1. #8761
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    Do you honestly think he's being homophobic when he says that?
    Yes, i'm absolutely sure that a person throwing homophobic slurs at other people is, in fact, homophobic.
    Jesus fucking christ people.

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  2. #8762
    Well this page of the thread has taken a nasty left turn...


    On to more salient matters. Any bets on a release date announcement for anything WoW SL related this week?
    I am absolutely starving for content, and I need something to stave off boredom while I wait.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #8763
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Afaik the mage tower is not on the PTR yet, right?
    Other than that, i don't think there is anything big left to test unless they add something last minute.

    Release is most likely gonna fall on Nov. 2nd.

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  4. #8764
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Afaik the mage tower is not on the PTR yet, right?
    Other than that, i don't think there is anything big left to test unless they add something last minute.

    Release is most likely gonna fall on Nov. 2nd.
    It will certainly be interesting to see how Timewalking gets tuned. It was always horribly tuned between each class already, and some classes have changed quite a bit since then.
    I guess Blizzard could lean back on the fact that the cosmetic reward only requires a single spec to get through the challenge, but still.

    I cannot remember if I have heard anything on whether Legiondaries and such will be useable in the Mage Tower though. I know they mentioned M+ Timewalking would function differently, but I am not sure whether they also meant to include the Mage Tower challenge in that.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #8765
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Afaik the mage tower is not on the PTR yet, right?
    Other than that, i don't think there is anything big left to test unless they add something last minute.

    Release is most likely gonna fall on Nov. 2nd.
    Last week of November livestream? Cutting it close, here. Really do not want to continue to stew over 9.2 and expansion ending limbo over the holidays.
    "The only thing you got in this world is what you can sell. and the funny thing is that you're a game developer, and you don't know that."
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  6. #8766
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    Definitely not. Dragon Isles can give us lots of cool Dragon stuff, especially with the Chromatic and Infinite Flights, which could also lead into some potential void plot lines aswell.

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    Argus was not half assed. The fuck did you expect the Legion homeworld to be?

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    In my theory, I have K’aresh as 10.3

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    How I see things:

    10.0 prepatch: Siege of SW Pre-Patch event with world revamp.

    10.0: Dragon Isles, and plotlines on Azeroth with the Scarlet Crusade, Turalyon, Lothraxion, and Yrel. First raid is in the Dragon Isles with the Infinite and Chromatic Flight, leading into an awakened Chromatus (whose heads have been twisted by the Void, or the Infinites) as the final boss. The second raid is on AU Draenor, either on Shattrath or Farahlon, with Yrel, Lothraxion, and Prime Naaru A’dal as bosses.

    Mini raid is within the Seat of the Pantheon/Realm of Order, where we battle Sargeras, but he is weakened enough for us to defeat him. We also fight some judge mf’s, cause realm of order be like a court or some shit.

    If you’re wondering, I think 10.1 should be Farahlon.

    10.2 gives us the Realm of Light (maybe not as a zone tho?), some Void Plots, a new raid with space pirates and Void beings, and us getting a Pantheon of Disorder.

    10.3: K’aresh zone with the last raid being us against the Void Lords, with corrupted Azeroth being either the last boss or the boss before the last one.

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    As for dungeons: idfk something I guess

    I do see the Undermine being the next Megadungeon however
    For me this is much too condensed. We need a good topic for future expansions after all.

    Suggestion:

    10.0: Comeback to a changed world with revamp of Northern Kalimdor plus Lordaeron. Seamles integration of Draeinei and Blood Elven territory, etc. Rebuilding of the new Capitals for Night Elves and Forsaken in focus, but main action is around the Dragon Islands. Groundwork for new lore, rebuiliding for factions, races, etc, hints of big bads. Races like Ogres and Fulborgs. Dragonsworn Class. Etc.

    10.1: Evil Dragonflight make their moves. A zone gets infested with Void(Twilight Dragonflight). Another has its timeline broken(Infinite Dragonflight).

    10.2: Odyn, always wary of the Dragon Flights, makes his move, returning to Ulduar to take controle over Azeroth. Armies of Titanforged, Val'kyr and more threaten all who oppose, as he tries to reach a special Titan facility surrounded by a new zone.

    10.3: Galak'rond is awakened and we battle him and his forces around the final zone and in the last zone.

    10.3.5: Yrel's forces arrive to promise us help against the other cosmic forces. At first the Alliance welcomes them openly despite the Horde's warnings, but then ...

    11:0-11.3: We follow Yrel's forces to the planet of K'aresh, trying to stop them, as they plan to shift the balance of the cosmic forces in favor of the light. We meet Xal'atath again, who offers to help us in our struggle. Meet exotic places. Maybe visit a place re-/de-formed by the Light. Maybe return to AU Draenor to save survivors/attack their base ... A special feature could be Light or Void customisations for all races.

    12:0-12:3: We go to Kezan, where the Goblin Cartels fight amongst themselves for new tech from K'aresh, trade opportunities with the Etherals, etc. A giant underground zone, a new neutral hub as Undermine, Troll Ruins, Old God Temples ... Tinkers would be the new class.

    There is a lot of lore Blizz could use and even proberly connect with cosmic stuff.

  7. #8767
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Yes, i'm absolutely sure that a person throwing homophobic slurs at other people is, in fact, homophobic.
    At best, it would mean that he's entirely okay with using people's existence as an insult, and didn't really consider the optics. (No, being in an edgeling bans doesn't justify it.) And then, there's the suicide-baiting.

    Anyhow: if one is a fan of the band, that's one thing. But I've said my piece on people making a federal case over the removed lines and name changes; to frame it as somehow a "political statement" in a way that the presence of the lines, etc. were somehow not is to miss the point and hold a double standard.
    Last edited by Dacia Ultan; 2021-10-17 at 04:31 PM.

  8. #8768
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Afaik the mage tower is not on the PTR yet, right?
    Other than that, i don't think there is anything big left to test unless they add something last minute.

    Release is most likely gonna fall on Nov. 2nd.
    Wasn't it supposed to go on the PTR this week? I remember a bluepost saying it would come up soon (and that was on Monday or Tuesday last week).

    With Mage Tower not even being on PTR yet the release is going to slip into November for sure.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  9. #8769
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwing View Post
    For me this is much too condensed. We need a good topic for future expansions after all.

    Suggestion:

    10.0: Comeback to a changed world with revamp of Northern Kalimdor plus Lordaeron. Seamles integration of Draeinei and Blood Elven territory, etc. Rebuilding of the new Capitals for Night Elves and Forsaken in focus, but main action is around the Dragon Islands. Groundwork for new lore, rebuiliding for factions, races, etc, hints of big bads. Races like Ogres and Fulborgs. Dragonsworn Class. Etc.

    10.1: Evil Dragonflight make their moves. A zone gets infested with Void(Twilight Dragonflight). Another has its timeline broken(Infinite Dragonflight).

    10.2: Odyn, always wary of the Dragon Flights, makes his move, returning to Ulduar to take controle over Azeroth. Armies of Titanforged, Val'kyr and more threaten all who oppose, as he tries to reach a special Titan facility surrounded by a new zone.

    10.3: Galak'rond is awakened and we battle him and his forces around the final zone and in the last zone.

    10.3.5: Yrel's forces arrive to promise us help against the other cosmic forces. At first the Alliance welcomes them openly despite the Horde's warnings, but then ...

    11:0-11.3: We follow Yrel's forces to the planet of K'aresh, trying to stop them, as they plan to shift the balance of the cosmic forces in favor of the light. We meet Xal'atath again, who offers to help us in our struggle. Meet exotic places. Maybe visit a place re-/de-formed by the Light. Maybe return to AU Draenor to save survivors/attack their base ... A special feature could be Light or Void customisations for all races.

    12:0-12:3: We go to Kezan, where the Goblin Cartels fight amongst themselves for new tech from K'aresh, trade opportunities with the Etherals, etc. A giant underground zone, a new neutral hub as Undermine, Troll Ruins, Old God Temples ... Tinkers would be the new class.

    There is a lot of lore Blizz could use and even proberly connect with cosmic stuff.
    Considering BFA exists, this plot is imo too spread thin

  10. #8770
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    Considering BFA exists, this plot is imo too spread thin
    Regarding that the story of BfA has been one of its biggest critique point, I think a story that's "spread too thin" is way better than a convoluted mess nobody likes in the end. After BfA and especially after Shadowlands they need something easy and less complicated. Something containing the Light, the Void and Dragons for sure will rival BfA's mess of a story.
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  11. #8771
    I am Murloc! Fahrad Wagner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Regarding that the story of BfA has been one of its biggest critique point, I think a story that's "spread too thin" is way better than a convoluted mess nobody likes in the end. After BfA and especially after Shadowlands they need something easy and less complicated. Something containing the Light, the Void and Dragons for sure will rival BfA's mess of a story.
    I completely agree, and love Hardwing’s suggestion of a plot. We need a clear main storyline and independent zone storylines. In my opinion, WotLK was the closest to this balance.

  12. #8772
    I mean this expansion was far worse since Sylvanas will be sleeping till 9.2
    "The only thing you got in this world is what you can sell. and the funny thing is that you're a game developer, and you don't know that."
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  13. #8773
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Regarding that the story of BfA has been one of its biggest critique point, I think a story that's "spread too thin" is way better than a convoluted mess nobody likes in the end. After BfA and especially after Shadowlands they need something easy and less complicated. Something containing the Light, the Void and Dragons for sure will rival BfA's mess of a story.
    In what way was BfA or even Shadowlands "convoluted"?

    Like, I would hope that the majority of the playerbase are smart enough to follow a plot that is more than "OK, there is a bad dragon, kill him!"

  14. #8774
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    In what way was BfA or even Shadowlands "convoluted"?

    Like, I would hope that the majority of the playerbase are smart enough to follow a plot that is more than "OK, there is a bad dragon, kill him!"
    N'zoth's storyline, Alliance VS Horde. Cause apparently BFA's plot is too hard to follow, or something. Shadowlands is not convoluted, nor is BFA. Its pretty damn clear.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2021-10-17 at 07:00 PM.
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  15. #8775
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    In what way was BfA or even Shadowlands "convoluted"?

    Like, I would hope that the majority of the playerbase are smart enough to follow a plot that is more than "OK, there is a bad dragon, kill him!"
    BfA was faction war plus regional conflicts on the new continents plus Azshara plus Old Gods. The faction war / regional conflicts would have made a great expansion, the Azshara / Old God stuff would have made a great expansion. The mix of both resulted in a messy, not-focused storyline that was poorly received.

    The lack of focus was the biggest issue as we've changed the focus from (mini) patch to patch. We started with the regional issues / faction war in 8.0 which culminated in Ul'dir (which was solely a regional conflict, Alliance couldn't have bothered at all). Then the focus was faction war again with the new warfront and BoD. All of a sudden Azshara made her move in 8.2 and the focus completely shifted towards that. In 8.2.5 the story was even split further as there was a civil war inside the Horde as well with Sylvanas loyalists vs. Horde / Alliance. And in 8.3 everything faction related was basically removed and it was all of a sudden an Old God climax now.

    Writing this alone made me shake my head on how bad BfA has been sequenced. It was a a hot mess. One major plot is more than enough to lead through an entire expansion. Than add bullsh*t like the Night Warrior storyline into the mix and you've got a hodgepodge that tastes like sh*t. That we don't have a conclusion to the Sylvanas storyline as of now doesn't help either. A complex story works, if there is a clear focus, something BfA lacked entirely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    I completely agree, and love Hardwing’s suggestion of a plot. We need a clear main storyline and independent zone storylines. In my opinion, WotLK was the closest to this balance.
    I think Legion did a good job as well in that regard. The scope was far bigger, that's true, but there were no real outliers that felt completely left of the field.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2021-10-17 at 05:32 PM.
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  16. #8776
    I wouldn't say BfA was convoluted. It was abysmally terrible and they rushed major plot points and characters, but not convoluted.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
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  17. #8777
    When we say BfA was convoluted, we don't mean that we personally found it difficult to understand, each plot branch moved perfectly reasonably according to its own internal logic. BfA was however very convoluted in that the bridges between teh storylines were poorly laid out, if they even existed at all.
    The faction war ended up having nothing to do with N'zoth, and yet at the end they tried to shoehorn the weakest justification in by having Sylvanas make a deal with Azshara, which was only explained during a blink and you miss it moment in the second phase of N'zoth.

    BfA isnt convoluted in htat the story is particularly complicated, the game doesnt even really have time to make it compliated. It is however convoluted in that its almost like 3 different expansions have been crammed together, and each of the stories desperately need to be given more time. At least the gobal Faction War storyline and the N'zoth storyline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    I wouldn't say BfA was convoluted. It was abysmally terrible and they rushed major plot points and characters, but not convoluted.
    It is convoluted in that there is no real consistent throughline that goes from start to finish.
    MoP started with faction war spilling over into Pandaria, then slowly going back into faction war at the end.
    Legion started with the Legion assaulting, and ended with pushing them back to Argus before defeating them.

    BfA started with Sylvanas burning Teldrassil and ended with N'zoth trying to take over the world.'

    There was no consistent story that organically led us from Teldrassil burning and global war beginning, towards an ending where we go around Uldum and Vale of Eternal Blossoms beating up N'zoths minions.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  18. #8778
    If you're not saying it was complicated or difficult to follow, then by definition it is not convoluted and a different word should be used. Overstuffed and disconnected are definitely more applicable.
    Last edited by GR8GODZILLAGOD; 2021-10-17 at 06:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
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  19. #8779
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    The fact that the story is overstuffed and disconnected makes it complicated and difficult to follow...
    Last edited by Arafal; 2021-10-17 at 06:35 PM.

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  20. #8780
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    The fact that the story is overstuffed and disconnected, makes it complicated and difficult to follow...
    It's dense, it's disconnected, it's slow, and it's remarkably impersonal despite it's plodding pace and seemingly interesting set of characters.

    Because when dealing with the covenants you're so much bigger than them to care, and when dealing with the faction leaders you're so much smaller than them to understand how their minds work.
    WoW has Cancer. First you cut out the cancer (abusive devs), then you assign an aggressive treatment plan (major design rework) to save it.

    Or you just let it die because that's too expensive.

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