Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Revamp Man]

Is it bad I just want MoP with the current systems of m+ and mythic raiding?

I mean let’s say 5,10,15 gets you the old CM rewards

Dailies replaced by emissaries and WQ

Not even that specific story but you have an expansion kick off with one plot and slowly the zones are linked if even by just a bit and the raids are attached to them and they are attached to each other
Vaults was connected to ToT
HoF was connected to ToES
Siege had a slow work up through multiple quest lines and it wasn’t some garbage twist that was actually super obvious

Give me my damn skill capped WW with fun utility that was 100% underestimated

Give me a story where a giant bug boss or even an old god makes sense

[Sondrelk]

The only reason there was an Hour of Twilight in the form they prevented is because Deathwing was empowered. If Neltharion wasn't made Earthwarder the Old Gods inhabiting the earth wouldn't be able to whisper to him and even if they could because he really happened to like sitting in caves or whatever, a regular proto-drake, however exceptional would neither be impactful nor even have the lifespan to matter. The Aspects were empowered to prevent a problem that only arose because the Aspects are empowered. Tyr is a moron and Odyn was right.

This is notwithstanding that not only was this not the Hour of Twilight, nor was what we saw in the Endtime dungeon (also caused by empowering Deathwing, by the by) that'd probably be the vision of Ny'alotha by N'zoth or that this power of precognition never came up before or since. Or that the Hour of Twilight was a term that didn't exist until Cho'gall wrote it in the Twilight Canticle, something he did on another planet. Anyway, enough about how Cata's main story was crap, back to how SL's main story is crap.



While plausible, the most frustrating element of this expansion is how much it misses virtually every chance to go somewhere with the seeds it plants. Where something like BFA's Mists 2.0 premise was conceptually poor from start to finish in what it tried to accomplish and things like the Cata narrative with Thrall I bitched about was plainly an incoherent afterthought compared to the exponentially better executed revamp stories, SL is a different beast. It plays with big, classic sci-fi/fantasy ideas, teases them and then completely squanders them, backtracking its concepts to go with the most rote route possible or as with the Arbiter being turned off or the Jailer's exile just sort of leaves these things hanging in the hopes no one will notice.

Under the reading of the Blue Man as being upset about determinism and taking a comic book nihilist approach where the only true choice is the one that eliminates everything his interactions become more interesting. It turns him reacting to Sylvanas shooting him with a 'pity' as being genuine, with the chains of mortality referenced being the impression that any choice made has inherent meaning when all of it is predetermined. And the reason why he drags Anduin along for him to witness his victory, despite the fact that he's a sockpuppet is because to him whether someone is mind-controlled or not makes no difference, since the illusion of choice is a deterministic product anyway.

Setting aside how appropriate such a character is for this game in the first place, it's moot because the staff lack both the writing chops or even the intention to properly go with this angle, instead flirting with the ideas and then leaving them hanging. See how they preemptively cut out any chance of the Eternal Ones dealing with how they're rote models come out of an assembly line by cutting them out of the plot while the bland as dishwater Azeroth cast we carry with us like a malignant tumor have no reaction to being in what's basically a cosmic photoshop application.

Still, I cannot remember the aspect prophecy ever being directly mentioned ad being about defeating Deathwing, rather just being about preventing the return of the old gods, which again, just happened to include Deathwing.

It was a dumb decision to place Deathwing so close to the Old God's, but I don't think this is the actual intention behind the prophecy to stop the Hour of Twilight.


And yeah, the Zovaal being angry at his predetermined villainy would be interesting, though I heavily agree that it isn't exactly the kind of story WoW can handle, or at least not this rushed.
It might have worked better if this was built up over a long period of time, but as it stands it will probably be little more than a neat twist that cheapens the overall story.

I am willing to wait until we in know for sure what the deal with the prototype pantheon is though. Worst case it really does just end up being a random boss in the raid, but it might get some buildup, the final raids do tend to at least have more buildup to individual bosses than the rest.

[Nyel]

Is it bad I just want MoP with the current systems of m+ and mythic raiding?

Not at all, I think most players remember MoP fondly.

I didn't appreciate MoP that much back then, but now I think it has been the last really great expansion. While Legion was outstanding, MoP just had some magic to it which Legion lacked. I think the entire cosmic space stuff is what threw me off in Legion later on. MoP was reasonably grounded and still made sense. And wow, that expansion was just very, very good.

[Alanar]

Not at all, I think most players remember MoP fondly.

I didn't appreciate MoP that much back then, but now I think it has been the last really great expansion. While Legion was outstanding, MoP just had some magic to it which Legion lacked. I think the entire cosmic space stuff is what threw me off in Legion later on. MoP was reasonably grounded and still made sense. And wow, that expansion was just very, very good.

Mop was just interesting, I think it was a combination of things that made it what people remember. The fact that it was sold as a serene land and grounded. People hated that idea, but turned out to be a very diverse expansion that still managed to link dungeons, raids to current story, which We havent seen much in a good way.

New talent tree that gave alot of new options and the setup was new. Challange mode was new and refreshing. Sure mop had something there that was truly helping to feel connected and stay grounded at the same time.

I dont want to say this is another example of things were new so that is why it was fun, but partly it is ofc.

Legion as I am reading gets the same praise for no reason what so ever. Legion introduced borrowed power which was fun and enganging first time you did it, second and third time it isnt. Because it was new and fresh.

The obvious thing is, we like the expansion that added new things, but every other expansion and did the same under a differnt skin gets hate.

How many times do we have to hear wrath, mop, legion was good?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I am willing to wait until we in know for sure what the deal with the prototype pantheon is though. Worst case it really does just end up being a random boss in the raid, but it might get some buildup, the final raids do tend to at least have more buildup to individual bosses than the rest.

It could be silly to, combinations of each eternal one instead of just prototype ones. a Jailer+Primus combo and so on.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

"Once a fatescribe entrusted with Korthia’s countless secrets, the Mawsworn seized Roh-Kalo and bound him to the Jailer’s will. With Torghast’s power at his disposal, Roh-Kalo seeks to author a new fate for the Shadowlands." - Roh-Kalo's Dungeon Journal entry.

Did he succeed or not?

[Nyel]

"Once a fatescribe entrusted with Korthia’s countless secrets, the Mawsworn seized Roh-Kalo and bound him to the Jailer’s will. With Torghast’s power at his disposal, Roh-Kalo seeks to author a new fate for the Shadowlands." - Roh-Kalo's Dungeon Journal entry.

Did he succeed or not?

Shadowlands is going to end with patch 9.2.

As it is written so it shall be done. I think he did succeed.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Again, Zovaal wouldn't go to Zereth Mortis if Roh-Kalo didn't succeed in changing the Prophecy. Especially if the Waystone Activation in the Intro was his cue that something was amiss and he learned about the Maw Walkers and the Prophecy of the Fate of the Shadowlands.

He would have zero reasons to go to Zereth Mortis until the Prophecy has changed in his favor.

[Revamp Man]

Not at all, I think most players remember MoP fondly.

I didn't appreciate MoP that much back then, but now I think it has been the last really great expansion. While Legion was outstanding, MoP just had some magic to it which Legion lacked. I think the entire cosmic space stuff is what threw me off in Legion later on. MoP was reasonably grounded and still made sense. And wow, that expansion was just very, very good.

The grinding hurt it but I love it

[shoc]

"Once a fatescribe entrusted with Korthia’s countless secrets, the Mawsworn seized Roh-Kalo and bound him to the Jailer’s will. With Torghast’s power at his disposal, Roh-Kalo seeks to author a new fate for the Shadowlands." - Roh-Kalo's Dungeon Journal entry.

Did he succeed or not?

Oh my god they are going to overwrite reality with fan fiction for real.

[Varx]

So the zovaal fight makes it look like Azeroth is the center of the universe, as in all of reality is powered and shaped with her as the power source.

Gives more creadbility to the whole, zereth = Azeroth theory.

Also makes sense why we were able to activate the first one keystones in the maw and korthia.

Wonder how this will tie into the dragon isles for 10.0. there's probably a super Uber titan facility there.


Maybe that's where uldorus is? And is where we'll meet Azeroth herself?

Just like how Antorus held Argus. Perhaps Uldorus holds Azeroth .

For those that don't know, Uldorus was one of the titan facilities that the maiden in the heart chamber started listing when it was malfunctioning.

[AngerFork]

Not at all, I think most players remember MoP fondly.

I didn't appreciate MoP that much back then, but now I think it has been the last really great expansion. While Legion was outstanding, MoP just had some magic to it which Legion lacked. I think the entire cosmic space stuff is what threw me off in Legion later on. MoP was reasonably grounded and still made sense. And wow, that expansion was just very, very good.

I loved pretty much everything about MoP...except the dailies. Man alive, those dailies were hideous. It made the expansion feel a ton more like daily chores rather than giving time for things to do, then Timeless Isle removed the daily grind for needing to be at your computer with NPCScan up to hope you can get a tag on Huolon to do your hourly mount try.

Definitely not nearly as much of a chores feeling as today, but I was not a fan of the pre-raid endgame at that point.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Anyways just as a self-own for later this week.

If Zovaal's "Never known defeat" doesn't change next PTR build then it could be a hint towards the Prophecy having changed and it was intentional to rile up those who don't get it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Titanforging was still in the game so therefore MoP was not nearly as clean as haters think. Like can we not whitewash the past.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Titanforging was still in the game so therefore MoP was not nearly as clean as haters think. Like can we not whitewash the past.

I mean, Thunderforging was not a problem. Having RNG Upgrade Levels but still having a deterministic way to obtain the Upgrade Levels is not a problematic system and was the best solution both from a Game Designer and Player Perspective but Blizzard couldn't stop since they always love iterating to death any concept and hence Titanforging was born where there was no determinism available for players to gain Titanforged gear which was really the root problem that it made gearing pointless because RNG could give someone better gear than you and you could do nothing about it.

[Raetary]

Titanforging was still in the game so therefore MoP was not nearly as clean as haters think. Like can we not whitewash the past.

Titanforging was not a thing till Legion came out.

And the +6 ilvl bonus of Thunder- and Warforging was hardly a problem.

[Hugnomo]

I really feel like the Jailer needs to succeed in doing something bombastic. Re writing reality, killing Azeroth, etc. Something that brings about some radical change and takes us into an exciting new step in 10.0. They can't keep threatening us with cool stuff only for us to win, in the same boring way as always. Putting these world altering cool ideas in the trash.
And hey, if the parallels to Thanos keep happening, we need our Infinity War moment right? Plus with how much a Realm Reborn did for FFXIV, it's in character for Blizzard to take good ideas from other games.
I'm not saying it would be to the same extent, but the Blizzard spin on it. I'd like that. Bring us back to a fresh, beautiful, revamped Azeroth.

[Accendor]

Is it bad I just want MoP with the current systems of m+ and mythic raiding?

I mean let’s say 5,10,15 gets you the old CM rewards

Dailies replaced by emissaries and WQ

Not even that specific story but you have an expansion kick off with one plot and slowly the zones are linked if even by just a bit and the raids are attached to them and they are attached to each other
Vaults was connected to ToT
HoF was connected to ToES
Siege had a slow work up through multiple quest lines and it wasn’t some garbage twist that was actually super obvious

Give me my damn skill capped WW with fun utility that was 100% underestimated

Give me a story where a giant bug boss or even an old god makes sense

Yes, that is bad, because the MoP daily system was miles ahead of what we have now. Replacing it with the terrible wq system would not do it justice at all.

- - - Updated - - -

I really feel like the Jailer needs to succeed in doing something bombastic. Re writing reality, killing Azeroth, etc. Something that brings about some radical change and takes us into an exciting new step in 10.0. They can't keep threatening us with cool stuff only for us to win, in the same boring way as always. Putting these world altering cool ideas in the trash.
And hey, if the parallels to Thanos keep happening, we need our Infinity War moment right? Plus with how much a Realm Reborn did for FFXIV, it's in character for Blizzard to take good ideas from other games.
I'm not saying it would be to the same extent, but the Blizzard spin on it. I'd like that. Bring us back to a fresh, beautiful, revamped Azeroth.

Nothing big will change with 10.0, be prepared for it.

[Hugnomo]

Yes, that is bad, because the MoP daily system was miles ahead of what we have now. Replacing it with the terrible wq system would not do it justice at all.

- - - Updated - - -



Nothing big will change with 10.0, be prepared for it.

I know I shouldn't expect so much, but I'm not holding my breath either. It's kind of a "hope for the best, be prepared for the worst" scenario for me.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yes, that is bad, because the MoP daily system was miles ahead of what we have now. Replacing it with the terrible wq system would not do it justice at all.

It isn't that much different. The world quest system isn't bad, just a small amount of world content.

I know I shouldn't expect so much, but I'm not holding my breath either. It's kind of a "hope for the best, be prepared for the worst" scenario for me.

Why? There's no evidence for "Nothing groundbreaking." Its just cynicism cause reasons. Keep in mind if people really want a system with no power related rewards the cypher of the first ones should do well. Emphasis on should.