1. #1741
    Between Bolvar literally being covered in red dragon flames, being the face of SL, and ysera coming back, there is a big dragon influence coming.

    For those that don’t know the Dragon Isles were also name dropped for the first time in BFA. So taking all this into account the next expansion will be set in the dragon Isles with the aspects looking to regain their strength.

    Lady sinestra will come back as the major antagonist for the start of it and will work on empowering the twilight dragon flight to herald in the void lords to azeroth.

    The aspects will get there powers back but sinestra will also show a terrible display of the voids power before being defeated.

    This will cause the newly empowered nozdormu to crap his pants and shatter his sanity at the threat azeroth is facing. Then nozzy turns into Murozond and creates the Infinite Dragonflight and is the last threat of 10.x

    The final raid consists of alternative versions of various lore figures summoned by Murozond. Once we defeat him he unleashes one final attempt without our knowledge and the expansion ends…

    Meanwhile, stormwind is visited by AU Yrel and her lightbound in an attempt to recruit the alliance to their cause. Yrel sends AU garrosh to recruit the horde.

    During the pre expansion event the LB are successful in recruiting the scarlet crusade but negotiation fall apart with the alliance and horde.

    AU garrosh steals the power of the sun well with a shard of the Light Mother and flees to azurmist isle where Yrel has taken control of the vindicaar. They have also kidnapped locus walker and use him and the vindicaar to travel to where 11.0 takes place… Ka’resh. This is where the void/light war begins.

    10.0 exp features

    New hero class: dragon sworn

    New allied races:

    Horde: lightbound undead

    Alliance: dragonoid race from shipwrecked alliance soldiers in the dragon Isles that share the worgen rig

    11.0 exp features

    New core races

    Horde: ogres
    Alliance: arrakoa

    4th specs (10th expansion and 20th anniversary means drastic additions)

  2. #1742
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    This makes it even way worse, because now everything in WoW can suddenly be tied back to him. A ridiciculous looking nobody is suddenly the mastermind behind the whole franchise.
    Yeah, that's basically the quintessence of Shadowland's story and the main reason why it doesn't work.
    ________

    I like the theory about the Jailer resurrecting Galakrond and that's why we need the Aspects and go to Dragon Isles in 10.0. It's very cliche and out of the blue, but I like the link between Jailer - Galakrond - Aspects - Dragon Isles.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  3. #1743
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It isn't a retcon, the area behind the helm of domination and Frostmourne was vague, all we knew that the dreadlords were involved. "Feels" don't matter. It also explains why Uther in Wrath says Arthas is a dwindling presence in the Lich King's mind. It might of not been intentional but it does fit that there's something else going on with the Lich King.
    When it comes to story, how it feels absolutely matters more than the details themselves.

    When it comes to LORE, however, feel doesn't matter.

    They've always hinted at there being more. They've never really been good at explaining. They try to use wayyyyy too many metaphors to leave themselves openings in the future, which is why it feels so poorly written.

    It FEELS like they write a little bit of a story, get ahead of themselves, and then try to play catchup instead of writing a full thorough story with an actual team and going from there.

    To give you an example Game of Thrones. When they got ahead of themselves... you get an ending like that where everyone is disappointed.

    Now don't confuse disappointed with angry or upset, because many WoW players do. You can be disappointed and still shrug your shoulders.

    But you can also have the culmination of a lot of work to end up killing the Lich King. At present it feels like nothing is really a build up anymore. It's just poorly connect chapters done poorly on purpose so they can have openings in the future.

    Personally, in my less than humble opinion, I think they've ran out of content but know they have to keep WoW as... WoW because they, likely, can't re-create the MMO atmosphere again that created WoW (the largest reasons other MMO's fail -- now simply isn't the time and WoW just got lucky). So what else to do with a cash cow but to milk it.

    BfA felt very poorly done and a shitty ending. Like horrible. Thus far SL feels.. meh. Like an average writer, no one special slapped together something. It doesn't feel 'epic' even though my character is supposed to be 'epic' or something. But I should get going, I need to get some boar's tusks or something... But I'm Azeroth's Champion!

  4. #1744
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Ok so assuming we don’t go to dragon isles in 9.2 or 9.3 then I’m fairly certain 10.0 goes there for a few reasons

    1. Wrathion is essentially a titan infused dragon due to the MoP leggo quest
    2. The last 3 expansions have been a big bad going for Azeroth and we need the aspects empowered as a line of defense
    3. It fits the pattern of minor threat after big threat along with the fact we are in the time of nozdormu disappearing building up to the infinite


    We only know that the jailer “ascends” in the raid and it’s assumed to the seat of the arbiter

    Now is the next patch Azeroth or is it us going on the defensive since in 9.1 we continue our attack.

    The jailer also seems to have his goal set on getting to Azeroth and killing her which is hinted to since 8.3 whispers then 9.0 and now 9.1

    - - - Updated - - -



    The only way I can see people arguing for sympathy is that we don’t know why he was locked up
    This is my assumption:

    10.0 will be a Light and Shadow expansion, with Light taking the lead in the 10.0 and 10.1, and the Void taking the lead from 10.2 to 10.3. The Dragon Isles could be the backside of Azeroth, and the Siege of SW could be the new pre-patch main scenario event.

    That way, we have:

    An Undermine Dungeon involving more Azerite, a Tel'abim dungeon, Scarlet Crusade Dungeons, a World Revamp, Lordaeron and Gilneas returning as a contested world PVP/PVE area, a raid with Yrel at Shattrath where we battle and kill Lothraxion, us going to Farahlon, and a raid with the Chromatic and Infinite Dragonflight, with Chromatus being the final boss.

    10.1 could be about Sargeras and the Titans. There, we have a mini raid where we battle Sargeras and some other guys, and we essentially defeat him in combat within the Realm of Order. Illidan returns, we see Azeroth's Titan soul manifest for the first time, and we get our first clear image of the Void Lords.

    Oh, and after we beat Sargeras, he returns to the Titans (Tho with weapons and guns being pointed at him), and the beings of Fel have to make a new order. A chaos Pantheon, similar to the Chaos Gods from Warhammer 40k.

    10.2 could be about space shit such as Elune, the First Ones, the Lords of Light, and us battling the Old Gods and taking our way to the Void Lords.

    10.3 could lastly be about the Void Lords and K'aresh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Yeah, that's basically the quintessence of Shadowland's story and the main reason why it doesn't work.
    ________

    I like the theory about the Jailer resurrecting Galakrond and that's why we need the Aspects and go to Dragon Isles in 10.0. It's very cliche and out of the blue, but I like the link between Jailer - Galakrond - Aspects - Dragon Isles.
    Meh, if the Jailer DID resurrect Galakrond, I'd like to imagine he'd be in the final raid, and not the Dragon Isles themselves. His Death could be the lead-in toward awakening Chromatus, however.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Because, remember, Chromatus IS in an Arcane Prison in Northrend. So, if Galakrond dies, his death could rumble and break the Arcane Prison keeping the 5 headed Tiamat
    at bay.

  5. #1745
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    This is my assumption:

    10.0 will be a Light and Shadow expansion, with Light taking the lead in the 10.0 and 10.1, and the Void taking the lead from 10.2 to 10.3. The Dragon Isles could be the backside of Azeroth, and the Siege of SW could be the new pre-patch main scenario event.

    That way, we have:

    An Undermine Dungeon involving more Azerite, a Tel'abim dungeon, Scarlet Crusade Dungeons, a World Revamp, Lordaeron and Gilneas returning as a contested world PVP/PVE area, a raid with Yrel at Shattrath where we battle and kill Lothraxion, us going to Farahlon, and a raid with the Chromatic and Infinite Dragonflight, with Chromatus being the final boss.

    10.1 could be about Sargeras and the Titans. There, we have a mini raid where we battle Sargeras and some other guys, and we essentially defeat him in combat within the Realm of Order. Illidan returns, we see Azeroth's Titan soul manifest for the first time, and we get our first clear image of the Void Lords.

    Oh, and after we beat Sargeras, he returns to the Titans (Tho with weapons and guns being pointed at him), and the beings of Fel have to make a new order. A chaos Pantheon, similar to the Chaos Gods from Warhammer 40k.

    10.2 could be about space shit such as Elune, the First Ones, the Lords of Light, and us battling the Old Gods and taking our way to the Void Lords.

    10.3 could lastly be about the Void Lords and K'aresh.

    - - - Updated - - -


    .
    So you want a world revamp, outland, titans, first ones and the void lords all in one expansion? Sorry but this sounds like an out of focus mess that isn't about anything in particular.

  6. #1746
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    So you want a world revamp, outland, titans, first ones and the void lords all in one expansion? Sorry but this sounds like an out of focus mess that isn't about anything in particular.
    It's about Light and Shadow. Did you not play the last expansions? BFA was 3 expansion plots in 1, and Legion was 2. SL is also pretty fuckin full, atm.

    And no, it's not Outland. Have you...not heard of K'aresh?

    - - - Updated - - -

    The World Revamp is probably the ONLY fucked part of the assumption, and I only said that cause it seems they've been working on it since WoD or Legion, but in small steps.

    Oh, I know what you mean by Outland. No, Draenor. AU Draenor. Farahlon doesn't NEED to be a patch thing. Just a Dungeon area.

  7. #1747
    Disclaimer: I'm basing these comparisons off of story alone, I don't care about gameplay or systems.

    BfA: MoP 2.0.
    Shadowlands: WoD 2.0.
    10.0: Legion 2.0.

    Expect a big massive cosmic conflict for 10.0, expect a big showdown for a long-seeping conflict in the Warcraft franchise, the conflict between Light and Void.

    It's all lining up. It's been lining up since Turalyon and Alleria were put in charge of the Grand Alliance.

  8. #1748
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    It's about Light and Shadow. Did you not play the last expansions? BFA was 3 expansion plots in 1, and Legion was 2. SL is also pretty fuckin full, atm.

    And no, it's not Outland. Have you...not heard of K'aresh?

    - - - Updated - - -

    The World Revamp is probably the ONLY fucked part of the assumption, and I only said that cause it seems they've been working on it since WoD or Legion, but in small steps.

    Oh, I know what you mean by Outland. No, Draenor. AU Draenor. Farahlon doesn't NEED to be a patch thing. Just a Dungeon area.
    Yes, and BfA was a disaster.

    And yeah I said Outland as you mentioned a Shattrath raid and going to Farahlon. Generally speaking the one continent one plot line expansions work the best. Blizz rarely pulls off anything more complex. And while Legion did have the Emerald Nightmare returning, the story was still: Gather the Pillars of Creation.

  9. #1749
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Disclaimer: I'm basing these comparisons off of story alone, I don't care about gameplay or systems.

    BfA: MoP 2.0.
    Shadowlands: WoD 2.0.
    10.0: Legion 2.0.

    Expect a big massive cosmic conflict for 10.0, expect a big showdown for a long-seeping conflict in the Warcraft franchise, the conflict between Light and Void.

    It's all lining up. It's been lining up since Turalyon and Alleria were put in charge of the Grand Alliance.
    I'm not certain Alleria's really as "in charge" as Turalyon is. She's definitely going to be an important military leader, but it looks like Turalyon's getting primed up to be Alliance Hitler for a bit and is going to be the central element.

  10. #1750
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I'm not certain Alleria's really as "in charge" as Turalyon is. She's definitely going to be an important military leader, but it looks like Turalyon's getting primed up to be Alliance Hitler for a bit and is going to be the central element.
    I went to Stormwind Keep in-game yesterday and I saw Alleria in the War Room next to the Stormwind Throne Room (I didn't know she was there), it is safe to say that she is a high advisor to Turalyon, as that's the same council chamber where Velen and Greymane used to meet with Anduin too. And we all know how important Velen and Genn were for the Alliance in Legion and BfA respectively.

    Turalyon is indeed the Regent Lord of the Alliance but it makes sense that he'd keep his wife around as close advisor.

    And God I hope Turalyon won't be turned into a villain. Turalyon is an absolutely ICONIC character of the Alliance of old, same for Alleria. Literally the first thing every player see when they enter Stormwind for the first time are the glorious statues of Turalyon and Alleria. I truly hope they do not get villain-batted.

    Use Yrel as a villain! She was already set up as such in the Mag'har scenario.

    The sad thing is that even Yrel as villain reeks of toxic writing (she's a villain while Grommash, who abused and ruined her life dies a hero's death...), so there's really no win situation imaginable.

  11. #1751
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I went to Stormwind Keep in-game yesterday and I saw Alleria in the War Room next to the Stormwind Throne Room (I didn't know she was there), it is safe to say that she is a high advisor to Turalyon, as that's the same council chamber where Velen and Greymane used to meet with Anduin too. And we all know how important Velen and Genn were for the Alliance in Legion and BfA respectively.

    Turalyon is indeed the Regent Lord of the Alliance but it makes sense that he'd keep his wife around as close advisor.

    And God I hope Turalyon won't be turned into a villain. Turalyon is an absolutely ICONIC character of the Alliance of old, same for Alleria. Literally the first thing every player see when they enter Stormwind for the first time are the glorious statues of Turalyon and Alleria. I truly hope they do not get villain-batted.

    Use Yrel as a villain! She was already set up as such in the Mag'har scenario.

    The sad thing is that even Yrel as villain reeks of toxic writing (she's a villain while Grommash, who abused and ruined her life dies a hero's death...), so there's really no win situation imaginable.
    Eh, I'd rather prefer Turalyon not to go full villain in the sense of making him just be Hitler and Alliance Garrosh, but I'm not sure if I am opposed to the idea of him representing the military edge of the Alliance. Keep in mind that the Alliance is a union of nations, so they can all withdraw support, and it seems like the Night Elves are already on shaky terms with the rest of the Alliance, with other hardliners sure to follow, and they'd definitely be prone to rally around Turalyon with his "reclaiming old territories" talk we get from him.

    It would be nice to finally have the Alliance shake up a bit. We rarely get to see their politics - keep in mind they're actually technically far more politically primitive than the Horde. The Horde is rallying under military dictatorships like Silvermoon and organizing a sort of defense council (it's starting to look less like a Comintern-esque hegemon or even just a big federal government like the U.S. and more like a legitimate, voluntary pact like NATO) while the Alliance is still under more primitive governments than their counterparts. The Draenei and Night Elves are theocratic, the Gnomes just turned into a technocratic kind of enlightened monarchy, there are four conventional monarchies (Gilneas, Stormwind, Ironforge, Kul Tiras, though the latter does use the trappings of a military dictatorship), one of which is actually a confederacy of three monarchs within that, and a disparate group of scholars with no real government to speak of. The Lightforged, despite having the trappings of a military dictatorship, were led directly by a Naaru and now presumably answer to Velen, thus making them a theocracy, unless Turalyon really does have absolute control now and is the military dictator.

    Putting Turalyon on the chair would mean that he could eventually make the role of High King back into its original incarnation of supreme commander and allow the Alliance to catch up, government-wise. It would be somewhat amusing for the nobles to appoint him before promptly finding themselves on the receiving end of a purge (especially given Umbric's apparent distaste for squandering material goods and, as you mentioned, Alleria being put up there and thus being a liaison between them that Turalyon would trust). Add to that how it presents an interesting paradigm shift, meaning that now the Alliance have taken on a form of governance similar to the Horde under a Warchief, now being a confederacy run by a military dictator. Alliance infighting definitely does present an image similar to Germany following World War I - a monarchy recently abolished, a powerful dictator taking the reigns, and all sorts of hostile sentiment that the Horde seems to have abandoned with its final purge of its forces.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2021-04-19 at 05:41 PM.

  12. #1752
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Disclaimer: I'm basing these comparisons off of story alone, I don't care about gameplay or systems.

    BfA: MoP 2.0.
    Shadowlands: WoD 2.0.
    10.0: Legion 2.0.

    Expect a big massive cosmic conflict for 10.0, expect a big showdown for a long-seeping conflict in the Warcraft franchise, the conflict between Light and Void.

    It's all lining up. It's been lining up since Turalyon and Alleria were put in charge of the Grand Alliance.
    How tf is this WoD 2.0?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I went to Stormwind Keep in-game yesterday and I saw Alleria in the War Room next to the Stormwind Throne Room (I didn't know she was there), it is safe to say that she is a high advisor to Turalyon, as that's the same council chamber where Velen and Greymane used to meet with Anduin too. And we all know how important Velen and Genn were for the Alliance in Legion and BfA respectively.

    Turalyon is indeed the Regent Lord of the Alliance but it makes sense that he'd keep his wife around as close advisor.

    And God I hope Turalyon won't be turned into a villain. Turalyon is an absolutely ICONIC character of the Alliance of old, same for Alleria. Literally the first thing every player see when they enter Stormwind for the first time are the glorious statues of Turalyon and Alleria. I truly hope they do not get villain-batted.

    Use Yrel as a villain! She was already set up as such in the Mag'har scenario.

    The sad thing is that even Yrel as villain reeks of toxic writing (she's a villain while Grommash, who abused and ruined her life dies a hero's death...), so there's really no win situation imaginable.
    She'll be a great Villain...

    For a .0 patch.

  13. #1753
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    10.0 exp features

    New hero class: dragon sworn

    New allied races:

    Horde: lightbound undead

    Alliance: dragonoid race from shipwrecked alliance soldiers in the dragon Isles that share the worgen rig
    Oh cool more humans...

  14. #1754
    "And God I hope Turalyon won't be turned into a villain." Dude's a zealot. Fuck him, dood.

  15. #1755
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "And God I hope Turalyon won't be turned into a villain." Dude's a zealot. Fuck him, dood.
    I mean, it was speculated plenty how much of it was actually Light's control over him.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  16. #1756
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Eh, I'd rather prefer Turalyon not to go full villain in the sense of making him just be Hitler and Alliance Garrosh, but I'm not sure if I am opposed to the idea of him representing the military edge of the Alliance. Keep in mind that the Alliance is a union of nations, so they can all withdraw support, and it seems like the Night Elves are already on shaky terms with the rest of the Alliance, with other hardliners sure to follow, and they'd definitely be prone to rally around Turalyon with his "reclaiming old territories" talk we get from him.

    It would be nice to finally have the Alliance shake up a bit. We rarely get to see their politics - keep in mind they're actually technically far more politically primitive than the Horde. The Horde is rallying under military dictatorships like Silvermoon and organizing a sort of defense council (it's starting to look less like a Comintern-esque hegemon or even just a big federal government like the U.S. and more like a legitimate, voluntary pact like NATO) while the Alliance is still under more primitive governments than their counterparts. The Draenei and Night Elves are theocratic, the Gnomes just turned into a technocratic kind of enlightened monarchy, there are four conventional monarchies (Gilneas, Stormwind, Ironforge, Kul Tiras, though the latter does use the trappings of a military dictatorship), one of which is actually a confederacy of three monarchs within that, and a disparate group of scholars with no real government to speak of. The Lightforged, despite having the trappings of a military dictatorship, were led directly by a Naaru and now presumably answer to Velen, thus making them a theocracy, unless Turalyon really does have absolute control now and is the military dictator.

    Putting Turalyon on the chair would mean that he could eventually make the role of High King back into its original incarnation of supreme commander and allow the Alliance to catch up, government-wise. It would be somewhat amusing for the nobles to appoint him before promptly finding themselves on the receiving end of a purge (especially given Umbric's apparent distaste for squandering material goods and, as you mentioned, Alleria being put up there and thus being a liaison between them that Turalyon would trust). Add to that how it presents an interesting paradigm shift, meaning that now the Alliance have taken on a form of governance similar to the Horde under a Warchief, now being a confederacy run by a military dictator. Alliance infighting definitely does present an image similar to Germany following World War I - a monarchy recently abolished, a powerful dictator taking the reigns, and all sorts of hostile sentiment that the Horde seems to have abandoned with its final purge of its forces.
    People have been speculating about this so-called "Alliance infighting" since like SoO :shrug: And nothing ever came out of these theories. Sure, Turalyon might turn into a tyrant, just like Varian could have turned into a tyrant, Anduin could have turned into a tyrant, Greymane could have burned Teldrassil to deny the Horde that conquest, etc. etc. etc. "Alliance will be the villain" theories tend to be completely off the mark, so don't get your hopes up and expect disappointment if you think the Alliance will be the aggressor.

  17. #1757
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    People have been speculating about this so-called "Alliance infighting" since like SoO :shrug: And nothing ever came out of these theories. Sure, Turalyon might turn into a tyrant, just like Varian could have turned into a tyrant, Anduin could have turned into a tyrant, Greymane could have burned Teldrassil to deny the Horde that conquest, etc. etc. etc. "Alliance will be the villain" theories tend to be completely off the mark, so don't get your hopes up and expect disappointment if you think the Alliance will be the aggressor.
    That would be rather unfortunate. They're definitely giving the foundations for a good plot with it.

  18. #1758
    Ambitious, which is why I doubt it'll come to fruition. But make sure that Horde has an equitable draconic race to play as, and you can sign me up.

  19. #1759
    The thing that is different this time with the "Alliance infighting", this time we have them saying it will happen according to an interview. But hard to say how much infighting we really get (or if its already over lol)

  20. #1760
    At the end of the day, blue is blue and red is red. No manufactured drama will ever have any sort of legitimate effect on the structure of the factions, and thus, any "in-fighting" is inherently without drama as there can never be any true consequences.

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