1. #18281
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    It wasn’t watcher telling players that they already changed the 8.0 chest weeks before launch and anyone complaining don’t really play the game
    We already were at the point that Hazzikostas is responsible for everything that happens to the game nowadays. Watcher is the guy who destroyed World of Warcraft for many of its players.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    It wasn’t watcher calling players toxic garbage humans
    I call watcher incompetent. Watcher and Danuser. That is all i talk about.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Bellular doesn’t have the numbers raid participation and m+ participation aren’t accurate measurements because those players are the minority aren’t they??
    Yes, they are. Only around 1,5 mio players of 13 mio players which is around 11% of the players played it at start of the expac. Now it is 380.000. Regarding the numbers Bellular quotes it is less than 2 active subs in total now. Seems mythic+ players are more loyal. But they do not pay boosts. The casual gamers pay boosts. Now imagine the game had 6 million casual gamers, and not just 1 million.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Whales are the main income for tons of games I’m surprised you didn’t realize that
    Boosting and subs are the main income of the game. Whales would mean blizzard would sell items for thousand dollar each. They just sell tokens to normal players for a few bucks, which is as toxic as P2W, but always allows blizzard to argument it is not pay to win because it needs someone to farm the gold. Which does not change you buy services like raid boosts for real money, even with a step between.

    I tell you, boosting has made the trade chat a shitshow. Boosting is one of the many reasons players leave. Because playing in groups was replaced by boosting people for gold.

    They could keep the token, it would still sell much better if the game had 10 million players instead of 2 million players. In the end, the game would be way more successfull, in every single aspect, if they created a fun experience.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-01-16 at 11:09 PM.

  2. #18282
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    1.) To solve that problem the management would have to replace Hazzikostas / Danuser. Hazzkostas focuses entirely on raids and dungeons and does not know how to design anything else, and Danuser is retconning the lore to death. Unfortunately, the management is as incompetent as Danuser and Hazzikostas and they believe their lies the game could never perform better as it does now.
    2.) I gave you sources to monitor the players and sub development. Mythic dungeons participation went down from 1,5 mio to 380k, which is 25% of the initial participation. Raid participation on wowprogress shows a similar development. Regarding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToaLY0DF2gY&t=0s WoW went down from 13 million Shadowlands sales to not even 2 million active subs. Do the math yourself.
    3.) Now imagine 10 million players would buy tokens, and not just 2 million players.
    Changing either of the two would do nothing. The Game is going downhill heavily ever since WoD already. Lore can be mildly uninteresting for all I care but if the Gameplay is poor, there is no incentive to play.

    So long as they dont get rid of the "stretch the Gametime the utmost way" method, they'll never get rid of their current Systemcraft.

    Regarding Patches 9.2 and 10.0 respectively, the first has to carry the Game into the next Expansion and do that decently well, because if 10.0 is a letdown as the Battle for Azeroth were and the Shadowlands are the Game will ultimately not survive. It will already struggle heavily in the 9.2 content drought we have ahead of us because the next Expansion is definitely not releasing earlier than Q4 2022 and that could already be very well generous. I smell a one year 9.2 ahead of us since I dont think a January release is plausible.

    10.0 also needs to tidy up all their issues because I do not think this Game can take 3 bad expansions in a row. The Game has never been this dry and barebones before and we are just in patch 9.1 when it comes to its dwindling Playerbase.

    For 10.0 to be a success they need to bring in something that gains a lot of people. A new class here comes to mind, aswell as potentially new Races. They need a big banger that attracts sales aswell as keeps players motivated. Which means less chores that are absolutely horrendous and no fun to play like Korthia, Choreghast, or the Maw in general, better, improved and in-depth Class Design aswell as fun, engaging Content that does not force you to be online, but rather makes you want to stay online.

    But afterall, this is Activison Blizzard we are speaking about.

    Everything that should have been at Launch for Shadowlands from patches 9.1 & 9.1.5, that a big portion of the entire Playerbase screeched about during pre-release Stages (be it Covenant pull the Ripcord or other things), to an absolute lack of care about any Balance whatsoever in the PvP section, you truly have to wonder where their development money goes into. Even if they only have one to two million subs, some token players included, where are the ten million going into every month? Definitely not the Game.

    Its pretty obvious how this will end and potentially also WoW.

    Its just alpha, beta will get it right. Its just beta, they have time till Launch. Its launch month, they have other things to work on. They need to focus on 10.1, it will fix the issues.

    Either 10.0 will be a big blast because Shadowlands is irredeemable, or the whole Game seems to be very likely at its maintenance mode until it gets even less content until it is done for the next couple years. But judging what for an absolute joke Shadowlands thus far is, and what for an absolute letdown the Community Council is, I think we can already foretell the future by just looking at the Expansion Reveal the next weeks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It just sounded ominous as if he would save that info for future use to something, that's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Next class is Necromancer. Tinker will never happen.

    You read first here.
    Oh yeah?

  3. #18283
    Quote Originally Posted by High Tinker Buliwyf View Post
    Either 10.0 will be a big blast because Shadowlands is irredeemable, or the whole Game seems to be very likely at its maintenance mode until it gets even less content until it is done for the next couple years. But judging what for an absolute joke Shadowlands thus far is, and what for an absolute letdown the Community Council is, I think we can already foretell the future by just looking at the Expansion Reveal the next weeks.
    Do not believe any lies Hazzikostas is going to tell you, also do not believe any promises they make. They neither know player agency nor will ever care about it. The only thing the current game director cares about is his raiding game. And that actually is the problem with World of Warcraft.

    It is unlikely 10.0 will bring any better game. People hoped for that in 9.0. They hoped for that in 8.0. And every time, players got disappointed. The only thing that will stop them from creating shit is if people stop buying their shit. I for one hope for the end of WoW in consequence of another bad try in 10.0, but unfortunately players always hope WoW will be better in the next expac, so they buy it. Just to get disappointed and to leave one month after release.

  4. #18284
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Do not believe any lies Hazzikostas is going to tell you, also do not believe any promises they make. They neither know player agency nor will ever care about it. The only thing the current game director cares about is his raiding game. And that actually is the problem with World of Warcraft.

    It is unlikely 10.0 will bring any better game. People hoped for that in 9.0. They hoped for that in 8.0. And every time, players got disappointed. The only thing that will stop them from creating shit is if people stop buying their shit. I for one hope for the end of WoW in consequence of another bad try in 10.0, but unfortunately players always hope WoW will be better in the next expac, so they buy it. Just to get disappointed and to leave one month after release.
    Which is why the reveal of the Expansion already has to be big. Almost in the way of "back to the roots" of some sorts, with a new Class (or even two, who knows?) and more to do that is fun, but not forced.

    Its pretty much a 50/50. If the Expansion reveal itself already looks to be barebones, good night World of Warcraft, 20 years have been enough. When even the Sheep leave the Game you know you goofed.

    But they can still turn this around. They have the money, they have the time, they perhaps have the people. It does not take a genius to look back to the previous Expansions and do what worked regards Classes and Content. You just have to play Video Games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It just sounded ominous as if he would save that info for future use to something, that's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Next class is Necromancer. Tinker will never happen.

    You read first here.
    Oh yeah?

  5. #18285
    Quote Originally Posted by High Tinker Buliwyf View Post
    But they can still turn this around. They have the money, they have the time, they perhaps have the people. It does not take a genius to look back to the previous Expansions and do what worked regards Classes and Content. You just have to play Video Games.

    It is this hope which made 13 millions players buy Shadowlands. Just to get disappointed. I lost all hope WoW will ever become a good game again.

  6. #18286
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    canonically nobody actually lived in the city or the undercity. They lived in Brill.
    Okay that doesn't answer my question, and opens whole new ones; Did no one really live in Undercity?!? Where is that from??

  7. #18287
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    It is this hope which made 13 millions players buy Shadowlands.
    Where did you get this number? The up-to-the-first-day sales figure was less than 4 million.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The greatest use of a life is to spend it on something that will outlast it." -- William James
    "The Oculus, but it's the whole expansion!" -- Brianna Royce, Massively OP, on Dragon Riding

  8. #18288
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    We already were at the point that Hazzikostas is responsible for everything that happens to the game nowadays. Watcher is the guy who destroyed World of Warcraft for many of its players.



    I call watcher incompetent. Watcher and Danuser. That is all i talk about.



    Yes, they are. Only around 1,5 mio players of 13 mio players which is around 11% of the players played it at start of the expac. Now it is 380.000. Regarding the numbers Bellular quotes it is less than 2 active subs in total now. Seems mythic+ players are more loyal. But they do not pay boosts. The casual gamers pay boosts. Now imagine the game had 6 million casual gamers, and not just 1 million.



    Boosting and subs are the main income of the game. Whales would mean blizzard would sell items for thousand dollar each. They just sell tokens to normal players for a few bucks, which is as toxic as P2W, but always allows blizzard to argument it is not pay to win because it needs someone to farm the gold. Which does not change you buy services like raid boosts for real money, even with a step between.

    I tell you, boosting has made the trade chat a shitshow. Boosting is one of the many reasons players leave. Because playing in groups was replaced by boosting people for gold.

    They could keep the token, it would still sell much better if the game had 10 million players instead of 2 million players. In the end, the game would be way more successfull, in every single aspect, if they created a fun experience.
    Ok so you agree that using the raiders and m+ participation doesn’t mean that the game only has 2m players

    Congratulations now you just need to realize that the game director doesn’t get to say “hey make this system work like that”

    There are players that max out the amount of tokens they can buy which means they spend more than a single sub in fact 3 tokens equal 4 subs so for every 3 tokens sold you are actually getting the same amount of income as 4 subs

    Kotick will place more emphasis on getting token sales than worrying about subs evidenced by the amount of store garbage over this expansion

  9. #18289
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Where did you get this number? The up-to-the-first-day sales figure was less than 4 million.
    I don't know, but i'd advise against smelling them.

  10. #18290
    Immortal Shadochi's Avatar
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    To add to the M+ participation numbers dropping, it really isn't a fair estimate as even in my guild (Semi-casual, we do raid mythic but usually don't clear it before next raid) the participation has went down in M+ over the months even if the people are still subbed and active, most people got their BIS drop from dungeons and aren't bothered that much with pushing keys. I for example while I have been subbed for all of SL and play almost daily have not done a M+ in over 2 months I think.

    Now to get on the actual topic of this thread, I really wish that at least a part of that one leak for 10.0 is true where it talked that after 9.2 we will be getting a "Season of Mastery" like patch touring the different raids of the past, be it just as a patch or as a prelude to remember the old world before it changes once again.
    I mean we can almost be sure that 10.0 wont come this year since Alpha for previous expansions usually started in the coming weeks, and having a year of 9.2 probably wouldn't suffice. The World Tour Season Of Mastery might be easier to develop than an entire content patch and would help out with the drought
    I guess what I'm saying is that I just don't want 9.2 to be the last content patch

  11. #18291
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    To add to the M+ participation numbers dropping, it really isn't a fair estimate as even in my guild (Semi-casual, we do raid mythic but usually don't clear it before next raid) the participation has went down in M+ over the months even if the people are still subbed and active, most people got their BIS drop from dungeons and aren't bothered that much with pushing keys. I for example while I have been subbed for all of SL and play almost daily have not done a M+ in over 2 months I think.

    Now to get on the actual topic of this thread, I really wish that at least a part of that one leak for 10.0 is true where it talked that after 9.2 we will be getting a "Season of Mastery" like patch touring the different raids of the past, be it just as a patch or as a prelude to remember the old world before it changes once again.
    I mean we can almost be sure that 10.0 wont come this year since Alpha for previous expansions usually started in the coming weeks, and having a year of 9.2 probably wouldn't suffice. The World Tour Season Of Mastery might be easier to develop than an entire content patch and would help out with the drought
    I guess what I'm saying is that I just don't want 9.2 to be the last content patch
    Yeah the massive gaps between content patches aren't helping the situation, and probably excaberate things.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  12. #18292
    I'm honestly very happy to see that MMO-Champion has actually become fun again. I'm sincerely shocked and pleased by the number of fake leaks, shitposts, and locked threads that aren't about politics.

  13. #18293
    Quote Originally Posted by Wharren View Post
    The reason I think that we are getting faction neutrality as a big expansion theme is because it’s not in Shadowlands. It absolutely should be, as we are in another world and with new factions, but its held back by story reasons: namely Tyrande vs Sylvanas. People even asked multiple times this expansion and you see the devs being more and more responsive about cross-faction grouping. Lately it’s been almost confirmed by Ion.
    Ion has also said, repeatedly "The faction war is the basis of the entire game & we're never-ever getting rid of it" And if they wanted to do that. 9.0 would have been the time. Tyrande & Sylvanas are basically completely removed from the Horde & Alliance at this point.

  14. #18294
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Ion has also said, repeatedly "The faction war is the basis of the entire game & we're never-ever getting rid of it" And if they wanted to do that. 9.0 would have been the time. Tyrande & Sylvanas are basically completely removed from the Horde & Alliance at this point.
    Ion said that Alliance & Horde are part of the Warcraft DNA, not the faction war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Tyrande & Sylvanas are basically completely removed from the Horde & Alliance at this point.
    How is Tyrande removed from the Alliance?

  15. #18295
    Immortal Shadochi's Avatar
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    With a bit of a delay, it is finally that time of the 2-year again

  16. #18296
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    How is Tyrande removed from the Alliance?
    Telling Anduin to go fornicate with himself halfway through bfa

  17. #18297
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Ion said that Alliance & Horde are part of the Warcraft DNA, not the faction war.


    How is Tyrande removed from the Alliance?
    Tyrande is off on her own insanity that has Horde and Alliance leadership all concerned about.

    Of course that's a moot point now that she no longer has the Night Warrior ripping her apart at the seams.

  18. #18298
    seems like they datamined effects from 10.0 deluxe mount? what could this be

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/datamin...edition-325627

  19. #18299
    Fluffy Parrot Marlamin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svetox View Post
    seems like they datamined effects from 10.0 deluxe mount? what could this be

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/datamin...edition-325627
    We've already talked about this pretty extensively as this is the same stuff we found and posted about on MMOC on Saturday, but Wowhead decided to also embed the textures which was probably something we should've done

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I'm honestly very happy to see that MMO-Champion has actually become fun again. I'm sincerely shocked and pleased by the number of fake leaks, shitposts, and locked threads that aren't about politics.
    I agree, it's been pretty fun reading "leaks" again, and while some people tend to get easily upset over fake stuff, I think most are able to look through that and at the cool creativeness some or the people in this community have... as well as those that don't.

  20. #18300
    Holy crap I can't believe I missed that!

    If that isn't confirmation on 10.0 dragon isles idk what is lmao.

    It's happening!!!!!!

    Big oof to all the ney sayers.

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