1. #18041
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresT View Post
    Sylvanas is going to get “let off” by Tyrande (maw exile or something similar) for this very reason. i really doubt that we are getting a faction conflict again (Alliance civil war is another story) and they are going to want to give Ashenvale a new story that isn’t just Nelves and Orcs running at each other.

    Are there going to be pissed Nelf traitors? Totally. But I expect zero horde v nelf wars moving forward and the whole “renewal” thing is just about setting up a new status quo that actually has to do with life magic in Ashenvale instead of le war.
    We don't need a civil war of any kind or any internal conflict. I don't want Nelves stuck on Sylvanas's actions either, especially if its the new narrative for years to come. That would be annoying.


    The worst part of Cataclysm's humor wasn't that Blanchy died for a CSI joke or that Uldum was a giant Indiana Jones reference, it's that the ones in the old zones especially were what new players would see instead of actual world-building. It may have sounded fun to the developers who were bored of the old questlines to spice them up, but for anyone who hadn't seen them it removed the world-building in exchange for a gag. On the actual world-building side, the fact that this happened during Garrosh's warmongering tenure means that all new players (on either faction) also would see a warmongering, sacred land-defiling Horde for the majority of their leveling. That isn't really a plot point you want immortalized in such a way.
    I think the jokes were just too massive. Its one thing to make jokes but having it zonewide is a bit much(Like Uldum would of been a perfect place to do more titan lore exploring instead of Harrison jones and I realize it wasn't all a joke but enough of it was to make a problem).
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  2. #18042
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Eh it's about as dumb as it always is. Couple people with leaks good enough to seem true, then out comes the absolute Vietnamese Crystal-level crap.
    I feel like I've become more hesitant to dismiss the stupider-sounding leaks since WoD. If anything, its premise was so unutterably... shall we say audacious that it's the more painfully safe and unimaginative leaks I find myself side-eying.

  3. #18043
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    We don't need a civil war of any kind or any internal conflict. I don't want Nelves stuck on Sylvanas's actions either, especially if its the new narrative for years to come. That would be annoying.
    I'm against internal conflict because historically the story (and to some extent the community) has been unable to handle the nuance such a plot would require. In a perfect world I'd much prefer the story to address the complexities of the interactions of the various nations of Azeroth, but it's not something that's worked out before. I also think it's less likely than it might seem. Turalyon may have crossed some lines in Shadows Rising, but that's not his normal characterization. Turalyon was the classic hero in his youth, good enough to even rally the sour kings to form the Alliance. The Army of the Light hasn't really shown a change in that. He went against Xe'ra's wishes for the sake of his wife, so we know he didn't become a mind-controlled zealot either. He flipped out on Illidan, sure, but for an understandable reason, and he was quickly calmed down.

    If we get a "Turalyon won't relinquish the throne" plot I think it'd have more to do with Lothraxion and end up as a more typical "secret cosmic villain leads splinter group" plot than anything resembling a civil war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I think the jokes were just too massive. Its one thing to make jokes but having it zonewide is a bit much(Like Uldum would of been a perfect place to do more titan lore exploring instead of Harrison jones and I realize it wasn't all a joke but enough of it was to make a problem).
    Yeah, I didn't mean to dismiss the issues with the jokes themselves entirely, but I do think the fact that they replaced existing worldbuilding in many areas was a huge mistake even where the jokes were tolerable.
    Last edited by Jokubas; 2022-01-13 at 11:52 PM.

  4. #18044
    For me the biggest issue with Cataclysm was how Blizzard remade all the zones, and then only made them relevant for levelling, archaeology profession notwithstanding.

    It's almost as if Cata was made with the design philosophy that we were still playing Vanilla, where zones were explored solely from the ground, and all of them was relevant in some aspect to some degree even at max level.
    However the game had already moved fully into the WotLK design philosophy that you had a couple zones relevant for endgame, and raiding was the preeminent mode of gameplay.
    And even with that, only a small portion of the zone map was relevant for dailies, as opposed to now where world quests are everywhere.


    A good world revamp would need a better integrated world, and would also need to consider endgame as the primary means of engaging with the world.
    Zones would need to be relevant in some aspects, and while there is a vocal part of the playerbase that dislikes the open world aspect it should get some love that doesn't need to cater to those that just want to play as little as possible.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #18045
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    A good world revamp would need a better integrated world, and would also need to consider endgame as the primary means of engaging with the world.
    Zones would need to be relevant in some aspects, and while there is a vocal part of the playerbase that dislikes the open world aspect it should get some love that doesn't need to cater to those that just want to play as little as possible.
    I've definitely gotten burned out of the current, scorched earth style of 'only the current zone is important', and being 'take your whole month and maybe then some' level important. I'd like to think they're doubling down on it while killing time to replace it with something more elaborate, but I won't bet on it. I agree that a world revamp will feel kinda pointless without it though. I think newer games have done a better job keeping more content relevant for longer so it's something that they could do, at least.

    I'm reminded of a discussion I had with my brother about Torghast. He's generally a fan of Torghast and definitely likes the solo/scaling small group content that it adds to the game, but it obviously won't exist outside this expansion. We came up with an idea to do something similar with a much more neutral hub that could have wings based on zones from anywhere in the game, and basically become a timeless version of Torghast that can always be updated, rather than an expansion-specific feature that fills a timeless niche. Make it a hub in the Caverns of Time or Karazhan or even just the capital city portal rooms, and it could at least get more use out of the assets of the world and give a better impression that the world exists in places that aren't explicitly plot relevant.

  6. #18046
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    For me the biggest issue with Cataclysm was how Blizzard remade all the zones, and then only made them relevant for levelling, archaeology profession notwithstanding.
    It was necessary. Imagine 1-60 staying the same all to way to SL. Old world wouldn't be nostalgia source like between 2010-2019, but huge burden to the game. I know many cases when potential new WoW players bounced off game very fast because they made mistake to choose Belf or Draenei as their first race. Later even Cata zones become little outdated (but still pretty smooth even right now), although too high max level become another burden.

    Can't really blame devs for not making zones relevant for max level, no one was doing it back then. At best we had few max level areas with dailies.

  7. #18047
    I do not know if this is the right place for my question. But since we are speculating... What do you guys have to say about the supposed WoW Complete Edition for consoles that was going to be unveiled at the Game Awards?

    If 10.0 is a new beginning for WoW (and it has to be something different), it would be a good moment to release the game on consoles.

    I would absolutely LOVE to play WoW on consoles, especially since I cannot play It on PC anymore since my left arm and chest hurts a lot after a few hours of gaming position
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

  8. #18048
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    There was a "World Tree 2" map in the game's map database file until 9.2 which renamed it to the most inconspicuous word in the game: "UNUSED".
    World Tree 2 is interesting because it ties both the Dragons Isles hints and the revamped buildings on the data files. I mean, Teldrassil had a lot of problems with corruption, and the damage caused was only fixed with Alextrasza and Ysera's blessing, when both were still Dragon Aspects. So, since Dragon Aspects are no longer a thing, and Teldrassil is pretty much dead, maybe Azeroth being a dragon is the only thing capable of fixing Teldrassil.
    Azeroth must be remastered!

  9. #18049
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    I do not know if this is the right place for my question. But since we are speculating... What do you guys have to say about the supposed WoW Complete Edition for consoles that was going to be unveiled at the Game Awards?

    If 10.0 is a new beginning for WoW (and it has to be something different), it would be a good moment to release the game on consoles.
    It could be good timing for a console port, but I don't know enough to comment on the likelihood.
    Last edited by Jokubas; 2022-01-14 at 12:51 AM.

  10. #18050
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    World Tree 2 is interesting because it ties both the Dragons Isles hints and the revamped buildings on the data files. I mean, Teldrassil had a lot of problems with corruption, and the damage caused was only fixed with Alextrasza and Ysera's blessing, when both were still Dragon Aspects. So, since Dragon Aspects are no longer a thing, and Teldrassil is pretty much dead, maybe Azeroth being a dragon is the only thing capable of fixing Teldrassil.
    Well not saying the map means anything but they did tweet a year ago something about trees re-grow with a winky face. I thought it was just empty PR speech to make someone feel better but there could be something to it

    Last edited by Khaza-R; 2022-01-14 at 01:41 AM.

  11. #18051
    I'm actually a little worried that quote just means that Teldrassil will be available in the present again, exactly as it was, with "trees can regrow" as the excuse to avoid having to revamp anything.

    Personally, I'm glad Teldrassil was burned down (just not the context). It never made any sense that the night elven capital was an entirely new location off the coast of their own continent. I wonder what the behind the scene decision for that was, rather than making the capital in Moonglade (where it was implied to be at one point) or Hyjal (their most iconic location at the time). As far as I know that's one bit of early development we've never gotten a postmortem for.

    If I recall, hints that the night elves had moved to Nordrassil were overblown, but I still think it's a way more exciting idea than just bringing back Teldrassil. To be fair though, as long as a new Teldrassil is built to actually resemble a tree instead of the stump it was physically modeled as until its destruction, it'll be a much more interesting place.

    -----------------

    Incidentally, the tradition that I'm keeping an eye out for is whether the next expansion will have a coincidental connection to an upcoming Magic: The Gathering set again.

    For those who don't know what I'm talking about, I'll explain.

    1) Around the time of Warlords of Draenor, Magic: The Gathering announced a set named Khans of Tarkir (that was originally trademarked as Warlords of Khanar). It was a story about a guy who went back in time on his savage homeworld to make sure that history turned out better for his people. It was also the first time Magic seriously featured orcs in a long time (the time traveler was not an orc, however).

    2) I didn't notice anything for Legion, but during the speculation for what would become Battle for Azeroth, Magic: The Gathering announced Ixalan, a set that involved a clash between a dinosaur-riding, Mesoamerican-inspired empire and a naval force with pirates. Despite it not being typically associated with either group, the set also prominently featured vampires (though on the naval side rather than the Mesoamerican side like the blood trolls).

    3) Finally, around the time of Shadowlands, Magic: The Gathering had Theros: Beyond Death, a set that involved delving into the underworld.

    It's obviously not intentional and the details are more than different enough, but what does line up has consistently been enough to be notable.

    My hope this time is that the upcoming set "Dominaria United" is a sign that we might have a world revamp (Dominaria was the original main setting of Magic before it started visiting other worlds all the time) and cross-faction play (thanks to the United part of the name and promotional artwork of a blue army and a red army shaking hands). ;P
    Last edited by Jokubas; 2022-01-14 at 02:48 AM.

  12. #18052
    Epic! AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    I do not know if this is the right place for my question. But since we are speculating... What do you guys have to say about the supposed WoW Complete Edition for consoles that was going to be unveiled at the Game Awards?

    If 10.0 is a new beginning for WoW (and it has to be something different), it would be a good moment to release the game on consoles.

    I would absolutely LOVE to play WoW on consoles, especially since I cannot play It on PC anymore since my left arm and chest hurts a lot after a few hours of gaming position
    WoW on console is an interesting idea if done right. I've long been suspicious of how well it could work, but playing FFXIV on console has opened my eyes. If WoW wants to bring more players into the game, they could do far worse than launching on XBox/PS. I did wonder if some of the ability pruning they were doing a while back was in preparation for a more action-like push button console setup.

    If it comes out on console, I'd be very interested to try it out. It would be a nice thing to launch alongside a world revamp, whenever that might happen.

  13. #18053
    Dragon Isles
    Horde and Alliance can group up for endgame activities
    Tinkerer, mail(healer, rdps, others tbd)
    New talents row(changes abilities, doesn't add)
    Versatility scrapped
    Tertiary stats scrapped
    4 new secondary stats(crit multiplier, ArP is back, others tbd)
    Another soulbind system(more complex)
    Everything else is the same: 20m mythic raids, tier sets, crafted legendaries, dungeons, arenas, rep grinds, etc
    And no old world revamp...ever

  14. #18054
    Quote Originally Posted by sigrsmg View Post
    Dragon Isles
    Horde and Alliance can group up for endgame activities
    Tinkerer, mail(healer, rdps, others tbd)
    New talents row(changes abilities, doesn't add)
    Versatility scrapped
    Tertiary stats scrapped
    4 new secondary stats(crit multiplier, ArP is back, others tbd)
    Another soulbind system(more complex)
    Everything else is the same: 20m mythic raids, tier sets, crafted legendaries, dungeons, arenas, rep grinds, etc
    And no old world revamp...ever
    if these 2 bolded REALLY HAPPEN IN ANY FUTURE EXPANSION- it's no-buy for me.

  15. #18055
    Pit Lord Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    I seriously doubt blizzard would ever spell the class as "Tinkerer" instead of Tinker. Also seems weird for a dragon expansion. Reminds me of the old fake SL leaks saying Tinker will be a ghostbuster.

  16. #18056
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    if these 2 bolded REALLY HAPPEN IN ANY FUTURE EXPANSION- it's no-buy for me.
    That list sounds more like some clueless armchair dev's wishlist. We won't likely see ArP as a regular stat back ever, since it is nearly impossible to balance with the damage profiles of the classes, and crit multiplier would lead to exponential damage growth way beyond what we see now. As would any increase in the number of secondaries, for that matter.

    In the same line, versa may be relatively boring, but it does the job it is supposed to quite well, so i can't see them scrapping it. Same goes for tertiaries, they're not supposed to be a big deal and generally aren't. Which mostly leaves the somewhat obvious stuff or predictions that have been made 10 times over already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I seriously doubt blizzard would ever spell the class as "Tinkerer" instead of Tinker. Also seems weird for a dragon expansion. Reminds me of the old fake SL leaks saying Tinker will be a ghostbuster.
    Tinkler. *duck*

  17. #18057
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigrsmg View Post
    Dragon Isles
    Horde and Alliance can group up for endgame activities
    Tinkerer, mail(healer, rdps, others tbd)
    New talents row(changes abilities, doesn't add)
    Versatility scrapped
    Tertiary stats scrapped
    4 new secondary stats(crit multiplier, ArP is back, others tbd)
    Another soulbind system(more complex)
    Everything else is the same: 20m mythic raids, tier sets, crafted legendaries, dungeons, arenas, rep grinds, etc
    And no old world revamp...ever
    New talents row, lol. As if they'd ever dust that thing off after this many years.
    Talents - ☑
    EK/Kalimdor Revamp - ☒
    Endgame Gearing Revamp - ☐

    FFXIV - Crystal Datacenter | Classic - Ashkandi (Horde)

  18. #18058
    I am Murloc! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Not only we got standard bullshit leaks, people now try to legitimize them with "Blizz dev in my guild said that". Like it actually gives it more credit.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  19. #18059
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    World Tree 2 is interesting because it ties both the Dragons Isles hints and the revamped buildings on the data files. I mean, Teldrassil had a lot of problems with corruption, and the damage caused was only fixed with Alextrasza and Ysera's blessing, when both were still Dragon Aspects. So, since Dragon Aspects are no longer a thing, and Teldrassil is pretty much dead, maybe Azeroth being a dragon is the only thing capable of fixing Teldrassil.
    Why should Teldrassil be fixed? Why are night elves entitled to a big fat tree?

  20. #18060
    I am Murloc! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Why should Teldrassil be fixed? Why are night elves entitled to a big fat tree?
    Dunno. Ask your undead elf chick.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

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