1. #7601
    In 8.2.5 they wanted to wrap up war story/clear field before moving to full N'zoth arc. Also they had prepared CGI cinematic, without it 9.2.5 chapter would be pretty shitty. In 9.1.5 there is no need for that, 9.2 could as well start with Primus reforging final key and opening portal.

    In 9.1.5 their main goal is to encourage players to explore rest of SL content (alts, other covenants) and some old content (islands, Legion raids) while they're cooking 9.2. Legion timewalking will be just first 2 weeks, so it serve both as sub bait and evergreen addition to game.

  2. #7602
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I find it really weird that 9.1.5 adds really nothing to the Shadowlands story and everything is in limbo until 9.2. Not even a 20 minute questline / scenario dealing with the aftermath of Sanctum / Sylvanas? I mean they wrapped up the entire faction war of BfA in 8.2.5 in a 30 minute (or less) scenario.
    It doesnt look good for more plot, but it isnt completely unthinkable that whatever quest or three with Sylvanas is hidden on the PTR. Not a big or even that likely chance, but still.

    This patch seems very much like the kinds of patches we get when the drought is really kicking in and Blizzard is less interested in keeping players active raiding or such, but rather content to just scour the last bits of content from the game.
    I am actually kind of surprised we got this patch so early, usually I would expect stuff like this to be literally the last patch the expansion has, from that time when the intent behind the systems are long since irrelevant, and content can be changed to be designed for players that join the expansions after and only want a few select things hidden behind systems that would normally be designed to take ages to promote gameplay.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #7603
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I find it really weird that 9.1.5 adds really nothing to the Shadowlands story and everything is in limbo until 9.2. Not even a 20 minute questline / scenario dealing with the aftermath of Sanctum / Sylvanas? I mean they wrapped up the entire faction war of BfA in 8.2.5 in a 30 minute (or less) scenario.
    I suppose they don't use .5 patches as story developments anymore.. I find it odd as well because right now we are waiting for 9.2 to move anything forward.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    No. On these forums any updates mean an expansion hint.
    Wrathin comes back? Dragon expansion clearly!
    LK part of a quest? Wotlk 2 clearly!
    Sylvanas working with a death master? Shadowlands clearly!

    At the point we're headed for Wrath of the Shdowlands Dragon Isles Lich and tinkers.

  4. #7604
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiradon View Post
    I suppose they don't use .5 patches as story developments anymore.. I find it odd as well because right now we are waiting for 9.2 to move anything forward.....
    My guess is that 9.1.5 was never planned in this form. When the lawsuit stuff and mass exodus news broke some people with supposed connections to Blizzard spoke about their willingness to put in a reconcilliation patch, which then was announced 1-2 weeks later in the form of 9.1.5. So I'm not too surprised to see this patch being light on story. Blizzard practically tells the key points of the story exclusively through cinematics and I've had the feeling in SL beta already that they are lagging behind with their cinematic production. So most likely even if they wanted to tell some story, with their current way of dealing with story they simply can't. The patch is pretty much just working down the wish list of the playerbase at large and they've thrown everything easy in it (well and some last minute desperate white-washing).
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  5. #7605
    Quote Originally Posted by Felis igneus View Post
    My guess is that 9.1.5 was never planned in this form. When the lawsuit stuff and mass exodus news broke some people with supposed connections to Blizzard spoke about their willingness to put in a reconcilliation patch, which then was announced 1-2 weeks later in the form of 9.1.5. So I'm not too surprised to see this patch being light on story. Blizzard practically tells the key points of the story exclusively through cinematics and I've had the feeling in SL beta already that they are lagging behind with their cinematic production. So most likely even if they wanted to tell some story, with their current way of dealing with story they simply can't. The patch is pretty much just working down the wish list of the playerbase at large and they've thrown everything easy in it (well and some last minute desperate white-washing).
    The funny thing about this theory is, 9.0.5 basically had the same reasoning as 9.1.5 then. Sure, the upcoming lawsuit wasn't known back then, but 9.0.5 served the same purpose as 9.1.5. And we know they did not plan to have 9.0.5 either and it came out of nowhere.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  6. #7606
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    The funny thing about this theory is, 9.0.5 basically had the same reasoning as 9.1.5 then. Sure, the upcoming lawsuit wasn't known back then, but 9.0.5 served the same purpose as 9.1.5. And we know they did not plan to have 9.0.5 either and it came out of nowhere.
    Tells something about the company and the expansion when every x.x.5 patch is just a bandaid fix to ease the crippling problems in the game and/or the company's public image.

  7. #7607
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Tells something about the company and the expansion when every x.x.5 patch is just a bandaid fix to ease the crippling problems in the game and/or the company's public image.
    Not "crippling problems" - one problem, but huge one. Content drought. It's caused both by delays and abandoning Legion model that worked so well (small patch - raid/season, big patch - catch up zone to previous raid, dungeon, story).

  8. #7608
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Not "crippling problems" - one problem, but huge one. Content drought. It's caused both by delays and abandoning Legion model that worked so well (small patch - raid/season, big patch - catch up zone to previous raid, dungeon, story).
    I'm still amazed that they abandoned that model after it worked so well. There was always content coming, none of it ever really felt too old, & I can imagine that it was a ton easier on project managers & devs to have that sort of schedule. I have to wonder how much better 9.1 would've gone down had they gotten the non-raid content ready earlier & pushed out the raid a bit later as part of a 9.1.5.

  9. #7609
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    988
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    I'm still amazed that they abandoned that model after it worked so well. There was always content coming, none of it ever really felt too old, & I can imagine that it was a ton easier on project managers & devs to have that sort of schedule. I have to wonder how much better 9.1 would've gone down had they gotten the non-raid content ready earlier & pushed out the raid a bit later as part of a 9.1.5.
    Castle Nathria was already out far longer than it should have been. They could have done the updated Maw+Korthia with 9.0.5 and the raid with 9.1. but delaying SoD even further would have killed the game.

  10. #7610
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Castle Nathria was already out far longer than it should have been. They could have done the updated Maw+Korthia with 9.0.5 and the raid with 9.1. but delaying SoD even further would have killed the game.
    We rather think about ideal scenario - so 9.1 (without raid) in March, then 9.1.5 with raid and timewalking in late June, then 9.2 around September/October (again, zone with catch up gear, but no raid), etc.

  11. #7611
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    988
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    We rather think about ideal scenario - so 9.1 (without raid) in March, then 9.1.5 with raid and timewalking in late June, then 9.2 around September/October (again, zone with catch up gear, but no raid), etc.
    Oh yeah that could have worked - also add Tazavesh with 9.0.5. and you would have a smooth catch up curve (and a mega dungeon that makes sense to do, unlike now ...)

  12. #7612
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Oh yeah that could have worked - also add Tazavesh with 9.0.5. and you would have a smooth catch up curve (and a mega dungeon that makes sense to do, unlike now ...)
    Exactly. Tazavesh feels near useless to do now which is a shame as it really is a solid dungeon overall. Plus new content tends to cover up all sorts of missteps. Legion had a ton of issues IMO, but with the new content there was always something to do & consistent progress towards fixing those missteps. One has to think that had 9.1 come out in March with 9.1.5 in June/July, the community might not be as up in arms.

  13. #7613
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    I'm still amazed that they abandoned that model after it worked so well. There was always content coming, none of it ever really felt too old, & I can imagine that it was a ton easier on project managers & devs to have that sort of schedule. I have to wonder how much better 9.1 would've gone down had they gotten the non-raid content ready earlier & pushed out the raid a bit later as part of a 9.1.5.
    I wouldnt really say Blizzard abandoned it necessarily. They did specifically state that the patch cadence led to some problem early on when Trial of Valor undercut the progression of Emerald Nightmare for instance, and further came too close to the release of Nighthold. But it seemed more likely that Blizzard wanted to have a similar patch release cycle but didnt manage for whatever reason.


    I think most of the problems with SL really does come down to the long droughts. The launch was pretty much perfect in that sense. Playerss were complaining about stuff, but that always happens. The real issues didnt really show up until 9.1 took longer than it should have. Players were already burned out by the time it released, and even though 9.1 is undoubtedly a more sizeable patch than the usual X.1 patches, because of the drought it had to in a sense be treated like a X.2 patch, of which it falls short. This patch isnt really bad either, the raid is good and all, but the drought is slowly killing enthusiasm.

    Had we been closer to a regular patch cadence we would have likely been in 9.2 already, eagerly awaiting the next minor patch, waiting for a 9.3 announcement, not to mention a new expansion announcement come November.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #7614
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    988
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Exactly. Tazavesh feels near useless to do now which is a shame as it really is a solid dungeon overall. Plus new content tends to cover up all sorts of missteps. Legion had a ton of issues IMO, but with the new content there was always something to do & consistent progress towards fixing those missteps. One has to think that had 9.1 come out in March with 9.1.5 in June/July, the community might not be as up in arms.
    Indeed. I think I did hardmode like 3 times for the gear early on, haven't found a good group for normal mount run since as even if you find a group for it it's full of alts or bad players ... well I guess I'll have to spam keys for it in 9.2.

  15. #7615
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Exactly. Tazavesh feels near useless to do now which is a shame as it really is a solid dungeon overall. Plus new content tends to cover up all sorts of missteps. Legion had a ton of issues IMO, but with the new content there was always something to do & consistent progress towards fixing those missteps. One has to think that had 9.1 come out in March with 9.1.5 in June/July, the community might not be as up in arms.
    I think Legion made the best call in bundling the mega-dungeon with a mini-raid.
    A proper raid will always beat out a dungeon unless it has absurdly inflated loot, and even then that just means you get a mad dash for loot then nothing.
    In Legion you had Trial of Valor for good gear, and Karazhan for "content". Neither really ended up stepping on eachothers toes.

    A mega-dungeon alongside a regular raid just means the dungeon will be deprecated on launch since it will just end up as an instance inferior in every way to a regular raid.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  16. #7616
    Having the 9.1.5 Covenant stuff already in 9.0.5 would have helped as well. I mean they're basically doing what players asked for in beta, but they refused to give it to us in 9.0.5 already although it was overdue. In 9.1.5 it just feels too little too late on the grand scheme of mismanagement that Shadowlands is.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  17. #7617
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Having the 9.1.5 Covenant stuff already in 9.0.5 would have helped as well. I mean they're basically doing what players asked for in beta, but they refused to give it to us in 9.0.5 already although it was overdue. In 9.1.5 it just feels too little too late on the grand scheme of mismanagement that Shadowlands is.
    For sure. Leaving something in like that which made so many players/content creators upset is just asking for a player mutiny. While I definitely think the devs shouldn't always listen to the players on everything, that was something they could've had as an easy win that they turned into a massive loss.

  18. #7618
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post

    Had we been closer to a regular patch cadence we would have likely been in 9.2 already, eagerly awaiting the next minor patch, waiting for a 9.3 announcement, not to mention a new expansion announcement come November.
    With normal patch schedule 9.3 would be in late PTR testing right now and launch in November near Blizzcon.

  19. #7619
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Having the 9.1.5 Covenant stuff already in 9.0.5 would have helped as well. I mean they're basically doing what players asked for in beta, but they refused to give it to us in 9.0.5 already although it was overdue. In 9.1.5 it just feels too little too late on the grand scheme of mismanagement that Shadowlands is.
    Funny thing, no matter when something happen, people like you will say "too little too late". These comments are pointless like "they never listen to feedback", but you can spot them every single patch.

    And no, people that quit because of drought wouldn't stay because you can try other covenants. Why I know that? Because even with drought most people didn't even maxed out their original covenant. Only answer for drought are regular patches. It's not like 9.1.5 changes will bring masses either, these are changes for people that already like SL and want easier time on alts/alt covenants.

    Not to mention that 9.1 is direct continuation of 9.0. They give you everything in 9.0 or 9.0.5, Anima rains from the sky, covenant restrictions are lifted... what now? 9.0->9.1 had TBC to help with subs a little, 9.1->9.2 doesn't have that.

  20. #7620
    I don’t think content drought was Shadowlands’ problem, it was it’s anemic reward structure. I found there was a lot of stuff to do at the beginning: covenant sanctums and their unique mini games, cosmetics, Torghast, M+ and raiding for those who like that. It’s just that the reward grind was so horrendous that it made me not want to play at all. Anima was awful to grind. Everything was so expensive and would have required so many WQs that I stopped bothering. Torghast could have rewarded cosmetics and gear from the beginning. It didn’t and after I got my legendary I stopped caring and Twisting Corridors was so such a long slog with pitiful rewards (only on every other level too, WTF?). There were all the cosmetics between all four covenants and all four armor types I would have liked to have gone for but switching covenants sucked and again, the anima grind so I didn’t do it.

    They fixed some of this a little on 9.1 and more with 9.1.5 but well before that I got fed up with The game and Blizz’s shit and left. Too much goodwill was lost.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •