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  1. #841
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    I said it before I’ll say it again
    The pantheon believe they made the cosmos but the first ones were Azeroth and Argus
    Argus...is literally...a Titan!

  2. #842
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Losing is unlikely. At worst the Jailer will finally be free and he can go where he wants
    Erm... that is a loss.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Argus...is literally...a Titan!
    Also, the titans aren't dumb enough to think they created the Universe when they woke up in an already established one.

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  3. #843
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Erm... that is a loss.

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    Also, the titans aren't dumb enough to think they created the Universe when they woke up in an already established one.
    Ikr? The Titan's literally believe that the Light and Void's clash made everything. Their main goal is to provide structure and order across the Cosmos, or at the very least Reality.

  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Argus...is literally...a Titan!
    Yes but we are told that the titans of the pantheon are the creators of everything while small hints since MoP points to there being titans before that

    Argus lived longer than memory

    Memory started when the time titan was born according to chronicle

    We are told Azeroth is the final titan but the line “she is not the last but the first” hints at it not being the case

    The reason we got out of the maw was because the first one’s artifact responded to us
    Not the former world shaman
    Not the child of light
    But the hero that is the chosen of Azeroth

    Oribos Looks like azerite is in it
    The arbiter is the color scheme of azerite
    Argus is the death titan
    Argus is the unmaker
    Zoval is trying to unmake everything
    Zoval has similar design to Argus

    Zoval and the arbiter are titan keepers
    The titans have a rebirth cycle and that’s why Azeroth and Argus were asleep

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I think he's talking about the Dreadlord storyline.
    But that was never indicated to be a campaign. It needn't even be seperate from the Covenant campaign. They only said we'd learn more about them in the new area, whose name i most definitely haven't forgotten already.

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    But that was never indicated to be a campaign. It needn't even be seperate from the Covenant campaign. They only said we'd learn more about them in the new area, whose name i most definitely haven't forgotten already.
    Eh you're right. I thought they said something about them having their own questline? May be wrong tho. Also, the area is called Korthia: The City of Secrets!

  7. #847
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Memory started when the time titan was born according to chronicle
    The Chronicles only cover things the Titans had knowledge of. And, well, that would start around the time the first of them became conciously aware of the world.

  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    The Chronicles only cover things the Titans had knowledge of. And, well, that would start around the time the first of them became conciously aware of the world.
    According to chronicle Amanthul was the first and he tried awakening multiple titans but he only managed to wake up the pantheon

    Amanthul is also the one that measures time and chronicle is written from their viewpoint so the possibility of Azeroth and Argus living before them is very possible and according to 1,000 years war Argus has memories from before time

    It’s possible that Argus and Azeroth are what caused the creation of the cosmos as we now know that the titans and the other cosmic forces are being manipulated

    Sargeras was told the void lords are looking to corrupt a titan which led to his rebellion

  9. #849
    Bloodsail Admiral Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    We are told Azeroth is the final titan but the line “she is not the last but the first” hints at it not being the case

    The reason we got out of the maw was because the first one’s artifact responded to us
    This is the only solid evidence for this theory, so not much at all.

    Though I could see blizzard pulling that out of their ass and doing it. Not sure if that would be clever or terrible.

  10. #850
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    This is the only solid evidence for this theory, so not much at all.

    Though I could see blizzard pulling that out of their ass and doing it. Not sure if that would be clever or terrible.
    Making the story “hey remember those titans you’ve helped??? Turns out you’ve been helping a lie”

    The dreadlords all serve the jailer even lothraxian according to the book in game about them manipulating every force including the light

    So why is this important???
    Because the dreadlords in the burning legion are responsible for Sargeras going crazy and searching for the other titans like Argus and Azeroth. They gave him the helm of domination and frostmourne which he used. His entire plan of finding Azeroth could be the product of the Jailer’s plan and the reason why could be so he could kill the titan responsible for the arbiter and the titan of creation.

    This is all a stretch but based on Blizzard’s past “twists” it is very likely

  11. #851
    Bloodsail Admiral Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Making the story “hey remember those titans you’ve helped??? Turns out you’ve been helping a lie”

    The dreadlords all serve the jailer even lothraxian according to the book in game about them manipulating every force including the light

    So why is this important???
    Because the dreadlords in the burning legion are responsible for Sargeras going crazy and searching for the other titans like Argus and Azeroth. They gave him the helm of domination and frostmourne which he used. His entire plan of finding Azeroth could be the product of the Jailer’s plan and the reason why could be so he could kill the titan responsible for the arbiter and the titan of creation.

    This is all a stretch but based on Blizzard’s past “twists” it is very likely
    I still think it's unlikely they will retcon Azeroth to being a First One, but you do make some valid points. Most of the Nathrezim plot looks promising regardless of what Azeroth is, I'm currently wondering if the Jailer really is their master or if it's Denathrius.

  12. #852
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I still think it's unlikely they will retcon Azeroth to being a First One, but you do make some valid points. Most of the Nathrezim plot looks promising regardless of what Azeroth is, I'm currently wondering if the Jailer really is their master or if it's Denathrius.
    It’s the jailer
    You see them in 9.1 and the way the book is written
    They also are said to serve the master of death which is Zoval


    I’m guessing in 9.1 we learn more about why we were able to activate the waystone and in the new zone there will be story bits about the creation of the shadowlands



    Kinda off topic I’m going to also guess that the reason the light attacked revendreth was because of what was done to Arthas’ soul since he was “loved by the light” and Denathrius was likely tasked with twisting him so the naaru went all momma bear

  13. #853
    Bloodsail Admiral Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    It’s the jailer
    You see them in 9.1 and the way the book is written
    They also are said to serve the master of death which is Zoval


    I’m guessing in 9.1 we learn more about why we were able to activate the waystone and in the new zone there will be story bits about the creation of the shadowlands



    Kinda off topic I’m going to also guess that the reason the light attacked revendreth was because of what was done to Arthas’ soul since he was “loved by the light” and Denathrius was likely tasked with twisting him so the naaru went all momma bear
    I hope it's Zovaal, though I wonder what the obvious connection between Denathrius and the Dreadlords may be.

  14. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Yes but we are told that the titans of the pantheon are the creators of everything while small hints since MoP points to there being titans before that

    Argus lived longer than memory

    Memory started when the time titan was born according to chronicle

    We are told Azeroth is the final titan but the line “she is not the last but the first” hints at it not being the case

    The reason we got out of the maw was because the first one’s artifact responded to us
    Not the former world shaman
    Not the child of light
    But the hero that is the chosen of Azeroth

    Oribos Looks like azerite is in it
    The arbiter is the color scheme of azerite
    Argus is the death titan
    Argus is the unmaker
    Zoval is trying to unmake everything
    Zoval has similar design to Argus

    Zoval and the arbiter are titan keepers
    The titans have a rebirth cycle and that’s why Azeroth and Argus were asleep
    Well, Argus’ world soul is older than memory. While Aman’Thul was BORN when Memory was a thing. It’s possible he himself still existed as energy within reality prior to memory itself.

    We don’t know why the relic activated. The Azeroth explanation has been made mute awhile ago.

    Oribos doesn’t look like Azerite at all, what?

    The Arbiter has the colors of Oribos. Not of Azerite. Stop. Azerite is Gold and Blue, while Oribos is moreso bronze, black, etc.

    Sargeras also wanted to unmake Creation, which was exactly why he needed Argus. It was his means of doing such a factor. Also, the Jailer wants to unmake the entire WoW Verse. Creation could just mean reality, which is actually makes Argus and Sargeras seem pathetic to the Jailer if true, which is kinda already the case anyway, in the 10-D plot chess department, that is.

    Zovaal and Argus are not similar in design. Outside of Argus being Blue (Which is just him empowered by Anima), nothing is similar. I’d argue Argus houses similar looks to Oribos and the wear of the Eternal Travellers, however.

    So what if Argus is the death Titan? Eonar is the Life binder of the Titans, is directly compared to Ardenweald and the Winter Queen apparently (So, maybe Eonar is apart of the Pantheon of Life aswell? Who knows), and Sargeras legit ruled over the realms of Disorder once he freed the demons from Mardum and made the Burning Legion.

    Zovaal and the Arbiter are totally not Titan Keepers. Zovaal is ranging from multiple guys that he is a Titan to Titan++ lvl foe, and the Arbiter is older than the Titans and is arguably higher than the Titans in status, even if a little.

    The Eternal Ones are also confirmed to be relative to the other Pantheons such as the s Titans and co, so there is no fucking reason we should compare these guys to mere Titan Keepers. Stop it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I hope it's Zovaal, though I wonder what the obvious connection between Denathrius and the Dreadlords may be.
    Denathrius probably used the Dreadlords (which were likely one Denathrius’ most loyal champions/sin harvesters at the time) as a means of carrying out Zovaal’s command while he was trapped within the Maw.

    Zovaal probably thought Death shouldn’t be chained, and therefore tried to either attack the Arbiter, or assault the Planes of Life to fuck with the balance a bit, which failed horribly, and was deemed horrible enough as to send the guy to the banished realm of the newly made Maw, made just for him and the other evil asf forces that are deemed irredeemable by sheer nature and will.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Steve hasn’t made that weird ass Titan Keeper comparison since the interview regarding the Winter Queen, and that was pretty early in SL’s development.

  15. #855
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    It’s possible that Argus and Azeroth are what caused the creation of the cosmos as we now know that the titans and the other cosmic forces are being manipulated
    Possible, yes. But possible doesn't mean probable. So far, there's no evidence that this actually happened, and the Titans seem rather limited to the mortal realm for some reason. Their knowledge about the other forces and their realms appears quite meager and sketchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    This is the only solid evidence for this theory, so not much at all.

    Though I could see blizzard pulling that out of their ass and doing it. Not sure if that would be clever or terrible.
    It's effectively nothing, since we don't really know the context.

  16. #856
    The Jailer is just another puppet for the Nathrezim, he absolutely is not their master, lol. He's a one man show (and not even a good one) for just one single expansion.

    I think they might be the real threat in the end and after killing the Jailer in the last patch of Shadowlands we realize that which will be the transition into the next expansion, dealing with Nathrezim and the first real encounter with Void Lords (more Broker stuff etc.). I think we're heading towards a Karesh-like expansion.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  17. #857
    I have a feeling each of our Azeroth characters will take part in the next set of covenant campaigns as the rally characters.

    Thrall can travel to Maldraxxus, connect with Draka (maybe Garrosh gets involved too based on hints that he cov swapped in that interview), and bring the Necrolords into the Maw.

    Calia heads to Bastion, finds Uther, and given his past with her brother might look to help him on his path of redemption as she brings the Kyrian to the fight against the Jailer.

    Jaina can head to Revendreth, find her old friend Kael'thas, maybe bring some sanity to the poor dude (lol nope), as she brings the Venthyr to fight the Jailer.

    Lastly, Baine... can well... he can sit in Oribos like a good boy.


    ...no but really, Huln is big among Tauren culture, so Baine can be the connection to the Night Fae.

    Blizz chose the characters they chose for a reason, from both Azeroth and Shadowlands. I feel it's due to Blizz wanting to create interactions between these dead characters and those still living... or unliving in Calia's case.

  18. #858
    Quote Originally Posted by Nize View Post
    I have a feeling each of our Azeroth characters will take part in the next set of covenant campaigns as the rally characters.

    Thrall can travel to Maldraxxus, connect with Draka (maybe Garrosh gets involved too based on hints that he cov swapped in that interview), and bring the Necrolords into the Maw.

    Calia heads to Bastion, finds Uther, and given his past with her brother might look to help him on his path of redemption as she brings the Kyrian to the fight against the Jailer.

    Jaina can head to Revendreth, find her old friend Kael'thas, maybe bring some sanity to the poor dude (lol nope), as she brings the Venthyr to fight the Jailer.

    Lastly, Baine... can well... he can sit in Oribos like a good boy.


    ...no but really, Huln is big among Tauren culture, so Baine can be the connection to the Night Fae.

    Blizz chose the characters they chose for a reason, from both Azeroth and Shadowlands. I feel it's due to Blizz wanting to create interactions between these dead characters and those still living... or unliving in Calia's case.
    Honestly, this sounds like a very good idea and seems plausible to me - most likely too plausible to be used by Blizzard though.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    The Jailer is just another puppet for the Nathrezim, he absolutely is not their master, lol. He's a one man show (and not even a good one) for just one single expansion.

    I think they might be the real threat in the end and after killing the Jailer in the last patch of Shadowlands we realize that which will be the transition into the next expansion, dealing with Nathrezim and the first real encounter with Void Lords (more Broker stuff etc.). I think we're heading towards a Karesh-like expansion.
    Ka'resh will likely be a patch, like Argus. But, yeah, I do expect Light and Shadow to be 10.0. However, to say that the Jailer is "one man" is kinda dumb. The dude's the Enemy of All for a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Making the story “hey remember those titans you’ve helped??? Turns out you’ve been helping a lie”

    The dreadlords all serve the jailer even lothraxian according to the book in game about them manipulating every force including the light

    So why is this important???
    Because the dreadlords in the burning legion are responsible for Sargeras going crazy and searching for the other titans like Argus and Azeroth. They gave him the helm of domination and frostmourne which he used. His entire plan of finding Azeroth could be the product of the Jailer’s plan and the reason why could be so he could kill the titan responsible for the arbiter and the titan of creation.

    This is all a stretch but based on Blizzard’s past “twists” it is very likely
    Why do you think the Titans are this "end all be all" power? They suck dick, bro.

  20. #860
    I doubt each of the 4 rescuees from Torghast will go to each different zone, just seems a tad contrived on all levels. Mostly because it massively undercuts the characters we already have there.

    I could see something where they have a bit more interraction depending on where the covenants sets up camp. Thrall meeting Draka seems like a given, but while Jaina does have somewhat of a connection ot Kael'thas, Baine going to Ardenweald would really just feel like Blizzard arbitrarily choosing him since he is th only one left, not ot mention that Shandris is already there.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

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