1. #15041
    What if the next expansion has us go into the protolands.

    The 5 new zones are the remaining 5 zereths

  2. #15042
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I just don't even at this point. Not worth arguing with people who just want to shit on companies "Cause they deserve it."




    Maybe something playable may happen in the last part of 2021 but it will go into 2022.
    Looking through your post history its 99.9% you shitting on the people that are shitting on WoW. How do you consider it not worth if its literally all you do? Your post history proves so you cant even deny it. How is shitting on shitters "better" than shitting on Blizzard? What is the difference?

  3. #15043
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeJuice View Post
    I don't play the game anymore. I just enjoy shitting on Blizzard because they deserve it. This community is to discuss WoW not just circle-J it, so learn to deal with me and people who share my views. I've said it 100x to people like you that if you enjoy the game so much then why are you here instead of playing it? I've been coming to MMO champ since like WOTLK but I just made an account this year, because I don't play anymore. When I did play, I didn't give a single F what people on the forums were saying, and honestly didn't even read these. I just came here for the news.
    You do realize what you just said can be fully 180° at you?

    This community is to discuss WoW not just shit on it.

    Learn to deal with people who like playing the game.

    If you hate the game so much then why are you here instead of playing something else?

    etc.

    Can't people look critically at what they are typing nowadays?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  4. #15044
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeJuice View Post
    Well they planned on it so you just enforced the point everyone is making. The only reason it was delayed is because FF was delayed. Now the question is are they more desperate to keep up their charade of confidence in their product or are they desperate to keep you from discovering better games?
    Or, get this -- Blizzard doesn't give a single fuck about the timing of their PTR and you're the one pulling some weird fucking narrative where they're scared of the release date for another video game out of thin air.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
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  5. #15045
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    You do realize what you just said can be fully 180° at you?

    This community is to discuss WoW not just shit on it.

    Learn to deal with people who like playing the game.

    If you hate the game so much then why are you here instead of playing something else?

    etc.

    Can't people look critically at what they are typing nowadays?
    I didn't tell him to go away I just attacked his argument. So no it can't be uno'd back to me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Or, get this -- Blizzard doesn't give a single fuck about the timing of their PTR and you're the one pulling some weird fucking narrative where they're scared of the release date for another video game out of thin air.
    Ok we'll see then.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeJuice View Post
    I'm just going to throw out a wild guess here, completely random, just of the top of my head, that the PTR was delayed to somewhere around Dec 7th, for no particular reason whatsoever. Just totally random.
    I said this 2 weeks ago for reference.

  6. #15046
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeJuice View Post
    so learn to deal with me and people who share my views.
    You literally just admitted that your sole reason for being here is to throw shit at Blizzard, despite the fact that you have no active interest in their product or the company itself anymore, your views hold no value and are not worth discussing.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2021-11-30 at 05:23 PM.

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  7. #15047
    I hope FF will be delayed again for a month, this great trolling

  8. #15048
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeJuice View Post
    I didn't tell him to go away I just attacked his argument. So no it can't be uno'd back to me.
    Eh, no. For you discussing the game is not "circle jerking" over it, yet you have no probs with the opposite - shitting on it. You tell others to deal with you and your views, yet you have shown problems with dealing with theirs. And you ask why people, who love the game, are here instead of playing, yet you (who hate it) is also here, instead of doing something else. This is such an obvious hypocrisy I am really surprised you didn't notice it yourself. Or maybe you did.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-11-30 at 05:24 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  9. #15049
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Dungeons and raid themselves had "major flaws" at the outset. They were given the time and attention to grow as features, though. Unfortunately, they are the prime content to which all other forms are now secondary, and those "secondary" systems, which were the primary source of entertainment for many, are no longer receiving development unto themselves. And heaven forbid any of them actually make the leap from one expansion into the next!

    Also, many of the flaws you point out, I would argue, are simply matters of preference rather than actual integral flaws. Unfortunately, the current team has a very narrow view of what a "WoW player" is and, if content doesn't fit into that box, they force it in. Warfronts are a prime example. I love the idea of being a cog in a machine. That isn't going to appeal to everyone. But in the attempt to make it appeal to everyone, they kneecapped the potential of the content. The AI is boring and prescriptive. There is a "solution" to the Warfronts that isn't present in any RTS worth its salt. That solution needs to be there to make it palatable to the masses (even if they'd rather be doing anything else), but it also makes it so that Warfronts do not appeal to who should be their core audience of RTS enthusiasts.

    In short, all of these forms of "secondary" content are flawed. But they are flawed by design, not in concept.
    I feel like Warfronts were a decent idea, but without a great way to follow through with them. Part of what works with RTS games is that you are doing so much in the entire area that you don't have to worry as much about long build/capture times. I feel like they might've been partially salvageable with more going on during those down times...which IMO is why Heroic Warfronts at least felt a bit better for a time. But even with that, they would have to put so much to do into Warfronts that by the end it wouldn't feel like an RTS anyhow, which means that you would essentially be turning that concept into a Frankenstein of itself.

    Even if you made them work, the question is would it feel like World of Warcraft does or like something else. Warfronts, Torghast, Covenants...those don't feel like WoW to me even though they are part of the game now. I'd rather see the team focus on making a game that feels like World of Warcraft initially was rather than the weird side pieces that we've had recently. Dungeons, Raids, zones to explore...stuff that we all know & love rather than having to grind up anima to build up a sanctum while FOMO-watching world quests for my conduit so I can have the equipment needed just to do the raiding I came here to do in the first place. And when I hear something is going to be "innovative" & "ambitious", I'm hearing that the team is going to be spending a lot of time making something that may well not feel like WoW when it has been created. Hence why I want less ambitious for 10.0.

  10. #15050
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Eh, no. For you discussing the game is not "circle jerking" over it, yet you have no probs with the opposite - shitting on it. You tell others to deal with you and your views, yet you have shown problems with dealing with theirs. And you ask why people, who love the game, are here instead of playing, yet you (who hate it) is also here, instead of doing something else. This is such an obvious hypocrisy I am really surprised you didn't notice it yourself. Or maybe you did.
    I haven't shown any problems with dealing with anything? I literally just attack arguments that are wrong. As for whatever else you're saying, I mean its kind of a no brainer. If you hate something you don't do it. If you love something you do it. Come on.. These are weak points that you're really reaching for.

  11. #15051
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeJuice View Post
    I don't play the game anymore. I just enjoy shitting on Blizzard because they deserve it. This community is to discuss WoW not just circle-J it, so learn to deal with me and people who share my views. I've said it 100x to people like you that if you enjoy the game so much then why are you here instead of playing it? I've been coming to MMO champ since like WOTLK but I just made an account this year, because I don't play anymore. When I did play, I didn't give a single F what people on the forums were saying, and honestly didn't even read these. I just came here for the news.
    You must be fun at parties.

  12. #15052
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    You literally just admitted that your sole reason for being here is to throw shit at Blizzard, despite the fact that you have no active interest in their product or the company itself anymore, your views hold no value and are not worth discussing.
    I never said it was my sole reason, although I do like shitting on them. I comment in other forums they're just not as active so theres no point. My points have absolute value. I'm not making shit up like other people. I'm right about 99% of what I say and that bothers people trying to defend Blizzard. Its just their hail mary attempt to get me to leave so they can go back to spreading lies and trolling. I get it. I'm not going anywhere though, so deal with it.

  13. #15053
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeJuice View Post
    I haven't shown any problems with dealing with anything? I literally just attack arguments that are wrong. As for whatever else you're saying, I mean its kind of a no brainer. If you hate something you don't do it. If you love something you do it. Come on.. These are weak points that you're really reaching for.
    Ye, and then you come to the forum devoted to the thing you hate and you shit on it. Very healthy.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  14. #15054
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Because the community is so shit. They won't talk to people unless they have something to say, which outside of 9.1.5 they don't.

    After BFA its unlikely they will ever talk to the community like they used to ever again.
    Well let's see how far that gets them.

    By this point everyone figured out two things, that the developers treat players like shit that sends them money. And that being treated as such is not the standard. I don't much like using Final Fantasy as an example given I don't like that game, but I respect how the developers treated that game and it's player base and from what I can tell, their comeback has been really well received.

    On the other hand Blizzard's current state is very similar to Bioware's. Where the corporate bullshit totally wrecked their good name. In fact right now I wouldn't even call Blizzard, still Blizzard but rather Activision.

    Anyway, whatever Activision decides to do next will be the move that redeems or breaks them and if they continue to treat players like shit, I don't think redemption will be possible.

  15. #15055
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ye, and then you come to the forum devoted to the thing you hate and you shit on it. Very healthy.
    Venting is actually proven to be healthy but nice try. Its crazy all this hate you're throwing at me for just proving arguments wrong but you'll still defend Blizzard who has done WAY worse to people. I should be considered a holy saint compared to Blizzard, why aren't you defending me?

  16. #15056
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ye, and then you come to the forum devoted to the thing you hate and you shit on it. Very healthy.
    Best thing to do is ignore.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  17. #15057
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeJuice View Post
    Venting is actually proven to be healthy but nice try. Its crazy all this hate you're throwing at me for just proving arguments wrong but you'll still defend Blizzard who has done WAY worse to people. I should be considered a holy saint compared to Blizzard, why aren't you defending me?
    Except I am not defending them. Classic binary way of thinking and playing the victim - if you don't shit on Blizz and instead see positive aspects of the game, you are a circle-jerking fanboy.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-11-30 at 06:04 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  18. #15058
    Stood in the Fire Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    I mean extra communication at this point is not for the benefit of the community like it should've been but for PR purposes. They refuse to do so and instead continue the cold approach by introducing the Council that is going to be a hotbed for abuse and Kotaku articles.

    Obviously people will just instantly throw up the "Death threat" joker card to basically state that there's no way we can solve the issue and so it is the same song and dance about said issue till the end of time.
    "The only thing you got in this world is what you can sell. and the funny thing is that you're a game developer, and you don't know that."
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    I do not Reply to Quotes that try to derail threads or put the onus on me.

  19. #15059
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Except I am not defending them. Classic binary way of thinking and playing the victim - if you don't shit on Blizz and see positive aspects of the game, you are a circle-jerking fanboy.
    You are defending them. Its literally the definition right? I'm attacking Blizzard, you're attacking me. Thats defending. And I'm not playing a victim, I just asked a very fair and reasonable question, which of course you didn't answer.

  20. #15060
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    I feel like Warfronts were a decent idea, but without a great way to follow through with them. Part of what works with RTS games is that you are doing so much in the entire area that you don't have to worry as much about long build/capture times. I feel like they might've been partially salvageable with more going on during those down times...which IMO is why Heroic Warfronts at least felt a bit better for a time. But even with that, they would have to put so much to do into Warfronts that by the end it wouldn't feel like an RTS anyhow, which means that you would essentially be turning that concept into a Frankenstein of itself.

    Even if you made them work, the question is would it feel like World of Warcraft does or like something else. Warfronts, Torghast, Covenants...those don't feel like WoW to me even though they are part of the game now. I'd rather see the team focus on making a game that feels like World of Warcraft initially was rather than the weird side pieces that we've had recently. Dungeons, Raids, zones to explore...stuff that we all know & love rather than having to grind up anima to build up a sanctum while FOMO-watching world quests for my conduit so I can have the equipment needed just to do the raiding I came here to do in the first place. And when I hear something is going to be "innovative" & "ambitious", I'm hearing that the team is going to be spending a lot of time making something that may well not feel like WoW when it has been created. Hence why I want less ambitious for 10.0.
    I see what you're saying. Raids and dungeons are the bread and butter. But they aren't exciting. They're a strong hook, but Blizzard needs to be casting more lines, so to speak. I have friends and family that had played for years without touching them. What did they do? God knows, not I. But the game had something that it has long since lost. I want features that draw in those lapsed players. Not out of obligation to slap on "Ambitious" and "Innovative" stickers on recycled or rehashed content for the marketing team, but features that are truly ambitious and innovative and supported. At the very least, shake up the formula that Legion established.

    And again... they need to be willing to implement content that not all players will enjoy and support it thereafter, like they did for pet battles. They tried and failed to bring the Mage Tower concept forward because they messed with what made it special: it was a static challenge that wasn't tied into player power rewards. They tried to make a specific type of gameplay appeal to everyone and kneecapped themselves. Their inclination to make everything scale with the player and tie into the itemization system is such a huge crutch. Add systems that certain players like, carry that forward, and design more systems that appeal to other specific audiences.

    Even if they play it safe with 10.0, fewer systems should be tied into player power. Because it turns everything into a mechanical obligation rather than immersive exploration when the mood takes you.

    Edit: To add, I would argue that both BfA and SL took it extremely safe. They juggled a few things from Legion and repackaged them, but by and large, all they did was improve on everything that Legion did (sans story). Raids are better. Dungeons are better. The "borrowed systems" are better. Itemization is better. On paper. The game needs to to do more than that.
    Last edited by draugril; 2021-11-30 at 06:50 PM.

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