Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[TheFirstOnes]

I just want to know more of the First Ones in 9.2. I wanna know how they came to be, how they balanced the Cosmic Forces and made the realms plus the Cosmos as a whole, I want to know if they made the primal six-seven forces to begin with (They prolly did), and I want to see what the Sepulcher looks like! I wanna know if these Progenitors are led by someone also.

[Sondrelk]

There is no one thing 10.0 needs to suddenly be amazing. No matter what avenue the game takes going forward, whether that means more or less casual, more or less loot, more or less world content, there will be a vocal opposition that absolutely hates what the game is becoming.
For any player that loves endgame gear being handed out for tripping over a log there is another that wants endgame gear to be carefuly partitioned out to make endgame gear more prestigious and by extension any random epic a big deal.
For any player that wants lots of world content, rares, treasures and general reasons to go outside there are others that wish we could go back to WoD with getting everything handed to us so they could raidlog more effectively.

In a sense the only thing the game "needs" is to pick a side on select issues and stick to them, the problem obviously being that this might completely kill the game for those hwo dislike the direction the game is going. Change the game to focus on instanced endgame content and the players that enjoy levelling and generally don't raid will feel left out. Make the game more like Classic with talent trees and impactful crafted gear and you might lose someone who only has time to raidlog and dislikes missing out on the full experience.
The developers honestly cannot win at this stage. The best they can hope to do is to make an expansion that is just all-around really solid, which is probably the hardest thing they can do at this point.

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There are several things they could give fans to make them go "OOOOOH" or "WOOOOW". Make it another expansion where we get new (allied) races and a class. Make it an expansion where we not only get one but two new classes. Let artifact weapons (or as I said earlier, tier sets) make a glorious return. There are several things that would get players back on track.

I really don't think it's primarily about tons of content. I think it's about features player want and that are so big (at least on paper) that they foster goodwill.

Cosmetics are really the only thing I think all players agree on, so you might be right in that making an expansion that really caters to collectors might be the most sensible middle of the road approach to designing an expansion.
Shadowlands was almost that expansion, but one that goes even further in making raidlogging feasible, and simultaneously makes the cosmetic rewards systems as deep and broad as possible might be exactly what the game needs.

Personally I think that what would really pay dividends in a major way is Blizzard making an expansion based heavily around making evergreen content. Specifically Timewalking, which is absolutely starving for attention considering the sheer amount of possibility if Blizzard draws from the old content well. Zones upon zones of areas whose only use currently is as levelling zones. Dungeons galore that could be reused for almost anything. Databases just filled with cosmetics that isnt currently available, but which could probably sustain its own expansion if utilized properly. I mean honestly, one unique recolor of a set from each raid per armor type and you have more gearsets than I think any one single expansion has ever had.

[Hitei]

I just want to know more of the First Ones in 9.2. I wanna know how they came to be, how they balanced the Cosmic Forces and made the realms plus the Cosmos as a whole, I want to know if they made the primal six-seven forces to begin with (They prolly did), and I want to see what the Sepulcher looks like! I wanna know if these Progenitors are led by someone also.

I think it's unlikely you're going to get a ton of answers about the group proper. They are definitely being set up to remain the mysterious, veiled force no longer around that things can be attributed to. So you might get stuff like Ulduar, where you learn more about systems they've set up or servants they've left around, but it's not likely you'll learn more about the First Ones themselves.

Cosmetics are really the only thing I think all players agree on, so you might be right in that making an expansion that really caters to collectors might be the most sensible middle of the road approach to designing an expansion.

You say that, but every time there's datamining for cosmetics, there are people in the comments bitching and moaning about them "wasting time" on crap no one cares about instead of balancing X or making classes better, or whatever else they want.

[Nyel]

Cosmetics are really the only thing I think all players agree on, so you might be right in that making an expansion that really caters to collectors might be the most sensible middle of the road approach to designing an expansion.
Shadowlands was almost that expansion, but one that goes even further in making raidlogging feasible, and simultaneously makes the cosmetic rewards systems as deep and broad as possible might be exactly what the game needs.

Personally I think that what would really pay dividends in a major way is Blizzard making an expansion based heavily around making evergreen content. Specifically Timewalking, which is absolutely starving for attention considering the sheer amount of possibility if Blizzard draws from the old content well. Zones upon zones of areas whose only use currently is as levelling zones. Dungeons galore that could be reused for almost anything. Databases just filled with cosmetics that isnt currently available, but which could probably sustain its own expansion if utilized properly. I mean honestly, one unique recolor of a set from each raid per armor type and you have more gearsets than I think any one single expansion has ever had.

That's something I always said should be done: make all content matter. Other games already get this right (GW2, ESO for example) where "old" content still is worth it. The moment WoW starts doing that, the moment everybody wins. There is so so so much content in WoW, yet everything below max level or the fancy new expansion is trash and useless. Timewalking should just be their new design philosophy in regards that everything matters as it contributes to your progression in one way or another. As soon as I can do Cataclysm quests at max level and still benefit by it (due to valor points or whatever that directly translate into high level gear or cosmetics or mounts), we have ten times the content of just one new expansion. I think this would be a massive step in the right direction to make retail WoW a modern MMORPG.

But what we need on the other hand is something that gets players hooked immediately. Legion had artifact weapons which were HUGE due to nostalgia and style and a brand new class. 10.0 needs something similar, maybe even bigger or just more than that. What I see problematic here is the prominence of such feature. In Warcraft lore there's unfortunately nothing left that would stun players. No Death Knights, no Demonhunters, no beloved Warcraft characters... so that's the biggest issue right now in my opinion. The symbiosis of huge features AND a storyline that gets everybody hooked.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

People assume Blizzard will get their shit together because they eventually have to. Unless WoW is going to be perpetually delayed then at some point we will go back to a more sensible release cadence. The question is simply when that will happen, could be the next patch onwards, could be this time in 2 years. We just decide to be optimistic.

Way I see it, they'll get their shit together when America gets its shit together. And that's looking like maybe by 2032.

Though the Lawsuit is probably gonna be behind them by year's end.

Different teams. They take 2 years to get an expansion done? Good, so for the expansion to come out 1 year from now, they had to have started working on it when Shadowlands released, which is reasonable.

"Everyone" thinking it will include a full game revamp is "everyone" being optimistic, that's not an argument lol.

Hell there's way more evidence of 10.0 being about the Light and Void, including, but not limited to, Blizzard literally saying they would like a Light and Void expansion right after they announced Shadowlands.

2 years normally. WFH seems to be taking those normal schedules and doing a x1.5 on them, so I'd say safer to say 2.5 years to finish 10.0 than the usual 2. Unless they're going to majorly strip down 10.0 to get it done in time and make it like 3 zones and no features. A glorified patch.

[Sondrelk]

You say that, but every time there's datamining for cosmetics, there are people in the comments bitching and moaning about them "wasting time" on crap no one cares about instead of balancing X or making classes better, or whatever else they want.

Not that all the cosmetics are agreed to be good, but that everyone wants cosmetics in general. There was definitely lots of annoyance in BfA when Alliance only got recolored horses for mounts, but noone seemed to want mount rewards to go away.
Compare this to something like world content. Players don't really discuss the details of that like they do cosmetics simply because the debate is on even more rudimentary levels like whether world content should be in the game at all.

[Varodoc]

2 years normally. WFH seems to be taking those normal schedules and doing a x1.5 on them, so I'd say safer to say 2.5 years to finish 10.0 than the usual 2. Unless they're going to majorly strip down 10.0 to get it done in time and make it like 3 zones and no features. A glorified patch.

If you can't come up with a new feature and more than 3 zones in 2 years, what are 5 more months going to do?

At best you'll come out with 3+ zones, one or two of which are badly-structured, and a new feature(s) that is dogshit at launch. Which is exactly every WoW expansion since Legion

[TheFirstOnes]

I think it's unlikely you're going to get a ton of answers about the group proper. They are definitely being set up to remain the mysterious, veiled force no longer around that things can be attributed to. So you might get stuff like Ulduar, where you learn more about systems they've set up or servants they've left around, but it's not likely you'll learn more about the First Ones themselves.



You say that, but every time there's datamining for cosmetics, there are people in the comments bitching and moaning about them "wasting time" on crap no one cares about instead of balancing X or making classes better, or whatever else they want.

Maybe, but we did learn a LOT of the Titans in Ulduar regardless.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

10.0 needs good ideas from devs, not crossing things out from forums/youtubers wishlist. They did it in SL and results are mixed.

Also housing.

And it doesn't really matter what we prefer, it all depends if bottleneck of early production of 10.0 is delayed as well or not. Doubt it could go as dire as 2024, imo window is something between November '22 and August '23, with more chances for 9.3 closer it will be to August.

Sometimes the "complaining" is very cyclical. New era? complain about expansion, happens almost every time. Onto more important things though Covanents in theory aren't bad but once mixed in with gameplay(I.E abilities) it gets muddy

[Varodoc]

Regardless, given how much Blizzard loves to brag that every new expansion breaks the record sales on Day 1, and given how it's obvious that Day 1 Sales are more profitable than subs (and just look at WoD for the evidence to these facts), I think it is financially better to release 10.0 as soon as possible.

Even if the expansion is a buggy mess, it won't matter. People (not just the whales) will come back to the game, the streamers, most players are addicted, so when they see 10.0 drops they will come back. Blizzard is clearly playing for the Day 1 sales so it makes sense to rush the next expansion out, and you don't need to have studied Economics to figure this out.

Just look at how much Blizzard loves to brag in their Quarterly calls about how the current expansion broke all records on Day 1

So in short Rushing out the new expansion >>>> Trying to fix ShitLands on the scale of "How much is this profitable for Blizzard?".

[TheFirstOnes]

Mf's talk about Blizzard adding pointless systems to WoW, then ask for Player Housing. Pathetic.

[Hitei]

Not that all the cosmetics are agreed to be good, but that everyone wants cosmetics in general. There was definitely lots of annoyance in BfA when Alliance only got recolored horses for mounts, but noone seemed to want mount rewards to go away.
Compare this to something like world content. Players don't really discuss the details of that like they do cosmetics simply because the debate is on even more rudimentary levels like whether world content should be in the game at all.

That's what I'm saying though. Regardless of cosmetics being good or bad, there are people who treat additional customization, mounts, transmog, etc. As a waste of time and something negative, so those people are going to take a focused expansion as being completely lacking in content.

[Nathanyel]

Without the in-flow of new players the game has kinda degraded into "use a speed leveling guide to hit the cap and then spam content with your guild."

Almost as if that's an inevitable effect of players knowing how to level and do other things efficiently, and not actual degradation of gameplay quality.

Must be hard for Blizzard. China's and California's policies couldn't be more different when it comes to progressiveness.

Well, either Blizzard are masters of simultaneously pandering to all of: progressive people, corporate overlords who only want to milk money out of the players, and the totalitarian, culture-restrictive CCP, or people with (even if just partial) right-leaning/conservative views just complain about everything they don't like as if it's the End of the World (of Warcraft)

That's what I'm saying though. Regardless of cosmetics being good or bad, there are people who treat additional customization, mounts, transmog, etc. As a waste of time and something negative, so those people are going to take a focused expansion as being completely lacking in content.

I completely expect 10.0 to bring lots of class customization (form/pet skins, doodads such as tomes for Paladins and other casters etc.) like 9.0 brought new racial customization, and while the majority of players will definitely like this, I don't even want to imagine the 'backlash' from the vocal minority.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

If you can't come up with a new feature and more than 3 zones in 2 years, what are 5 more months going to do?

At best you'll come out with 3+ zones, one or two of which are badly-structured, and a new feature(s) that is dogshit at launch. Which is exactly every WoW expansion since Legion

You can come up with them but the problem is creating them and testing them when you're all just chatting over a slack channel and using residential internet instead of company intranet to upload your changes and download others' changes.

I still remember when 14 delayed a patch by 6 months due to Covid they said it would take them, and I'll admit I don't remember the exact number, 8 or so hours to get game updates out to the dev team due to internet problems.

[Dracullus]

In hindsight delaying SL not month, but 6 months would be best decision. People often react even positively for that, cause it shows you want polished game. But once expac started, there is no turning back, people expect regular content updates or leave. Now it's even hard to judge some SL design choices, cause drought affect everything.

[Hitei]

If you can't come up with a new feature and more than 3 zones in 2 years, what are 5 more months going to do?

At best you'll come out with 3+ zones, one or two of which are badly-structured, and a new feature(s) that is dogshit at launch. Which is exactly every WoW expansion since Legion

I always find it funny how people just draw completely arbitrary lines in wow's history. As if MoP wasn't that exact same thing.

[huth]

I always find it funny how people just draw completely arbitrary lines in wow's history. As if MoP wasn't that exact same thing.

Well, there's an important difference: MoP is several more years in the past, so it is easier to view through nostalgia goggles.

[shoc]

I always find it funny how people just draw completely arbitrary lines in wow's history. As if MoP wasn't that exact same thing.

Seeing old content through rose tinted glasses has been a thing since there was such thing as old content.

[TheFirstOnes]

I think you guys are heavily overthinking 10.0’s plot…

[Varodoc]

I always find it funny how people just draw completely arbitrary lines in wow's history. As if MoP wasn't that exact same thing.

So is this the strategy of you fanboys? Drag down every previous expansion so that you can bring up the current (trash) one?

Does it work at least and also have you already gotten your arguments to trash on Shadowlands if and when 10.0 also sucks?