1. #1321
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Well, i'll be damned. You're right. Though, it is more of a long-rifle than a pistol:
    In TTRPGs you often find homebrew versions that use flint-lock pistols as a side-arm. I'm not sure about their historical context, might be late feudal era stuff because no one without a death wish could pretend guns don't exist forever. I can just tell you that the asociation is not entirely wrong when it comes to RPGs. Maybe it's a bit of creative/fantasy license, since paladins didn't exactly smite people literally either .

    Edit:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_(gun)
    The wiki artile also has some pistol versions near the bottom in the Edo era section. I guess my hunch wasn't too far off. Before the end of the era of samurai they were mainly hunting and sport weaponry, might as well carry just a hand gun around instead of a rifle if that is all you need them for. Maybe it's a trope that has it's roots in period dramas or some weeb stuff I'm unaware of. Either way, the association of samurai with guns exists. Obviously for WoW that might be different, since all we have here is some flimsy orc lore that has barely been explored and is more a testament to metzen's and samwise didier's weeb streak (which they mellowed out alot with WoW as I feel).
    Last edited by Haidaes; 2021-04-08 at 08:33 AM.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  2. #1322
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    World of Warcraft: A Deafening Silence

    A very interesting take ! I like that you kept the mystery of Azeroth's whereabout, a thing that Blizzard kinda sucks at now. I would have gone for a more direct approach, I think. Un'goro and Uldum are pretty good elements to deal within, since they are both Titans facilities and it's a fine idea to deal with the sword in Silithus too !

    I also entirely with the idea to revamp zones gradually, makes it less of the hassle and allows more care for each one !

    New Class and New Races are always welcome, especially those who have been asked for so long ! I might go wild on that point.

    I didn't know about the Ishgard Restoration at all, but your planning and gameplay for the rebuilding efforts seem very well-thought, and I don't think there's much different ways to handle that. I too would have started with Gilneas xD

    First raid seems enticing, delving into the Heart Chamber facility is a good starting point to make the connection with BFA events.
    Last edited by DatToffer; 2021-04-08 at 08:50 AM.

  3. #1323
    Quote Originally Posted by ExiHext View Post
    Are there any lore sources how the birth of a titan works?
    We don't. And I guess Blizz can pull anything out of their butthole. Normally with IRL rules I'm fairly certain it would kill all life. I mean can you imagine a Sargeras sized chunk disappearing from the planet core? I'm sure Blizzard can handwave it saying it's all magic and the titan awakening makes life even better. How much sense it makes is another question.

  4. #1324
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Well at the very least the tides will go insane if the planet decides to fuck off somewhere.
    I don't think you have any sources to back it up. And if you just try to apply our laws of physics.. well, don't you think giant sword sticking out of planet visible from space wouldn't already fuck everything up?

  5. #1325
    An idea that floated around for a world revamp which I very much champion is that instead of Blizzard redesigning the old zones as insular zones they instead take zones with things in common and think of them as giant zones.

    Instead of having all the different Lordaeron zones and having to pick and choose which one is the main one you instead redesign them as "Lordaeron" and save some time that way. Each zone would still have its own charms, but they wouldn't all need to be fully fledged out zones like we know them now.
    In my draft for a new expansion for instance I imagined the Lordaeron faction to have a storyline spanning all the zone, with endgame world quests and similar on a rotation so you visited all zones.

    The downside to this would obviously be less distinct zones, but the upside would be less time spent on details and more on the greater picture of what zones could be.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  6. #1326
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    I don't think you have any sources to back it up. And if you just try to apply our laws of physics.. well, don't you think giant sword sticking out of planet visible from space wouldn't already fuck everything up?
    Kinda yes. Also it should have fucked things up here as well. The planet was literally dying according to Magni. Yet we only had a few azerite spills that kickstarted the war only to be completely forgotten about by the time we reach endgame content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    They even used cannons, which is weird to me:
    Considering gunpowder was invented just across the sea, it shouldn't be that weird.

    But yes, matchlock rifles were actually quite popular. Nobunaga loved them. It is absolutely not the popular samurai archetype, but it is nonetheless historically accurate.

  7. #1327
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    An idea that floated around for a world revamp which I very much champion is that instead of Blizzard redesigning the old zones as insular zones they instead take zones with things in common and think of them as giant zones.

    Instead of having all the different Lordaeron zones and having to pick and choose which one is the main one you instead redesign them as "Lordaeron" and save some time that way. Each zone would still have its own charms, but they wouldn't all need to be fully fledged out zones like we know them now.
    In my draft for a new expansion for instance I imagined the Lordaeron faction to have a storyline spanning all the zone, with endgame world quests and similar on a rotation so you visited all zones.

    The downside to this would obviously be less distinct zones, but the upside would be less time spent on details and more on the greater picture of what zones could be.
    They actually did the opposite in Cataclysm, chiefly STV by breakign it up into 2 different zones, which was a shame and I think a detriment to STV overall. Same with The Barrens.

    Mega-zones would definitely be a cool idea.

  8. #1328
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    In TTRPGs you often find homebrew versions that use flint-lock pistols as a side-arm. I'm not sure about their historical context, might be late feudal era stuff because no one without a death wish could pretend guns don't exist forever. I can just tell you that the asociation is not entirely wrong when it comes to RPGs. Maybe it's a bit of creative/fantasy license, since paladins didn't exactly smite people literally either .

    Edit:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_(gun)
    The wiki artile also has some pistol versions near the bottom in the Edo era section. I guess my hunch wasn't too far off. Before the end of the era of samurai they were mainly hunting and sport weaponry, might as well carry just a hand gun around instead of a rifle if that is all you need them for. Maybe it's a trope that has it's roots in period dramas or some weeb stuff I'm unaware of. Either way, the association of samurai with guns exists. Obviously for WoW that might be different, since all we have here is some flimsy orc lore that has barely been explored and is more a testament to metzen's and samwise didier's weeb streak (which they mellowed out alot with WoW as I feel).


    Never in my life have i thought i would see a Samurai using a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Considering gunpowder was invented just across the sea, it shouldn't be that weird.

    But yes, matchlock rifles were actually quite popular. Nobunaga loved them. It is absolutely not the popular samurai archetype, but it is nonetheless historically accurate.
    I've, always, knew about chinese fireworks, but not that.
    Guess i gotta see more of that Samurai documentary on Netflix.
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  9. #1329
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    They actually did the opposite in Cataclysm, chiefly STV by breakign it up into 2 different zones, which was a shame and I think a detriment to STV overall. Same with The Barrens.

    Mega-zones would definitely be a cool idea.
    Just to clarify further: Not making amalgamating the zones into a big one, but rather treating the relevant zones as one cohesive whole.

    Right now we have a rep and storyline per zone, this is what is unrealistic for a world revamp, so instead you would have all of that spread over further zones.

    Lordaeron for isntance would be comprised of Tirisfal Glades, Silverpine forest, Hillsbrad foothills and the Eastern and Western plaguelands. You would then have a relevant faction for these zones, maybe something like "Stratholme refugees" and the story would be around former refugees reestablishing themselves in all the zones, with variations on the specifics of what that entails based on specific zone. Western Plaguelands centering around tensionms in Andorhal, Tirisfal centering around Sylvanas extremists, Eastern Plaguelands around establishing safe zones fromthe plague, etc.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #1330
    Herald of the Titans ercarp's Avatar
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    9.2 and 9.3
    I'm still expecting a raid with Mueh'zala at some point given the events that took place inside De Other Side. They've made him out to be a pretty powerful entity, so he could get his own raid as the final boss of the 9.2 raid, which would almost definitely be Drust-themed based on the strange connection between Mueh'zala, the Winter Queen, and the Drust. Or he may return as the second to last boss of the 9.3 raid (with Zovaal being the final boss, of course).

    10.0
    As for what's coming after Shadowlands... well, there's always the same three or four themes that are thrown around every time there's any speculation on what the next expansion is. Dragon Isles and Void are probably the most common and plausible, but I've also seen mentions of a completely subterranean expansion (with Tinkers, Undermine, Azjol-Nerub, etc.), or even a South Seas one (even though that was basically what BfA was supposed to be).

    I haven't seen any hints in-game yet so I think it's way too early to speculate on what the next expansion is, but it's almost definitely not going to be Void since I think Blizzard is saving that for much, much later (maybe something like 14.0 or 15.0).

    My hope is that we get a more grounded expansion with a complete revamp of Azeroth, but who knows what's going to happen. They could throw us a complete curveball with something like Fogs of Vulperia.

  11. #1331
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    We don't. And I guess Blizz can pull anything out of their butthole. Normally with IRL rules I'm fairly certain it would kill all life. I mean can you imagine a Sargeras sized chunk disappearing from the planet core? I'm sure Blizzard can handwave it saying it's all magic and the titan awakening makes life even better. How much sense it makes is another question.
    As much sense as planets giving birth to lifeforms. xD
    And I'd imagine a "baby titan" as some form of arcane energy within the planet, not some kind of genuine embryo that grows inside.

  12. #1332
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    My hope is that we get a more grounded expansion with a complete revamp of Azeroth, but who knows what's going to happen. They could throw us a complete curveball with something like Fogs of Vulperia.
    Fogs of Vulperia? Count me in, MoP was amazing and very vast in scope, I’d instantly be here for another MoP like expansion.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  13. #1333
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Fogs of Vulperia? Count me in, MoP was amazing and very vast in scope, I’d instantly be here for another MoP like expansion.
    The next one after MoP should be Broom. Blackrock: Outland's Oddest Mountain.

  14. #1334
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Pistols, for example.
    Grappling Hook.
    Roll the Bones.
    Bribe (in the past).
    Cannonball Barrage (in the past).

    You can't just impose the Samurai archetype on that of the Pirate, just because they use a melee weapon and stack agility.
    Very little of that is specificially pirate and more generally seamen. For that matter, nothings stops a samurai from becoming a pirate, since a pirate is mostly defined by their plundering ships, not their fighting style or weapon choice.

    Also, Samurai are well known to have used pistols, muskets and cannons. In particular, muskets were actually a lot more common in japanese warfare after their introduction than they were in Europe at the same time and almost completely replaced the bow (also a traditional Samurai war weapon).

    Grappling Hook and Roll the Bones would require a visual re-design, but it wouldn't be too hard to come up with an equivalent that is functionally identical.

  15. #1335
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Very little of that is specificially pirate and more generally seamen. For that matter, nothings stops a samurai from becoming a pirate, since a pirate is mostly defined by their plundering ships, not their fighting style or weapon choice.

    Also, Samurai are well known to have used pistols, muskets and cannons. In particular, muskets were actually a lot more common in japanese warfare after their introduction than they were in Europe at the same time and almost completely replaced the bow (also a traditional Samurai war weapon).

    Grappling Hook and Roll the Bones would require a visual re-design, but it wouldn't be too hard to come up with an equivalent that is functionally identical.
    Call it seamen, call it sailor, call it admiral or whatever you want.

    You're mixing fantasies and archetypes.
    Though i now know they used pistols, they were no pirate equivalents of the Japanese.
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  16. #1336
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Call it seamen, call it sailor, call it admiral or whatever you want.

    You're mixing fantasies and archetypes.
    Though i now know they used pistols, they were no pirate equivalents of the Japanese.
    Nor did i say they were. But a pirate isn't defined by a combat style, that's at best secondary to their chosen lifestyle. Pirate type characters have been all over the place in fiction because there isn't any actual "style" here other than maybe a loose dress code.

  17. #1337
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Nor did i say they were. But a pirate isn't defined by a combat style, that's at best secondary to their chosen lifestyle. Pirate type characters have been all over the place in fiction because there isn't any actual "style" here other than maybe a loose dress code.
    There is. Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to categorize them into a class' spec.
    Go play something like Assassin Creed: Black Flag, for example. Or watch Pirates of the Carribean. You'd get some notion...
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  18. #1338
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    You should! I'd be totally interested to see what you come up with.
    Okay, so here I go !

    World of Warcraft : Rise of a Titan

    After we prevented the Jailer from snuffing out Azeroth's life, we come back to see our planet finally giving birth to its Titan being. This would be the expac cinematic and it would have to be of absolutely epic proportions. Sadly, the multiple blows dealt to our world (the Great Sundering, the Cataclysm, the sword of Sargeras and now the Jailer's attack) have weakened her and she remains tethered to the planet, her body erupting halfway through the Maelstrom.

    Magni will put his caretaker hat once again to help her and call the "champions" of the world to him. Sadly, the mortals have problems of their own, as they struggling to rebuild their lands after the Fourth war. It is then decided that Azeroth will use her vast powers to help the mortal populations who will in turn help her. By doing so, our world will learn about us as much as we learn from her. And she will (if there's still need for it at this fucking point) question our motives for war and conflicts.

    Rebuild and Revamp
    Here, the revamp of the old world will be gradually brought by the story, as players help the striving nations to rebuild or defend their realms. For the Alliance it will be about taking back old lost kingdoms while the Horde will struggle to secure neighbouring territories.

    -Gilneas and Lordaeron
    With the end of the Fourth war, the Alliance can now claim Gilneas and Lordaeron. The gilneans will welcome the displaced populations of night elves into their lands and thus the realm will come back as a prime example of human, worgen and elf cohabitation. Gilneas-city will be the starting point of this adventure, as quests lead you to the literal growth of new settlements in the land while a new Wolf Cult emerges and threatens to throw away all efforts. World quests will involve gathering resources and fending off old foes (remaining forsaken forces, ogres and feral worgen). The story shall then conclude with the birth of a new world tree in the middle of the Black Forest, with the blessing of Azeroth.

    In Lordaeron, the blessings of Azeroth will help cleanse the lands of the blight and the war devastations. Players will fight against remaining Sylvanas loyal forces and the scarlet crusade in a presumptuous attempt to bring them back to the Alliance. Calia will be here to convince the remaining Forsaken who are not hostile that they can still have a place in Lordaeron, if they agree to share it with the livings. With their help, the Alliance will rebuild the capital of Lordaeron and the neighbouring cities.

    During these two adventures, Azeroth will learn how different perspectives can lead to beautiful cooperation, but that sometimes the failure to make compromise or the lust for power can lead to betrayal.

    -Gnomeregan and Khaz Modan
    As the gnomes and mechagnomes brought more forces and built more facilities around Gnomeregan to salvage the city, they realised that they were actually building a new city on top of the lost one. You will now have to help them bring this New-Gnomeregan to its maximum potential, by solving the multiple problems and incidents provoked by the gnomes experiments. Thus, when the gnomes are done, surely they can put all their intellect and technology into the aid of Azeroth. But a new separatist movement emerges, one that did not forget the original goal of retaking the capital. New-Gnomeregan ? More like Gnomere-gone.

    Slowly but steadily, the dwarves in the Loch Modan are rebuilding the dam and putting an end to the troggs infestations started by the Cataclysm. As you explore tunnels and caves all the way to the Badlands and with the help of Azeroth, the Explorers League will test new ways to deal with their subterranean enemies. Some of these solutions include turning them back to stone or turning them into fully fledged dwarves.

    -The Barrens and Azshara
    While the Bilgewater cartel is under new management, projects are blooming (and booming) in Azshara. Gallywix palace is being turned into a high-tech observatory and his big rock head has been left for the low-life goblins to mock and desecrate. Goblin ingenuity is their strength, but also their enemy and you'll have plenty of failed experiments, mad scientists and con artists to fend off, while you try to focus the efforts of Gazleu's laboratory on helping our newborn Titan.

    In the Barrens, the azerite has given a second breath to threats that were thought contained. The blessings of Azeroth will come in handy, but as they fight against old savage foes (hurans, harpies, centaurs) and new ones (botani and saberon) it will come with conditions. Questioning the Horde's brutish ways, Azeroth will ask that they find more benevolent ways to halt pacify their enemies. This adventure will end up with Aggamaggan and Aviana getting blessed by Azeroth and reconnecting with their mortal heirs, in order to tame their feral instincts.

    -Ashenvale and North Kalimdor
    As they return to Ashenvale, the Horde will have a hard time convincing the remaining night elves that peace is due and that they won't crush their homes. The Horde also needs wood, so they don't know how to convince themselves that this treaty will last. But thanks to the great powers of Azeroth, pools of life will appear in different parts of the woods and it will be up to the Horde to replenish the lands they ransacked for so long. Felwood will finally heal and the tauren will be the best ambassador to the forces of Nature, leading the restoration of the forest all the way up to Hyjal where peace between the factions will be strengthen.

    First raid : Undermine's Powerload
    After Gazleu's laboratory and New-Gnomeregan's facilities are fully functional, Gnomes and Goblins try to bring their powers and intellect together to help Azeroth, in an ambitious attempt to reproduce the network of Titans constructions. But for this to work, they need a focus point closer to the Maelstrom where the Titan is stuck.

    Undermine is the chosen location. There, Horde and Alliance will have to fight against old foes like the Venture Co. or Gallywix to access the biggest of Undermine power source : the Kaja-mines. They will then have to connect this power to Undermine's most sophisticated laboratories, where the maddest of goblin scientists lead doomsday experiments every day. And only then, after they have connected their own facilities to these laboratories can they start pointing all high-tech instruments on the Maelstrom and Azeroth, in order to understand what's gone wrong with her arrival. Anomalies will ensue, though nobody can predict what they will be made of...

    10.1 Elemental Onslaught : Thanks to the events of Undermine, gnomes and goblins discovered that what was disturbing Azeroth was the elemental turmoil that started with their lack of Spirit energy and the troubled history of Azeroth. In distress, Azeroth opened the elemental prison, provoking a massive surge elemental forces all around the world. Now the people of Azeroth have to deal with it.

    -In Desolace the Horde came to deal with the centaur situation, only to find the biggest surge of earth elemental, coming to bury the now verdant land.

    -In the Burning Steppes and the Searing Gorge, the dark iron will deal with the fire elemental.

    -Silvermoon and Draenei Isles will finally step out of their phases, after being targeted by air elementals and water elementals.

    10.2 Rebirth of the Dragons : This patch will focus on Grim Batol in the Wetlands, and an actual new zone with the Dragon Isles. Story will be about the Rebirth of the Dragonflights and a Dragon Isle Raid to prevent the return of the Old Gods threat.

    10.3 Strength of a World : Stronger together will be the lesson learned, as the people of Azeroth rally allies that were thought lost. The story will go on the rebirth of the Alterac and Arathi kingdoms, while in the South of Kalimdor, the Horde will rally most of the ogre tribes.

    The last raid will be about helping Azeroth pick up Sargeras sword, fighting off Silithids, ghosts of the deceased and the corruption that is waiting to take on our Titan's mind.

  19. #1339
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    There is. Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to categorize them into a class' spec.
    Go play something like Assassin Creed: Black Flag, for example. Or watch Pirates of the Carribean. You'd get some notion...
    You need to broaden your horizon on that topic. We haven't categorised them into a class' spec; Blizzard just made a spec in a way that feels piratey. The whole point here is that you could do that to pretty much any class you want.

  20. #1340
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    An attack we know she survives. They specificially noted that they added her raising her hand to it to show she's still alive.

    Meanwhile, the Forsworn have already lost not one, but two leaders in a row in a very short time.
    Sure.. Nice fanfic there.

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