Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Gaidax]

What sabotage? Make it a pre-recorded stream and not something live, you could prevent every kind of negativity that way.

Then it's not BlizzCon.

BlizzCon was always about community and community events. Removing that makes it pointless.

Might as well not do it, which is what they did.

[Varodoc]

And you know this was always planned this way since before Covid? It is obvious that 9.1 contains a lot of elements that would've been part of 9.2 without Covid.

Yes, I know it.

And No, 9.1 doesn't contain any element that was meant for 9.2. 9.1 features an upgraded Maw, 9.2 will not feature the Maw in any way since the Janitor is finally free and can go wherever he want, so he's not going to stay in his prison. 9.1 features the Battle of Ardenweald while 9.2 is not going to feature any of the Shadowlands zones since again the Janitor is looking to unmake the Cosmos entirely. 9.1 features many upgrades the Covenants as well as Covenants quests in the Maw, which would never be featured in 9.2 since the Janitor now has all the sigils he needs and has no further interest for the Covenants.

[crusadernero]

And you know this was always planned this way since before Covid? It is obvious that 9.1 contains a lot of elements that would've been part of 9.2 without Covid.

With how 9.1 ended(the cinematic in raid), I cant see Blizzard make a 9.3. What would that even be?

[Varodoc]

8.2 was Naga instead of Faction war or N'zoth (yes I know they are somewhat linked).

"Something slightly off-theme from the main plot"

The main plot of BfA is literally about Kul Tiras losing its fleet due to Azshara's meddling, N'Zoth taking advantage of the Fourth War to return, and Azshara making plans to bring him back. 8.3 literally starts from where 8.2 left off. Azshara even appears as a boss in Ny'alotha, taken prisoner and tortured by N'Zoth's cultists as a direct continuation of what happened at the end of 8.2.

4.2 was Firelands instead of Deathwing or Twilights hammer

The Twilight's Hammer Cult was mostly wiped out at that point. What you see in Dragon Soul are the remnants of the Cult after Cho'gall and the rest of their leadership were wiped out. Ragnaros, like Deathwing, was trying to bring forth the Hour of Twilight in N'Zoth's name. His version of Hour of Twilight would have meant the utter annihilation of Nordrassil and Orgrimmar, as shown in a vision to Thrall. Also, as revealed in the questing experience, Ragnaros was allied with Deathwing.

WoD was cut short, but if based on the original plan then 6.2 would have likely been Shattrath, most likely Draenei cultists instead of Orcs.

Linked to the final patch then. Shattrath was in the hands of the Shadow Council and the Sargerei, who brought the Legion to Draenor.

Also the Sargerei had an entire section in Hellfire Citadel and their leader Socrethar even returned one last time.

[Sondrelk]

With how 9.1 ended(the cinematic in raid), I cant see Blizzard make a 9.3. What would that even be?

9.2: Search for the important macguffin needed to defeat Zovaal.
Or alternatively
9.2: We cannot follow Zovaal immediately, but this other thing is also importnat to deal with.

This would hardly be the first time what is supposedly the most important issue in the story gets superceded by something else.
Defeating Deathwing was just as important before as it was after Firelands, but the story had no problem taking a sizeable detour into Hyjal dealing with those problems instead of defeating Deathwing first.

[crusadernero]

9.2: Search for the important macguffin needed to defeat Zovaal.
Or alternatively
9.2: We cannot follow Zovaal immediately, but this other thing is also importnat to deal with.

This would hardly be the first time what is supposedly the most important issue in the story gets superceded by something else.
Defeating Deathwing was just as important before as it was after Firelands, but the story had no problem taking a sizeable detour into Hyjal dealing with those problems instead of defeating Deathwing first.

sure, but how SL has progressed storywise makes me think theres nothing else than facing the jailer and deal with all of that. Theres nothing standing out as a unexplored or unresolved issue in SL. Theres nothing important going on in the zones, the covenant are resolved.

[Sondrelk]

"Something slightly off-theme from the main plot"

The main plot of BfA is literally about Kul Tiras losing its fleet due to Azshara's meddling, N'Zoth taking advantage of the Fourth War to return, and Azshara making plans to bring him back. 8.3 literally starts from where 8.2 left off. Azshara even appears as a boss in Ny'alotha, taken prisoner and tortured by N'Zoth's cultists as a direct continuation of what happened at the end of 8.2.



The Twilight's Hammer Cult was mostly wiped out at that point. What you see in Dragon Soul are the remnants of the Cult after Cho'gall and the rest of their leadership were wiped out. Ragnaros, like Deathwing, was trying to bring forth the Hour of Twilight in N'Zoth's name. His version of Hour of Twilight would have meant the utter annihilation of Nordrassil and Orgrimmar, as shown in a vision to Thrall. Also, as revealed in the questing experience, Ragnaros was allied with Deathwing.


Linked to the final patch then. Shattrath was in the hands of the Shadow Council and the Sargerei, who brought the Legion to Draenor.

Also the Sargerei had an entire section in Hellfire Citadel and their leader Socrethar even returned one last time.

Regardless the X.2 patches are often visually distinct from the rest, how much ipact it has on the main plot does vary. In Cata Ragnaros was in league with Deathwing, so you could argue that defeating him made Deathwing weaker, and in 3.4 Yogg-saron was important for the greater mystery of Death surrounding the Lich King.

The point isnt that they are completely separate entities narratively, but that they are not directly relevant to the main plot, and more importantly that they are visually a completely different beast from the main plot.
Regardless of how much the Naga have to do with N'zoth and have meddled with the Kul'rans and whatnot, that doesnt change the fact that the NAga aesthetic was a tiny part of the surrounding expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

Not directly linked narratively on the surface levle I should say.
Even 5.2 was important for the greater faction war theme of MoP despite how much of a detour it was to the story of defeating Garrosh.

[Varodoc]

Regardless the X.2 patches are often visually distinct from the rest, how much ipact it has on the main plot does vary. In Cata Ragnaros was in league with Deathwing, so you could argue that defeating him made Deathwing weaker, and in 3.4 Yogg-saron was important for the greater mystery of Death surrounding the Lich King.

The point isnt that they are completely separate entities narratively, but that they are not directly relevant to the main plot, and more importantly that they are visually a completely different beast from the main plot.
Regardless of how much the Naga have to do with N'zoth and have meddled with the Kul'rans and whatnot, that doesnt change the fact that the NAga aesthetic was a tiny part of the surrounding expansion.

Based on that portal the Janitor opened at the end, I can already tell you that 9.2 will be about the First Ones and will be very visibly distinct from Shadowlands, which was about Death.

Also, the Naga aesthetic is literally all over Stormsong. The Naga presence WAS there, you're just ignoring it massively.

[Sondrelk]

sure, but how SL has progressed storywise makes me think theres nothing else than facing the jailer and deal with all of that. Theres nothing standing out as a unexplored or unresolved issue in SL. Theres nothing important going on in the zones, the covenant are resolved.

Thros is still somewhere and not actually conclusively defeated. Stuff could happen back on Azeroth. Or something even more out of left field, like an unexplored realm of death that is important to some extent. If we could spend time going to Tazavesh then I don't see why there couldnt be somewhere else important like the Nathrezim that could take our time.

And for that matter what could happen easily is that 9.2 is Zereth Mortis, but we are again too late to stop Zovaal, leading to a desperate last defence on Azeroth or somewhere else in 9.3. It's really not that difficult to see what kind o stories the game could tell with an extra patch.

[Nyel]

Then it's not BlizzCon.

BlizzCon was always about community and community events. Removing that makes it pointless.

Might as well not do it, which is what they did.

Yeah, it's not BlizzCon, it's Blizzconline. That's already a major difference. That no Blizzcon with live audience is happening was expected. But Blizzconline is already the most curated event possible.

[huth]

Thros is still somewhere and not actually conclusively defeated. Stuff could happen back on Azeroth. Or something even more out of left field, like an unexplored realm of death that is important to some extent. If we could spend time going to Tazavesh then I don't see why there couldnt be somewhere else important like the Nathrezim that could take our time.

And for that matter what could happen easily is that 9.2 is Zereth Mortis, but we are again too late to stop Zovaal, leading to a desperate last defence on Azeroth or somewhere else in 9.3. It's really not that difficult to see what kind o stories the game could tell with an extra patch.

Or it could easily be about us finding a way of actually doing something about/getting to the Jailer. We know where he went, but we don't actually have a way of getting there yet, and so far nothing we did has so much as fazed him. They could send us pretty much anywhere with that.

[Sondrelk]

Based on that portal the Janitor opened at the end, I can already tell you that 9.2 will be about the First Ones and will be very visibly distinct from Shadowlands, which was about Death.

Also, the Naga aesthetic is literally all over Stormsong. The Naga presence WAS there, you're just ignoring it massively.

I am not saying it isnt there. I am saying that the X.2 patches usually deals with something that is tangentially involved in the main plot ot varying degrees, and which visually is only a small part of the initial and final expansion.

8.0 and 8.1 had Naga, but it was a smaller part usually for some questlines and flavor. 8.3 was all about N'zoth and the Naga were only shown as important during a single boss fight where Azshara was tortured.
8.2 meanwhile was Naga everywhere. Almsot all teh questliens were naga related, we were in a fully naga themed zone. The cosmetics and general rewards were naga themed, and with the exception of a single Faceless boss the raid was all about naga.
There was also Mechagon I suppose, but that had even less to do with the overall plot. It's relation to the faction war storyline was relegated to a couple PvP quests, and the relation to the Old God stuff was even more tangential.

[Varodoc]

I am not saying it isnt there. I am saying that the X.2 patches usually deals with something that is tangentially involved in the main plot ot varying degrees, and which visually is only a small part of the initial and final expansion.

8.0 and 8.1 had Naga, but it was a smaller part usually for some questlines and flavor. 8.3 was all about N'zoth and the Naga were only shown as important during a single boss fight where Azshara was tortured.
8.2 meanwhile was Naga everywhere. Almsot all teh questliens were naga related, we were in a fully naga themed zone. The cosmetics and general rewards were naga themed, and with the exception of a single Faceless boss the raid was all about naga.
There was also Mechagon I suppose, but that had even less to do with the overall plot. It's relation to the faction war storyline was relegated to a couple PvP quests, and the relation to the Old God stuff was even more tangential.

Not really a "small part" when 2/3 of the zones in Kul Tiras are ruined by Azshara's meddling.

The main antagonist of Tiragarde Sound is Lady Ashvane who was in league with Azshara, while the main antagonist of Stormsong Valley is Lord Stormsong who is also a puppet of Azshara and imprisoned the Kul Tiran fleet for her. There's even a cutscene where Stormsong and Azshara meet that is treated as the big reveal of the big bad behind all of the mess going on in Kul Tiras.

It was insanely predictable that there would be a patch about Azshara, really the only weird thing is that Blizzard would reduce her to a single patch instead of an entire expansion.

[Raetary]

I can already tell you that 9.2 will be about the First Ones and will be very visibly distinct from Shadowlands, which was about Death.

I fail to see how a first ones aesthetic is gonna be removed from the 'death' setting, when the point of interest we are looking for is called "The Sepulcher" and the zone we are gonna visit "Zereth Mortis"

Death is very much gonna be the theme throughout the whole thing.

[Varodoc]

There's no pattern according to which x2 patches are """"removed from the main expansion's theme"""" and """"side stories""". There are already plenty of exceptions. MMO-Champion forum users noticing some vague coincidences does not constitute a pattern.

It is already confirmed Patch 9.2 won't thematically be about Death anyway since the First Ones are the creators of all forces and thus are not associated to Death exclusively.

[NikolaiShade]

A much simpler buildup that requires almost nothing is one where faction leaders are acting "off" in ways that end up being because of old god influence. Sylvanas disappears at the beginning, some think she is abandoning the Horde, some think she is waging a secret war. And then, 8.2 comes around and shows that no, Sylvanas was actually in league with Azshara to release N'zoth all along.

The faction war didn't need to be more than a series of protracted skirmishes for the story to function. Even the warfronts could just be portrayed as regular border conflicts that have slightly escalated because of old god influence.

Even simpler, old gods cultist infiltrate both factions, burn the tree, cause the war and Sylvanas knows everything but since it fits her plan does nothing. Ingame toons ofc don't know this, but players do and Blizzard could have even put in a commentary about war, hatred, and how easily it is to fool people into a conflict when the same people want that conflict

[Nyel]

I fail to see how a first ones aesthetic is gonna be removed from the 'death' setting, when the point of interest we are looking for is called "The Sepulcher" and the zone we are gonna visit "Zereth Mortis"

Death is very much gonna be the theme throughout the whole thing.

Death can mean a lot. Do you know The Good Place? That's the exact opposite of how you imagine death. So while the theme can be the same, how it's portrayed can be different aka visibly distinct.

[LordKharon]

I am sure Blizz planned Shadowblands to be a "normal" expansion with 9.1/9.2/9.3 patches. But then Covid hit and Blizz was really struggling to change to work at home. They already had big problems with the initial expansion even before release (systems tuning being the worst) and probably also with content creation for follow up patches. I guess after delaying 9.0 they realized there was no way for them to do 3 big patches in basically the following 12 month. Then they changed everything to end on 9.2. Together with the endless systems/class tuning that made the delays even worse.... and here we are today. We will get 9.2 Q1/2022 but i wont be surprised if its no larger then 9.1. Internally they are already mostly working on the next expansion for release in Q4/2022.

[NikolaiShade]

I am sure Blizz planned Shadowblands to be a "normal" expansion with 9.1/9.2/9.3 patches. But then Covid hit and Blizz was really struggling to change to work at home. They already had big problems with the initial expansion even before release (systems tuning being the worst) and probably also with content creation for follow up patches. I guess after delaying 9.0 they realized there was no way for them to do 3 big patches in basically the following 12 month. Then they changed everything to end on 9.2. Together with the endless systems/class tuning that made the delays even worse.... and here we are today. We will get 9.2 Q1/2022 but i wont be surprised if its no larger then 9.1. Internally they are already mostly working on the next expansion for release in Q4/2022.

I mostly agree with you, none the less, conidering the initial delays, the Covid, and all the legal troubles, I'm starting to wonder how realistic it could ne for Blizzard to cram the entire expac story in two major patches and then release 10.0 as nothing happened.

[Raetary]

Death can mean a lot. Do you know The Good Place? That's the exact opposite of how you imagine death. So while the theme can be the same, how it's portrayed can be different aka visibly distinct.

...Ok?
I don't really know what to do with your response, thanks for pointing out the obvious?

The point i'm making, is that the zone will not be removed from the expansions 'death' setting just because its First ones related.
In fact, the opposite will happen as the place is literally made to be a focal point of the whole structure, hence its naming.