Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

We already know he's moving towards the Seat of the Arbiter, though. He's ascending in the literal sense, not metaphorical. Not sure why he would currently move towards Azeroth, either, when his goal is the Arbiter's key.

I think all of that is basically done in the final fight against Sylvanas. I guess all the Arbiter stuff will be handled in a cinematic and he then eventually steps through the portal and lands atop Icecrown Citadel. In my opinion this is the end of 9.1 and acts as the prolog for Shadowlands‘s climax that’s coming in 9.2 and takes place mainly on Azeroth.

[huth]

I think all of that is basically done in the final fight against Sylvanas. I guess all the Arbiter stuff will be handled in a cinematic and he then eventually steps through the portal and lands atop Icecrown Citadel. This is the end of 9.1 and acts as the prolog for Shadowlands‘s climax that’s happening on Azeroth in 9.2.

That's a lot of assumptions you're making there and try to draw conclusions from. All we're actually told is that he's moving towards the Seat of the Arbiter and presumably reaches it, since it is part of the raid. Anything after that is a wild guess on your part.

[Nyel]

That's a lot of assumptions you're making there and try to draw conclusions from. All we're actually told is that he's moving towards the Seat of the Arbiter and presumably reaches it, since it is part of the raid. Anything after that is a wild guess on your part.

Okay? Yes it’s assumptions, like all of the other stuff in this thread. It’s called 9.x Patches & 10.0 Speculation.

[huth]

Okay? Yes it’s assumptions, like all of the other stuff in this thread. It’s called 9.x Patches & 10.0 Speculation.

The problem comes when you keep on going on nothing but your own assumptions and lose any connection to the actual events. Speculation isn't completely random guessing.

[Le Conceptuel]

We fought a Titan after meeting the Titan Pantheon, participated in Sargeras' imprisonment in a way, smacked KJ, Azshara, Archimonde, and co with borrowed power. We're buddy buddy with Azeroth herself, we dismantled N'Zoth using a Necklace Titan Kamehameha, and now we're battling against Warcraft's Satan himself...

We surpassed Me'dan LONG...LOOOONNNNGGGG ago.

It's less about power levels and more about really jumping the shark. Until we canonically meet a Draenei-Orc-Human child of Med'an who has a prophecy based around him, we've not yet reached that level of Mary Sue. Sylvanas gets pretty close to a Villain Sue, having apparently personally assisted in destroying the entire balance of the universe, but she's still not as bad as that.

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Med'an seems hardly offensive compared to how bad BFA was, and especially with the power boost they gave Sylvanas and Jaina, plus PC characters killing titans and stuff, I don't see how anyone playing WoW would think a side character slightly depowered version of Med'an would be the worst.

It's not just about the power, though. It's about the general over-relevance and poor writing. There's power creep, and then there's true and sincere Mary Suehood.

[AngerFork]

Okay, so here I go !

World of Warcraft : Rise of a Titan

--snip--

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. Work was a bit crazed and I wound up missing most forums for the last week or so.

Anyhow, I really like this concept. I've long wondered about what the other side of Azeroth could be and/or what shape the planet would be in when Azeroth was born and this answers both fantastically. I can't deny that it would also be really interesting to see what Azeroth's take on us fighting each other over every last thing would be, given how much a lot of that fighting has probably damaged her in the process. I like the way you step through the zones too, especially with the Horde bringing in the Ogres in 10.3. One of the main reasons I stuck with BfA was the mid-patch races being unlocked and Ogres would be a massive get.

[TheFirstOnes]

It's less about power levels and more about really jumping the shark. Until we canonically meet a Draenei-Orc-Human child of Med'an who has a prophecy based around him, we've not yet reached that level of Mary Sue. Sylvanas gets pretty close to a Villain Sue, having apparently personally assisted in destroying the entire balance of the universe, but she's still not as bad as that.

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It's not just about the power, though. It's about the general over-relevance and poor writing. There's power creep, and then there's true and sincere Mary Suehood.

"Until we canonically meet a Draenei-Orc-Human child of Med'an who has a prophecy based around him, we've not yet reached that level of Mary Sue."

I pray you don't play 9.1 then...

Cause we're LITERALLY in the First One Korthian Prophecies as the "one who walked the Maw and saved EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING from Zovaal".

[huth]

"Until we canonically meet a Draenei-Orc-Human child of Med'an who has a prophecy based around him, we've not yet reached that level of Mary Sue."

I pray you don't play 9.1 then...

Cause we're LITERALLY in the First One Korthian Prophecies as the "one who walked the Maw and saved EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING from Zovaal".

We still don't have parentage from three different races and proficiency in multiple different types of magic. Besides, we do have our share of messups as well.

Not like we do the saving stuff all on our own, either. Part of the help is by getting everybody to clean up their mess and actually get their asses in gear to start acting against Zovaal.

[TheFirstOnes]

We still don't have parentage from three different races and proficiency in multiple different types of magic. Besides, we do have our share of messups as well.

Not like we do the saving stuff all on our own, either. Part of the help is by getting everybody to clean up their mess and actually get their asses in gear to start acting against Zovaal.

We have our fair share of mess-ups, and while that IS true, the shit is still fucked. At MOST, Me'dan defeated Cho'gall and prevented C'Thun's resurrection. It's not even that impressive anymore. Being the Guardian ain't really shit either, since we were essentially Khadgar's lvl anyway during Legion.

"Part of the help is by getting everybody to clean up their mess and actually get their asses in gear to start acting against Zovaal." Yeah, but we're the centerpiece of it all, which is insane.

Besides, Zovaal's still gonna kick our asses anyway by the end of 9.1, so who cares anymore lol

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Medan should just remain an orc, orcish orc. Sure he can be a good Mage but make him an Orc, none of this fancy crazyness that uhhh he ended up being. Resell his character.

[Le Conceptuel]

We have our fair share of mess-ups, and while that IS true, the shit is still fucked. At MOST, Me'dan defeated Cho'gall and prevented C'Thun's resurrection. It's not even that impressive anymore. Being the Guardian ain't really shit either, since we were essentially Khadgar's lvl anyway during Legion.

"Part of the help is by getting everybody to clean up their mess and actually get their asses in gear to start acting against Zovaal." Yeah, but we're the centerpiece of it all, which is insane.

Besides, Zovaal's still gonna kick our asses anyway by the end of 9.1, so who cares anymore lol

Well, there's a difference between a "Chosen One" plot and a proper Mary Sue. I do agree it's a little far to make us central to a prophecy, but reducing it to power creep and relevance isn't what makes a Mary Sue. It's how utterly disconnected he is from how the world should work and that the world bends around him rather than him interacting with it.

[Wangming]

The problem comes when you keep on going on nothing but your own assumptions and lose any connection to the actual events. Speculation isn't completely random guessing.

True, but we have to involve Azeroth somehow. Otherwise this whole expansion begs the question: Why do we even bother? To rescue the most boring characters this game has to offer from the Maw? Thanks, but no thanks. One of the things people disliked about WoD is that we spent the entire time on the past of an alternate dimension. SL shouldn't make the same mistake.

[huth]

Well, there's a difference between a "Chosen One" plot and a proper Mary Sue. I do agree it's a little far to make us central to a prophecy, but reducing it to power creep and relevance isn't what makes a Mary Sue. It's how utterly disconnected he is from how the world should work and that the world bends around him rather than him interacting with it.

There's also a difference between somebody being strong because they've been beating up half the universe and somebody being strong because the story says so.

Sure, maybe our power has grown to extreme levels over the years; but what stops us from being Mary Sues is the very fact that it grew and we didn't start out that way. For that matter, we first had to go and actually convince the Covenants to work with us, they didn't just randomly decide to trust us for no reason. In fact, the one time they apparently did turned out to be the one guy who very much knew what was going on and tried to pull a fast one on us.

Me'dan was good because he was Me'dan, not because he's spent the last decade repeatedly punching the universe in the face every time it got uppity with him. There was no actual reason other than maybe his parentage why he could do the stuff he could. We actually had to train for it and earned the spot.

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True, but we have to involve Azeroth somehow. Otherwise this whole expansion begs the question: Why do we even bother? To rescue the most boring characters this game has to offer from the Maw? Thanks, but no thanks. One of the things people disliked about WoD is that we spent the entire time on the past of an alternate dimension. SL shouldn't make the same mistake.

They may be boring, but they're still leaders of Azeroth and relevant to keeping the peace between Horde and Alliance. Besides, the Jailer kinda makes the whole thing personal and it's strongly implied his actions will have repercussions that affect us if not taken care of. There's no real need to involve Azeroth now that we're already involved in things.

I don't agree with you on the WoD complaint, either. That wasn't a common one at all. People were mostly busy complaining about the lack of anything to do outside of raiding and leveling and arguing over whether they should have flying.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This whole why do we even bother. Like do people even pay attention?


WoD we care because oh I dunno they started invaded the Blasted Lands...you think they'd stop there? No of fucking course not, taking the fight to them is just a better tactic. Same with the Legion as well. The SL and the balance of the universe, well.....since we know all souls are going to the Maw, we have incentive that anyone that dies on Azeroth ACTUALLY DOESN"T SUFFER ETERNALLY. Being in a different realm doesn't suddenly make the situation "Why should we bother."

"Most boring characters" I could go on about it being the right thing to do and you don't know boring characters but.... yeah whatever. There are arguments about SL that I understand but sometimes this forum has the most weirdest conclusions. Someone b eing peaceful in a story doesn't mean boring. jesus

[DatToffer]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. Work was a bit crazed and I wound up missing most forums for the last week or so.

Anyhow, I really like this concept. I've long wondered about what the other side of Azeroth could be and/or what shape the planet would be in when Azeroth was born and this answers both fantastically. I can't deny that it would also be really interesting to see what Azeroth's take on us fighting each other over every last thing would be, given how much a lot of that fighting has probably damaged her in the process. I like the way you step through the zones too, especially with the Horde bringing in the Ogres in 10.3. One of the main reasons I stuck with BfA was the mid-patch races being unlocked and Ogres would be a massive get.

Thanks ! And don't worry, it's not like there was any obligation !

I tried to fit most of Azeroth aspects into the story, so the patches are heavily themed. I think introducing Azeroth as a character should imply that her development resonates with the world itself and its inhabitants, so it's a super guideline for quests and events. I didn't go heavy on the new features for that reason too. As you can see, I thought things more narratively than gameplay-wise, which doesn't tell much about how we will make the world evolve. But you on the other hand had pretty nice ideas for gameplay !

[Wangming]

They may be boring, but they're still leaders of Azeroth and relevant to keeping the peace between Horde and Alliance.

What peace? The one that gets broken every second expansion anyway? To prevent the horrors of war that are never really adressed in game because every kingdom apparently has unlimited soldiers and money? Sorry, but if that is a player's only incentive to rescue a character from the afterlife, that is just sloppy writing.

[Nyel]

What peace? The one that gets broken every second expansion anyway? To prevent the horrors of war that are never really adressed in game because every kingdom apparently has unlimited soldiers and money? Sorry, but if that is a player's only incentive to rescue a character from the afterlife, that is just sloppy writing.

Faction war is the dumbest reason for strife in WoW anyway, BfA was just the pinnacle of awfulness when it comes to that. The entire faction war served no purpose, it was just there to give us Shadowlands and even that hasn’t been resolved yet. So don’t get me started with faction war, it’s just the lamest story Blizzard resorts to when they deem it necessary. Faction war never works because there’s always a bigger, universal threat which requires Horde and Alliance to work together.

[TheFirstOnes]

“Why do we bother with SL?”

Prolly cause the threat we’re currently facing is trying to claim the power of the top dogs in Warcraft for himself, and is also making Sargeras look like a bitch made threat.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

“Why do we bother with SL?”

Prolly cause the threat we’re currently facing is trying to claim the power of the top dogs in Warcraft for himself, and is also making Sargeras look like a bitch made threat.

Technically I already said that but in much harsher words

[TheFirstOnes]

Technically I already said that but in much harsher words

Yeah, I was just expanding upon what you said. People love downplaying they Jailer cause they talk about how Sargeras did a feat a fucking Fel Reaver could pull off with enough power energized within it.