signaling IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    This is a side-effect of how data is shared between branches as well as the background download for 9.1.0 still being active (probably accidentally). Every time there's a PTR update (or classic for that matter), retail WoW will pick up indexes and stuff regardless of it actually needing the files only used for PTR.
    That's actually really cool to know. It makes sense that they'd keep the indexes the same across versions while not pushing up the full code updates until the changes were ready.

  11. #7551
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    They're not doing this to please WoW players. It is all PR stunt to make them look good to the outside investors.
    Or, to look better in a trial over creating a hostile work environment.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  12. #7552
    "Genocidal stone chinese-inspired totalitarian emperor has sex trophies."
    "This is bad because in real life we don't approve of sex trophies. The genocidal stone chinese-inspired totalitarian emperor part can stay, though."

    Shit, almost like the point was he was a bad guy and that WoW isn't real life and that something happening in WoW doesn't mean approving of it in real life. Or does Blizzard want to argue that we should consider use of biological weapons morally just? If so, that's a really brave stance to take, but I imagine that's not quite it.

  13. #7553
    I'm happy to see more dungeons added to timewalking, particularly Grimrail Depot and Forge of Souls. Those were both favorites of mine.

  14. #7554
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    "Genocidal stone chinese-inspired totalitarian emperor has sex trophies."
    "This is bad because in real life we don't approve of sex trophies. The genocidal stone chinese-inspired totalitarian emperor part can stay, though."

    Shit, almost like the point was he was a bad guy and that WoW isn't real life and that something happening in WoW doesn't mean approving of it in real life. Or does Blizzard want to argue that we should consider use of biological weapons morally just? If so, that's a really brave stance to take, but I imagine that's not quite it.
    I think the problem is that the dungeon journal (which wouldn't be written from Lei Shen's perspective, but lets say ours or the lorewalkers or so) called them trophies. So whoever wrote that piece of lore seemingly thought from his perspective that it's ok to objectify women. Their title was ok in my eyes, but the description was always problematic. Besides that, the "only two known female mogu" part was weird too, I'm so glad they did retcon this. I remember people speculating that Lei Shen literally created them for his own pleasure using Titan technology. Which ones again, objectifies them - they were literally sex robots.

    That said, I really hope they don't change the Black Temple and Nighthold parts, aswell as the Succubus ...

  15. #7555
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    I don't remember anyone ever portraying Lei Shen as someone excusable let alone good, so idk what people are on about the story "excusing owning sex trophies" and what not.

    The existence of bigotry in a story is not a problem, what matters is what the writer decides to do with the bigotry.

    If you have a racist character, and the story portrays the character as justified and endorses that position then we have a problem.
    If the story doesn't do that, but portrays the racism for what it is, then what exactly is the problem?

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  16. #7556
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    I don't remember anyone ever portraying Lei Shen as someone excusable let alone good, so idk what people are on about the story "excusing owning sex trophies" and what not.

    The existence of bigotry in a story is not a problem, what matters is what the writer decides to do with the bigotry.

    If you have a racist character, and the story portrays the character as justified and endorses that position then we have a problem.
    If the story doesn't do that, but portrays the racism for what it is, then what exactly is the problem?
    Well, one could argue that said story element may normalize objectifying women for people who aren't smart enough to realize that Lei Shen was a "genocidal stone chinese-inspired totalitarian emperor"(or worse, think it's a good thing). And it's not like we helped them out of their slavery (which would have been an interesting quest line) .... we literally killed them because they were loyal to Lei Shen and seemingly fine with their situation as sex toy "trophies".

  17. #7557
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    I think the problem is that the dungeon journal (which wouldn't be written from Lei Shen's perspective, but lets say ours or the lorewalkers or so) called them trophies. So whoever wrote that piece of lore seemingly thought from his perspective that it's ok to objectify women. Their title was ok in my eyes, but the description was always problematic. Besides that, the "only two known female mogu" part was weird too, I'm so glad they did retcon this. I remember people speculating that Lei Shen literally created them for his own pleasure using Titan technology. Which ones again, objectifies them - they were literally sex robots.

    That said, I really hope they don't change the Black Temple and Nighthold parts, aswell as the Succubus ...
    But here's my question: what part of Lei Shen or Throne of Thunder or the entire lore surrounding Mogu do we actually approve of societally?

    I would think none of it, including the trophies part. Just as I hope nobody thinks Sylvanas' actions are morally acceptable.

  18. #7558
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    But here's my question: what part of Lei Shen or Throne of Thunder or the entire lore surrounding Mogu do we actually approve of societally?

    I would think none of it, including the trophies part. Just as I hope nobody thinks Sylvanas' actions are morally acceptable.
    The only good thing I member about him were his reforms: unifying language, currency etc. to create efficient empire.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-09-22 at 01:21 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  19. #7559
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    But here's my question: what part of Lei Shen or Throne of Thunder or the entire lore surrounding Mogu do we actually approve of societally?

    I would think none of it, including the trophies part. Just as I hope nobody thinks Sylvanas' actions are morally acceptable.
    Well, for Sylvanas they clearly went the Daenerys route - she thinks she does the right things but her actions are wrong. (hey, they both burned a city to the ground!) But I would believe her if she would say she just did it to "break the weel".

    And I think there are enough people outside who would proudly declare Lei Shen's work as thunder king a good for the people of Pandaria .... just because you and I don't doesn't mean no one does, sadly. And we don't need to give those people something else to approve of ...

  20. #7560
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    The only good thing I about him I member were his reforms: unifying language, currency etc. to create efficient empire.
    That's more than I did. The one thing I appreciated about him is that although he was awful, he was fairly well built up in a short period of time. But I always thought he was a bad guy doing bad things, and thought the same of most of the mogu considering a vast majority of them were on the mogu supremacy boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Well, for Sylvanas they clearly went the Daenerys route - she thinks she does the right things but her actions are wrong. (hey, they both burned a city to the ground!) But I would believe her if she would say she just did it to "break the weel".

    And I think there are enough people outside who would proudly declare Lei Shen's work as thunder king a good for the people of Pandaria .... just because you and I don't doesn't mean no one does, sadly. And we don't need to give those people something else to approve of ...
    But let's be fair, at that point, you may as well remove literally every other theme because it could inspire people or give people the wrong idea. This is not a slippery slope, this is just me saying that the line of distinction is arbitrary.

    And yeah, I find it real hilarious that Blizzard is pushing for this stuff to be removed or altered not to accidentally "normalize" harmful notions and ideas, but we have an actual omnicidal zombie woman that uses/used biological weapons, burned thousands if not more alive, made deals with pretty much 3 separate bad guys and tried to enslave a Titan Keeper that is on the verge of possibly being redeemed because of some contrived plot nonsense.

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