Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[username993720]

Im not ass-pulling anything. Im saying that every random tech NPC or ability doesn’t signify a Tinker.

Did you not point to every single tech thing as a hint for a Tinker class before?

The hero character using actual Tinker abilities in WoW is a far stronger indicator.

Oh. So was Illidan using HotS' Demon Hunter abilities in MoP? Oh right, no. He was dead... i guess that qualifies a transmog set and a glyph as hints instead

Rogues have Fan of Knives. Is there anything in her toolkit that you feel wouldn’t fit in the Rogue class?

That's 1 ability. Hardly "most".
For once, they don't use her Umbra Crescent and don't wear plater armor.
Secondly, they aren't jailers. Hence, why they won't use jailing abilities like Warden's Cage.

Shredders are common throughout the Goblin race.

Suddenly, it's of no importance. Especially when it gets a new look. I like how you change your mind day by day.
Remember Robo-Goblin and how much you kept talking about a mechanical suit?

He certainly is, but he isn’t the Tinker hero from WC3/HotS. Gazlowe is. And yes, I have used Mekkatorque and others as examples of Gnomes and Goblins piloting mechs as something common In Warcraft/WoW.

Common? We haven't seen him in one until Legion. Shredders were not given a proper, updated model until MoP. Don't pretend like it's not a unique part of the Tinker's toolkit.

See above. In BFA we had Gazlowe using Tinker abilities. That’s a big difference from Mekkatorque just piloting a mech suit.

Mekkatorque became an entire Raid boss encouter in BfA, with tech-based abilities. Sounds a lot more prevalent than 2 abilities in an Island expedition scenario.

[Teriz]

Did you not point to every single tech thing as a hint for a Tinker class before?

No.

Oh. So was Illidan using HotS' Demon Hunter abilities in MoP? Oh right, no. He was dead... i guess that qualifies a transmog set and a glyph as hints instead

MoP predates HotS.

In any case, my goal here was to answer a question from a specific poster, not get into a back in forth with you about nitpicky things. Feel free to have the last word here.

[Le Conceptuel]

If I was put in charge of WoW I'd just fire the entire dev team minus the engineering and art crews and get them to work on official hosted player servers and bring out a fully updated, public WoW World Editor. Then just charge for server hosting fees and watch players make custom servers. Most popular servers reach the top of the realm list, only the top 100 servers in population are publicly available on the realm list.

Also, sell assets on the shop for people to use/see on these custom servers. Sell cosmetics only, of course, but sell anything from mounts, pets, armor sets, structures for player housing, various doodads, environment packs, professionally voice acted files, etc.

Guarantee you that option will one day be a serious consideration for them, and will likely be the option that nets them way more profit than managing an old, stale MMO with regular huge expansions and support would be.

Hire me, Bobby.

Place the only people even more incompetent than Blizz devs in charge of game development. Sounds feasible. Another genius idea from Edward Wu.

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Well in Vanilla we fought DKs in Naxx. Two expansions later, we got Death Knights. In WotLK we got a Pandaren Monk pet with a letter from Chen Stormstout. Two expansions later we got Pandaren monks. In MoP we got Warlocks getting an armor set that resembled Illidan, and a Glyph called Glyph of Demon Hunting. Two expansions later we got Demon Hunters.

In BFA we got teams of Goblins and Gnomes in the island expeditions who were using Gazlowe’s tinker abilities from HotS. These abilities were structured like class abilities with level requirements and power progression. No other expedition team had abilities like this. Also such abilities are unheard of among NPCs abilities.

The second expansion after BFA is the next expansion….

I mean, I really want Tinkers too—the idea of playing a Draenic Artificer in particular appeals to me greatly. But you're really clearly on copium here. You know, it's not like you have to look out for clues—Tinkers have always been a very legitimate likelihood, they just haven't found a place for them. You don't need to pretend they're constantly hinting at everything and playing 4d chess. You can just say "hey, this would be a cool class to have!". I mean, if they only added Dark Iron Dwarves and other such subraces ~15 years in, you know, that's not a very bad start for assuming that overdue things may happen. Perhaps they'll just stay in limbo like Ogres, but there's a good possibility we'll simply get them. You don't need to go full conspiracy mode.

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Hey man, I'm not the one sitting on the forum of a game I clearly hate to try to take a piss out of others. We had some special snowflakes like that in the past here, and they all became circus curios in the end when their pent up hate blew up eventually.

I am by no means a fan of Eddy, but I think you're both very much angwy. I think both of you need to step away from the computer and consider if this conversation is worth your respective whiles.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Place the only people even more incompetent than Blizz devs in charge of game development. Sounds feasible. Another genius idea from Edward Wu.

Yeah sure @_@. No his idea isn't genius. Don't encourage his ego.

I am by no means a fan of Eddy, but I think you're both very much angwy. I think both of you need to step away from the computer and consider if this conversation is worth your respective whiles.

I contest that, maka isn't angry...like at all.

[Le Conceptuel]

I'll just post this here. CAUTION SPOILERS!

Bad writing even by Blizzard standards. Reads like a fanfiction. Amazing imagery, though—do hope that has basis in reality, even if someone probably just made it.

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Yeah sure @_@. No his idea isn't genius. Don't encourage his ego.





I contest that, maka isn't angry...like at all.

Eh, you're right. I may be being too centrist here—not saying Eddy isn't far angrier, for sure. I'm just saying that he's engaging too much more than anything else. I suppose I ought to apologize for being a little hasty and snarky there, though.

On the topic of telling Eddy his idea is genius, true enough—I doubt his brain can process sarcasm.

[Teriz]

I mean, I really want Tinkers too—the idea of playing a Draenic Artificer in particular appeals to me greatly. But you're really clearly on copium here. You know, it's not like you have to look out for clues—Tinkers have always been a very legitimate likelihood, they just haven't found a place for them. You don't need to pretend they're constantly hinting at everything and playing 4d chess. You can just say "hey, this would be a cool class to have!". I mean, if they only added Dark Iron Dwarves and other such subraces ~15 years in, you know, that's not a very bad start for assuming that overdue things may happen. Perhaps they'll just stay in limbo like Ogres, but there's a good possibility we'll simply get them. You don't need to go full conspiracy mode.

Merely speculating in a speculation thread. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Luck4]

When exactly did people start hating on tinkers?

I probably missed something, because last time around, pre-SL and pre-BFA, I don't remember people hating on this class concept. What happened?

[Gladeheart]

I think it's because it comes up in literally every thread and devolves into people arguing with Teriz about why it isn't about to happen while he argues that it definitely is - its incredibly boring and ruins every thread, so then i think people just don't care about it anymore

[Three Faced Goddess]

Here are the two likeliest classes to come from WCIII hero units that have "hints", are established in lore, follow the hero class "pattern", and are fairly popular requests; Dark Rangers and Tinkers. However, there is another class that Blizzard once considered before choosing death knights during Wrath that could also still happen as it's also a popular request, is established in lore, and follows some of the hero class pattern; the necromancer. However, I won't say that none of the other hero units from WCIII can't become a class (or haven't) as some of them could be combined into a new class concept.

The hero class pattern I mentioned above is simply that each hero class comes from WCIII hero units, has a representative, has a novel about said representative, features in an appropriately themed expansion, has a fight fire with fire dynamic, and have NPCs in game. Tinkers and Dark Rangers both come from WCIII and have archetypical figures in Gelbin Mekkatorque and Sylvanas Windrunner who embody the class. Death Knights and Demon Hunters had the Lich King/Arthas and Illidan as "heroes" to represent them.

Both Illidan and Arthas had novels that focused on them released before Wrath and Legion. Sylvanas has a book that focuses on her releasing next year, what little that means considering it punctuates Shadowlands as opposed to heralding in the next expansion. To my knowledge, Gelbin hasn't gotten his own novel yet but that doesn't necessarily rule Tinkers out. Patterns often are broken. As Dark Rangers and Tinkers have yet to become playable they haven't appeared in a themed expansion.

Dark Rangers would likely appear in an undeath, death or void themed expansion. I say void themed because Dark Rangers are undead and are therefore resistant to the void's whispers. They also use shadow magic which (correct me if I'm wrong) is equivalent to void magic to blend seamlessly into the shadows in a manner similar to rogues. Void magic can be used to raise the dead, albeit as mindless constructs as opposed to true necromancy via death magic. Many of their abilities combine Death and Shadow magic or use one or the other. Among the NPC DR abilities that inflict shadow damage are Wailing Arrow, Shadowburn shot, Withering Fire, and Black Arrow.

Sylvanas was the very first DR from which all others came so it would make sense that their abilities would draw heavily from her abilities from the raid and HotS. Most her abilities inflict shadow damage as well. From what I've researched today, it appears that apart from some banshee abilities most of Dark Rangers heavily use void magic. A void expansion would be suitable to introduce them in as it would be fight void with void dynamic with resistance to it because of their undead state. However, I wouldn't mind Dark Rangers combined to create a new class concept that included the living races too. As much as I want it to mean something when it probably doesn't, there's the legendary bow Sylvanas drops that's themed after Dark Rangers.

Tinkers would appear in a technology or titan themed expansion, or one where titans and tech feature heavily. If the next expansion has heavy tech or titan themes and Blizz feels like adding another class then tinkers could happen soon. But if dragons are a heavy focus next expansion I doubt they'll be added. Tinkers would not feature in a void expansion because they're flesh and blood creatures that sometimes operate mechs and thus have no form of resistance to void whispers. Mechagnomes might be resistant though. Like DR, Tinkers have an NPC presence and in-game spells inspired by HotS Gazlowe.

Necromancer aren't a Hero Unit from WCIII, but they were planned for Wrath until Blizz decided on Death Knight. They also had a representative in the form of Kel'thuzad, have NPCs in the game and necromancer unique abilities. We're on the verge of exiting a death themed expansion that had necromancer abilities everywhere, mostly in Maldraxxus. Necromancers would likely appear in a death or undeath themed expansion. I would say void themed too as void/shadow magic can be used to raise the dead, but it's kind of shaky beyond that unless the necromancer class makes you undead as well. Sadly, Kel'thuzad never got a novel about him, but I don't think getting a novel or really any of the above is a hard requirement. Blizz could choose to never add another class ever again or deviate from whatever imagined pattern any of us come up with.

Tinkers, DR and Necromancers all have their flaws of course. The lore and concept for Dark Rangers and Tinkers needs to be expanded upon from what it currently is. Sadly, Dark Rangers had more lore behind it until they made the RPG non-canon. Necromancer might overlap somewhat (I don't think so and I play unholy DK) with DK and it's going to be awhile if we get another death or undeath themed expansion if ever.

PS: Dark Rangers are no longer an elf only class as there's a precedence for both Forsaken and Humans in addition to Blood Elves and Night Elves. If combined with other class concepts to say create a class called Umbral Ranger , I think that it could really go to both kind of trolls, void elves and Worgen.

TLDR: There's no true pattern set for what class will appear next, I'm just using the pattern I saw to create a discussion and to state what I, personally, see are likely classes. Tinkers, Dark Rangers and Necromancers are the most likely candidates, though I won't rule out others.

[Revamp Man]

Well because those are the only ones that do exist. The Dragonsworn from TTRPG aren’t canon.

Blizz can make anything canon
Kinda tough for a dragon to be a mortal servant of dragons

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Yeah, monk didn't have much lore before MoP either.

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I literally hate this idea. You would fit in well with the current dev team.

BuT HeRoEs AnD bReWmAsTeRs

[Teriz]

Blizz can make anything canon
Kinda tough for a dragon to be a mortal servant of dragons

A class based on Wrathion and Chromie doesn’t need to be called Dragonsworn. It would simply make more sense for Blizzard to go that route since they’re widespread, are very popular characters, and are actually present in the lore.

[Revamp Man]

Dragonsworn are mortals that serve dragons and get empowered

This is in the ttrpg just like every class
There are npcs that fit the description just like other classes
There are items with references to the dragonsworn
A dragon doesn’t fit the description of the dragonsworn

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A class based on Wrathion and Chromie doesn’t need to be called Dragonsworn. It would simply make more sense for Blizzard to go that route since they’re widespread, are very popular characters, and are actually present in the lore.

Ok so this is just gonna lead to a repeat of the same exact conversation from the past

What do classes need in order to be considered viable by the developers based on the past

HotS doesn’t need to be considered because we had classes before so it’s not a requirement

It has in game references via the item
It has in game abilities
It has the equivalent of in game npcs in the form of the black talon guard

Those are facts
The fact it’s non-canon really doesn’t mean anything given the last 4 years of story retcon I don’t see anything that means they don’t exist

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When exactly did people start hating on tinkers?

I probably missed something, because last time around, pre-SL and pre-BFA, I don't remember people hating on this class concept. What happened?

It’s not so much hate for tinkers as the fact there can’t be a discussion about classes or different concepts or anything like that we get the same multi page “that can’t happen any way other than this because of these rules that I say exist” and it kills everything and it’s no fun and it pops up every time tinker is mentioned

[Luck4]

It’s not so much hate for tinkers as the fact there can’t be a discussion about classes or different concepts or anything like that we get the same multi page “that can’t happen any way other than this because of these rules that I say exist” and it kills everything and it’s no fun and it pops up every time tinker is mentioned

I see, I asked just out of curiosity since I don't personally care about new classes.

[Varx]

Don't worry guys. 10.0 will be announced soon, along with Tinkers. Oh boy can I not wait to see how the anti to tinker crowd reacts.

"FuCK tHis GAmE TInKeRS aRE ThOoo THupID"

[cocomen2]

Don't worry guys. 10.0 will be announced soon, along with Tinkers. Oh boy can I not wait to see how the anti to tinker crowd reacts.

"FuCK tHis GAmE TInKeRS aRE ThOoo THupID"

Take your anti toxic meds, man.

[FossilFree]

Tinkers would be vehicle combat 100% of the time. Basically, Path of Ascension as a class, and we all know how popular THAT is.

[Luck4]

Don't worry guys. 10.0 will be announced soon

Blizzard Soon! So anytime in 2022.

[username993720]

No.

Liar liar pants on fire.
You're in a serious denial.

MoP predates HotS.

In any case, my goal here was to answer a question from a specific poster, not get into a back in forth with you about nitpicky things. Feel free to have the last word here.

Very well.

[Zexaniro]

I'll just post this here. CAUTION SPOILERS!

blizz is being set up to fail. anything less than a Kalimdor/EK revamp won't do it for a majority of players

[ExiHext]

blizz is being set up to fail. anything less than a Kalimdor/EK revamp won't do it for a majority of players

...says who? Surely not the "majority" I've talked to. You and your split personalities are not "the majority".