Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[cocomen2]

No, I don't think people want cosmic baddies for a while, given the SL reception.

Okay, but after demigods,titans,old god,jailer and now "You can go underground and beat a shit out of Goblins, oh mighty champpion be sure aware of them maybe you need help of Goblin slayer? don't go alone please"

If this not comedy than some kind depressing shit.

[Sondrelk]

Okay, but after demigods,titans,old god,jailer and now "You can go underground and beat a shit out of Goblins, oh mighty champpion be sure aware of them maybe you need help of Goblin slayer? don't go alone please"

If this not comedy than some kind depressing shit.

After Legion it wasn't particularly difficult to accept that we went straight from fighting gods in space to having punch-up with pirates.

[cocomen2]

After Legion it wasn't particularly difficult to accept that we went straight from fighting gods in space to having punch-up with pirates.

I still have hope on World Revamp, lets say Jailer presses that big button to reshape and remade world in his image on his final breath and we like "Yeah bi*ch we killed him" but still he made his dream come true even if he not gonna be there to witness it.
Something like dream of Hades to leave underworld, he knows that its impossible but does everything to atleast try for it.

[Makabreska]

Okay, but after demigods,titans,old god,jailer and now "You can go underground and beat a shit out of Goblins, oh mighty champpion be sure aware of them maybe you need help of Goblin slayer? don't go alone please"

If this not comedy than some kind depressing shit.

But it happens all the time. After we defeat Big Bad, then we proceed to fight small fries in dungeons and during questing when next xpac hits. Freehold and Sky Captain on oversized parrot right after Argus is best example.

[Villager720]

But it happens all the time. After we defeat Big Bad, then we proceed to fight small fries in dungeons and during questing when next xpac hits. Freehold and Sky Captain on oversized parrot right after Argus is best example.

Interestingly, the borrowed power systems actually gave us a decent excuse for our power drops the last two expansions.
The first thing established in Legion was that we’re getting our asses kicked and we need better fire power to stand a chance : enter the artifact weapons. We then proceed to spend the rest of the expansion empowering and expanding their capacities to keep dealing with even greater threats, only to have to sacrifice them at the end. Same goes with the Heart of Azeroth, but instead we went somewhere that mitigated its power.
I imagine the same will occur with our Soulbinds in Shadowlands.

[huth]

Interestingly, the borrowed power systems actually gave us a decent excuse for our power drops the last two expansions.
The first thing established in Legion was that we’re getting our asses kicked and we need better fire power to stand a chance : enter the artifact weapons. We then proceed to spend the rest of the expansion empowering and expanding their capacities to keep dealing with even greater threats, only to have to sacrifice them at the end. Same goes with the Heart of Azeroth, but instead we went somewhere that mitigated its power.
I imagine the same will occur with our Soulbinds in Shadowlands.

The real question is how they explain not having the Heart in 10.0. I suppose it might be something like Zovaal weakened her to much.

[Villager720]

The real question is how they explain not having the Heart in 10.0. I suppose it might be something like Zovaal weakened her to much.

Honestly think they’ll have forgotten it and not bother to mention/explain but I suppose we’ll have to wait and see.

[Sondrelk]

Honestly think they’ll have forgotten it and not bother to mention/explain but I suppose we’ll have to wait and see.

Could be explained by us still having it, just not needing to have it equipped to benefit.
We start and Magni or someone else states that we are either getting empowered by Azeroth if we don't have the heart, or that we still have the heart to empower us if we do.

The biggest leap in that regards has always been the green questing gear we replace old god infused skin or similar with.
It's easy to explain that the heart of Azeroth still works if it's in our pockets, not so much to explain why a ragged shirt we get from miners is better than heirlooms from Quel'thalas for instance.

[Teriz]

Okay, but after demigods,titans,old god,jailer and now "You can go underground and beat a shit out of Goblins, oh mighty champpion be sure aware of them maybe you need help of Goblin slayer? don't go alone please"

If this not comedy than some kind depressing shit.

Beating up Goblins in an underground continent sounds a lot more reasonable in a fantasy game than beating literal gods in another dimension. Ion said that future WoW content will be traditional and terrestrial. Going back to good old fashioned Warcraft lore with traditional adversaries fits that definition like a glove.

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But it happens all the time. After we defeat Big Bad, then we proceed to fight small fries in dungeons and during questing when next xpac hits. Freehold and Sky Captain on oversized parrot right after Argus is best example.

Ngl, Kul'tiras and Zandalar were breaths of fresh air after spending several months on Argus.

[Hardwing]

Beating up Goblins in an underground continent sounds a lot more reasonable in a fantasy game than beating literal gods in another dimension. Ion said that future WoW content will be traditional and terrestrial. Going back to good old fashioned Warcraft lore with traditional adversaries fits that definition like a glove.

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Ngl, Kul'tiras and Zandalar were breaths of fresh air after spending several months on Argus.

Agree on all of it!

A Steampunk Metropolis filled with cutthroats and buisnessmen as they did in part with Gadgetzan in lore sounds awesome as does an underground zone if done right.

[Lahis]

I'm still crossing my fingers for an expansion where we have to battle Gallywix and trade princes of the Goblin cartels. I know people want some cosmic baddie, but I think it would be great to battle some wacky, zany villains using wild contraptions and tech ala Helix Blackfuse.

I don't think people want any cosmic baddies. It is just that Blizzard is incapable of doing expansion without one.

Your Goblin Cartel expansion will end up with us killing the Grandmother of Light or something.

[Yarathir]

Oversimplifying villains isn't really an argument.

I don't really think it's possible to oversimplify the Jailer.

It'd be like multiplying 0 by 0.

[Teriz]

I don't think people want any cosmic baddies. It is just that Blizzard is incapable of doing expansion without one.

Your Goblin Cartel expansion will end up with us killing the Grandmother of Light or something.

I'd be fine with a powered up baddie, like Garrosh in SoO. I can somewhat buy an Orc, Human, Elf, or Goblin that gets possessed by evil powers. I just think when we start taking down titans and gods on other planets, we've jumped the shark. I've seen posters clamoring for us to go into the Void and take down the Voidlords, the ones who supposedly created the old gods.

I think we need a break.

[Makabreska]

I don't think people want any cosmic baddies. It is just that Blizzard is incapable of doing expansion without one.

Your Goblin Cartel expansion will end up with us killing the Grandmother of Light or something.

Yes they are capable. We had Garrosh right after Deathwing trying to literally destroy Azeroth. BfA with N'zoth also de-escalated stuff after Legion. It's just their long term story plan (that started after MoP) made them fell into constant threat increase trap. But that story is now over.

[Sondrelk]

Yes they are capable. We had Garrosh right after Deathwing trying to literally destroy Azeroth. BfA with N'zoth also de-escalated stuff after Legion. It's just their long term story plan (that started after MoP) made them fell into constant threat increase trap. But that story is now over.

It's a problem that is inherent to WoW expansions. It's possible to avoid it, but it would require drastically rethinking how they function.

The way expansions are set up means it needs an internal threat curve that builds up to an explosive finale.
Avoiding it would require essentially making small individual patches rather than expansions.

[Alanar]

And that's where the issue lies. The character comes first, and then they do a design around it. The fact that you got those feelings from that design means it's a bad design for the character they were going for. He was never meant to be a morally-grey character, or someone who you have to question whether they are evil or not. He is supposed to be unquestionably evil. He's the villain of the expansion. Just like Arthas was designed to look like a pure evil character, or Sargeras was, or Deathwing was.

Don't get me wrong, the design would have been cool for someone like the Runecarver, someone you don't know much about and you don't know what their full story is.

And let's not act like a lack of motives is exclusive to the Jailer. Why did any of the villains of previous expansions do anything other than "world control, I guess" or "we just wanna destroy the world lol"

It doesnt make sense to me... we as fans see an image of main villain that looks cool and interesting. What we got doesnt look interesting at all and it showed in the response. I mean Arthas looked cool.. jailer never had this feeling.

I dissagree with your view on runecarver.. hes fine as he is. mean.. the concept with the crown, chains, beard and face.. dude concept looked like a juiced up witchking, can you really say blue man is a better concept with a straight face?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's a problem that is inherent to WoW expansions. It's possible to avoid it, but it would require drastically rethinking how they function.

The way expansions are set up means it needs an internal threat curve that builds up to an explosive finale.
Avoiding it would require essentially making small individual patches rather than expansions.

Nah they should keep the expansions. They could take a vanilla approach but that might mean no crazy threats as often.

[Sondrelk]

Nah they should keep the expansions. They could take a vanilla approach but that might mean no crazy threats as often.

Vanilla is the only part where the patches felt like individual mini-campaigns rather than a growing narrative, which isnt really provably better than the expansion approach if themed villains leading up to a grand finale.

And of course, you do at some point need a big ongoing storyline with a finale, otherwise it all becomes a big pile of mush endlessly repeating the villain of the week approach, so even with that you would need to internally differentiate expansions as a whole, which is why I say the problem is the very concept of the WoW expansion.


Really what WoW should have been is a more freeform MMO where sometimes we get a new zone leading to a dungeon or raid, sometimes we get just plot updates, sometimes just combat or instanced content updates, and sometimes we get big ongoing storylines like Legion with themed rewards.

Expecting this is probably pointless though, as I said, it wouldn't just be changing expansions, it would be drastically changing the entire workflow of WoW as a whole, and it wouldn't even necessarily work out at all.

[huth]

Nah they should keep the expansions. They could take a vanilla approach but that might mean no crazy threats as often.

It's not like making patches would actually solve it, either. You need that build to keep people engaged.

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And of course, you do at some point need a big ongoing storyline with a finale, otherwise it all becomes a big pile of mush endlessly repeating the villain of the week approach, so even with that you would need to internally differentiate expansions as a whole, which is why I say the problem is the very concept of the WoW expansion.

But that's contradicting yourself. You still need that buildup, even without any expansions at all. The problem isn't the concept of the expansion, the problem is inherent to the medium. There's no way to avoid it.

[Sondrelk]

It's not like making patches would actually solve it, either. You need that build to keep people engaged.

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But that's contradicting yourself. You still need that buildup, even without any expansions at all. The problem isn't the concept of the expansion, the problem is inherent to the medium. There's no way to avoid it.

That is what I mean though. Ideally WoW would be set up so that we could both have small one-off patches, pure lore patches pushing the plot forwards, as well as bigger stuff like what we would expect from a big expansion.

Currently we only have expansions, which is good for stuff like Legion that starts big and ends explosively, but not so great for smaller stuff that has no business sharing space with other plots, but which nonetheless should get space in the plot.


Again, ideally WoW could have patches where we go to Dun Morogh to talk to Dwarves. Patches where we go to a single dungeon or raids. As well as bigger sets of patches that have us go through the entire big stuff in Legion or SL.
It would require massively restructuring WoW, so it isn't exactly feasible, but it is nonetheless what MMOs should ideally look like.


Imagine for instance if Legion was not an expansion as we know it, but rather individual pieces of buildup like Suramar and the Warden stuff. Then a big double latch containing the most important stuff, like the Broken Shore and Argus.
You would take all the individual pieces of Legion that don't directly deal with the "main" plot and use them for individual stories, then once the time is right make essentially a mini-expansion that counts as that story's finale.

This way you would get all the buildup stuff, but without having to consider fitting all of it onto a larger expansion where it might feel extraneous or otherwise detract from the meat of the story.
It would be very different, and it would probably be less profitable for Blizzard, but I think it would work better as a long-term narrative, and more importantly as a game.