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  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    The final raid will be oribos
    Maybe not the whole thing; might be a Siege of Orgrimmar situation where we start somewhere else and end up back there (or start there and go somewhere else).

    But Oribos is almost definitely part of it, because "the Arbiter is the final key."
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  2. #722
    Elemental Lord Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Well Pandaren began as an April Fools joke and ended up having an expansion centered around them with probably the deepest lore of every other race.
    Main reason for that is, MoP started with a very overwhelming negative response from it's playerbase. SO they had to pull out all strings to make it 100% godlike.
    No expansion can top MoP just due the fact how much they tried to correct it's failures. Then suddenly it became one of the best expansions created in WoW history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Main reason for that is, MoP started with a very overwhelming negative response from it's playerbase. SO they had to pull out all strings to make it 100% godlike.
    No expansion can top MoP just due the fact how much they tried to correct it's failures. Then suddenly it became one of the best expansions created in WoW history.
    MoP also had to claw players back after the disaster that was Cataclysm telling casuals to go fuck themselves.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Main reason for that is, MoP started with a very overwhelming negative response from it's playerbase. SO they had to pull out all strings to make it 100% godlike.
    No expansion can top MoP just due the fact how much they tried to correct it's failures. Then suddenly it became one of the best expansions created in WoW history.
    By that regard then the things that MoP did was correct. Things like removing valor point gear and introducing warforging.

    I would think that the reaons MoP is fondly remembered is that players were turned off by the idea of pandas and chinese pandering enough so that they ignored the good parts of it, only stopping ot consider them after the expansion was over.
    What players seem to remember the most fondly about MoP are the zones and ambience and general experience of first getting to a new area that feels lived in, this isnt really something that was added or could have been added because of player backlash, the devs and writers knew what they were doing to make it good.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #725
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    This exactly. It's not about rolists, it's about a major chunk of the playerbase. But Blizzard is determined to catter more to the hardcore gamers so...
    This argument again, when we know for years that hardcore's are a vast minority? SL got rid of unending grind, there is much more time to play alts, big character customization just arrived, yet they don't cater to more casual player base? Like, c'mon. One announcement after delivering big customization options with SL and already pitchforks are out?
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    This exactly. It's not about rolists, it's about a major chunk of the playerbase. But Blizzard is determined to catter more to the hardcore gamers so...
    blizzard has been shitting on hardcore players for over half a decade

    but please tell me how they cater to them lol

  7. #727
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    blizzard has been shitting on hardcore players for over half a decade

    but please tell me how they cater to them lol
    "Caters to x" is yet another meaningless argument that is used to described something you don't like. "Blizz caters to casuals, because VP's are back", or "Blizz caters to hardcore's, because no more cosmetics". What actually happens is this: Blizz caters to everyone, but they have limited resources and not every decision is universally liked.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  8. #728
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Blizzard catters to groups that are loudest. WoW/devs/playerbase very often reminds me of politics and mechanisms used there. And no wonder since we talk about ~5 milion community of average, it's like small country.
    I really really doubt "Majority is super LFR players and don't care for raids." I dunno seems like a generalization. I feel like hardcore and casual interpatations are so all over the place that there's probably way more "Invested players" then actual casuals or at least what this forum considers casual.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  9. #729
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Main reason for that is, MoP started with a very overwhelming negative response from it's playerbase. SO they had to pull out all strings to make it 100% godlike.
    No expansion can top MoP just due the fact how much they tried to correct it's failures. Then suddenly it became one of the best expansions created in WoW history.
    I'm not sure that's how game development works, but at least we got something amazing. I'll admit I was one of the naysayer initially despite being a weeb. After Uldum I was sure they would just fuck it up with needless movie scenes remakes and joke characters like Luce Bree and Chackie Jen. I was glad to be wrong.

  10. #730
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I'm not sure that's how game development works, but at least we got something amazing. I'll admit I was one of the naysayer initially despite being a weeb. After Uldum I was sure they would just fuck it up with needless movie scenes remakes and joke characters like Luce Bree and Chackie Jen. I was glad to be wrong.
    Looking at Uldum, fair.
    Legion made WoD's mistakes into traditions. It is my belief when all is said and done we will regard Legion as the beginning of the end.
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  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I'm not sure that's how game development works, but at least we got something amazing. I'll admit I was one of the naysayer initially despite being a weeb. After Uldum I was sure they would just fuck it up with needless movie scenes remakes and joke characters like Luce Bree and Chackie Jen. I was glad to be wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Looking at Uldum, fair.
    Can you guys not mention that name?

    I keep trying to forget about it.

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    The backlash on no new customization is probably going to be bigger than they were expecting.

    The new customization added in the pre-patch was a massive taste at something the playerbase was never used to, and always wanted, and it's leaving everyone craving more.
    Agreed, and I would not be surprised to see them change course and add in a bit more in a future patch after the backlash. Blizz has had a long history of underestimating how much people love customization and non-progression related content, but it feels like they come back around usually after the community talks about it. It won't be anything big like fixing Nightborne eyes (at least not yet), but I could see at least a few more hairstyles getting shared just to try and make the community happy.

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I really really doubt "Majority is super LFR players and don't care for raids." I dunno seems like a generalization. I feel like hardcore and casual interpatations are so all over the place that there's probably way more "Invested players" then actual casuals or at least what this forum considers casual.
    I remember seeing a quote from Blizzard, at least one expansion ago; it said that most players never even reach the level cap.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  14. #734
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    I remember seeing a quote from Blizzard, at least one expansion ago; it said that most players never even reach the level cap.
    I really really doubt that sentiment. Before Exile's reach for new players yeah makes sense.



    No Ion you chose how some systems would work and ignored players

    Ahh yes always wrong Blizzard, they always ignore players.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2021-02-21 at 08:15 PM.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    With how vague it was, I'm thinking 9.1 is probably July, maybe even August at the earliest.

    They showed so little and mostly talked about what they were planning to do, or what they wanted to do, or how they were feeling this and that out that it gave me the vibe that they're really early in its development.
    I think that was more for PR

    Tell us “oh we don’t know yet so give us feedback” then it comes out and they say “this is a result of a conversation” like they did at blizzcon

    No Ion you chose how some systems would work and ignored players

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Maybe not the whole thing; might be a Siege of Orgrimmar situation where we start somewhere else and end up back there (or start there and go somewhere else).

    But Oribos is almost definitely part of it, because "the Arbiter is the final key."
    The top floor is perfect raid form
    The NPCs wander in perfect mob packs
    There’s a 3rd level we haven’t seen yet

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Main reason for that is, MoP started with a very overwhelming negative response from it's playerbase. SO they had to pull out all strings to make it 100% godlike.
    No expansion can top MoP just due the fact how much they tried to correct it's failures. Then suddenly it became one of the best expansions created in WoW history.
    Replace CM with M+ and give the rewards at +5 +10 and +15
    Replace dailies with emissaries

    Make flex available from launch

    BAM!!!! Best expansion

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Replace CM with M+ and give the rewards at +5 +10 and +15
    Replace dailies with emissaries

    Make flex available from launch

    BAM!!!! Best expansion
    I feel like this is true for quite a few expansions though. WoD stands out as a fantastic example. With M+ and Callings that expansion would have been fantastic, actually going out and getting a feel for the nuances of each different zone.



    Also, I still don't really get the argument of the NPCs in Oribos walking like mob packs. It seems like a pretty serious oversimplification of what goes into a raid. A higher unseen level makes far more sense.
    The Archon platform seems like it was made for a boss fight though, especially with us only going there once.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #737
    If Zovaal is the original arbiter we will definitely fight him on that platform at the end.

  18. #738
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I feel like this is true for quite a few expansions though. WoD stands out as a fantastic example. With M+ and Callings that expansion would have been fantastic, actually going out and getting a feel for the nuances of each different zone.



    Also, I still don't really get the argument of the NPCs in Oribos walking like mob packs. It seems like a pretty serious oversimplification of what goes into a raid. A higher unseen level makes far more sense.
    The Archon platform seems like it was made for a boss fight though, especially with us only going there once.
    Calling or whatever should stay, nor should we remove dailies. I know for some reason people are struggling with the "grind" (Honestly I am confused by that. I feel the grind is well not what people are saying). The Maw is probably the most daunting thing in the game right now.

    If Zovaal is the original arbiter we will definitely fight him on that platform at the end.
    He probably wanted the arbiter unconscious so he can easily take the..heart thingie she has.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    No its not. Its just a niche group of rp'ers who scream and cry for this kind of stuff. "omg why cant Blood Elves have X colour eyez pls blizzzz k thx so i can live out my fantasy of being a blue/pink eyed elf yay!!11".

    The vast majority of people simply couldnt give a shit and dont care about any of this crap.
    While I do think that most people would like more customization, I am in agreement that most do not care to the extent of the meltdown that I've seen on twitter by niche rpers. I would love to see more customization, and it's ok to be somewhat disappointed, but the level of rage induced vitriol has really exceeded into very inappropriate territory. It's funny because the people who often complain about the min max hardcore toxicity, were engaging in it to the same ridiculous level.

  20. #740
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I really really doubt that sentiment. Before Exile's reach for new players yeah makes sense.






    Ahh yes always wrong Blizzard, they always ignore players.
    removed master loot
    vast majority of players saying "no dont do that just keep it like legion"
    fake stories on forums talking about trials not getting loot which makes 0 sense and Ion knows this

    azerite armor
    essences
    legion leggos
    BfA m+ cache
    SL m+ loot

    they make a system and players point out the obvious flaws and blizzard says "we hear you and we are listening but the system needs time to breathe" just like danuser recently "sylvanas' story will play out and some people will change their feelings towards her and some wont because they already made their mind up and chose what they want to be true" aka "you are wrong we are right" which always leads to them making the changes suggested months later and they say "see we listen"

    blues telling players who saw the problem with BfA cache at launch "actually you are wrong we made the change weeks before launch and nobody complained" only for it to get a halfway fix via residuum.

    They nerfed loot drops after removing TF even though players said "dont do that it feels bad" they nerfed anima down from what it was on the beta where callings gave anima and raid bosses gave like 200 and changed it to a fraction....only to change it back and increase loot drops.

    They ignore players when they want to and that normally happens with the systems

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I feel like this is true for quite a few expansions though. WoD stands out as a fantastic example. With M+ and Callings that expansion would have been fantastic, actually going out and getting a feel for the nuances of each different zone.



    Also, I still don't really get the argument of the NPCs in Oribos walking like mob packs. It seems like a pretty serious oversimplification of what goes into a raid. A higher unseen level makes far more sense.
    The Archon platform seems like it was made for a boss fight though, especially with us only going there once.
    idk groups of 4-5 npcs doing a route and one npc looks like a healer
    its gonna be a fun raid

    also if WoD had more content it would ahve been a bit more fun

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