1. #18361
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Because the last time they reported, Legion at one point had 22 million subs. So if they've gone from 22 million subs to 12 million, that's not something you want to advertise.
    Well, i tell you, for me it was nothing but a pathetic try to get rid of good arguments. Actually, they still publish numbers through their api you can collect for statistics, and it shows quite a lot how much the game suffers.

    But hey, as long Ion has his raids, he will not care.

    I wonder how low the budget will get if you only have a few hundred thousand raiders left playing the game, after everyone else left.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-01-17 at 05:03 PM.

  2. #18362
    I think Ion could do with sharing a co-Game Director position with someone more in tune with the causal elements of game design, say, Muffinus. I do however think Danuser needs to go. That guy almost feels like he joined Blizzard just to sabotage it from within. I miss Metzen.

  3. #18363
    What if it's not about dragons, but something kills all the dragons, and we try to go after whoever killed all the dragons?
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  4. #18364
    Jesus, I thought I hate fake leaks, but they are top content compared to numbers and arguments pulled straight out of the ass. Lifelands, lightlands, shitlands, flying islands - I welcome you all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Player concurrency. 12 million subscribers does not mean 12 million concurrent players. Huuuuuuge difference.
    Well obviously, who the hell thinks all subbed people play at same time?

    As for expansion sales, I wouldn't be surprised if TBC and especially Wrath sold much less than people think. Remember that 1) huge part of subs in early days were new people and many tried WoW only because it was popular and bounced pretty fast (WoW had 100M registered accounts between 2004-2013, but never more than 12M subs at same time), 2) before battlechest you had to buy vanilla -> buy sub -> put LOT of hours into leveling vanilla -> buy TBC -> level there -> buy Wrath. Now path is way shorter.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2022-01-17 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #18365
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I think Ion could do with sharing a co-Game Director position with someone more in tune with the causal elements
    It's obvious that's what they did since Legion, because there is no way a hard core theorycrafter would add such a massive spam of world-grinding that affects borrowed power for raids and not make it so that it's mainly derived from in-raid. Those world quests and borrowed powers overengineered systems are definitely not coming from him but I doubt they'll ever admit whoever is the original creator as a person.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  6. #18366
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I think Ion could do with sharing a co-Game Director position with someone more in tune with the causal elements of game design, say, Muffinus. I do however think Danuser needs to go. That guy almost feels like he joined Blizzard just to sabotage it from within. I miss Metzen.
    Yeah, Muffinus seems to be quite the right guy for a job like that.

    Even more, probably he should be game director instead of that lawyer.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-01-17 at 05:30 PM.

  7. #18367
    Reading all about how many people blame Bobby is confusing to me. Bobby in my view honestly doesn't care what Blizzard does so long as the MAU's are high and the in-game store sales are tied to the MAUs.

    The faults really stem from the direct leadership over the game and that falls on Ion.

  8. #18368
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    My 6th sense just triggered. 9.2 Release announcement this week?
    9.1 date reveal was just like 12 days before launch. I think patch will launch 22nd February, so 10th February for blue post would be my guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Reading all about how many people blame Bobby is confusing to me. Bobby in my view honestly doesn't care what Blizzard does so long as the MAU's are high and the in-game store sales are tied to the MAUs.

    The faults really stem from the direct leadership over the game and that falls on Ion.
    Unlike many expansions, design is not significant issue in SL. At worst some systems feel unnecessary/pointless, but in no shape or form invasive. Biggest problems are patch schedule and scandals in Acti-Blizzard, where Kotick clearly is part of problem.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2022-01-17 at 06:03 PM.

  9. #18369
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Oof. February has Horizon and Elden Ring, it will be very hard for 9.2 in February, if that's the supposed release month.
    I somehow doubt there is much direct competition between those games and WoW.
    There are probably loads of players that want to play both, I know I am going to play the new Horizon game, but the MMO genre doesn't really compete with games like Horizon or the Soulslikes for player space.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #18370
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    9.1 date reveal was just like 12 days before launch. I think patch will launch 22nd February, so 10th February for blue post would be my guess.



    Unlike many expansions, design is not significant issue in SL. At worst some systems feel unnecessary/pointless, but in no shape or form invasive. Biggest problems are patch schedule and scandals in Acti-Blizzard, where Kotick clearly is part of problem.
    I don't argue that the scandals and patch release did not hurt, they absolutely did.. But I urge you to look into the topics prior to WoW's scandal hit. The systems are 100% what a ton of casual players hate. I've been monitoring the forums since the start of January and I can say that from this forum, WoW's forum, Reddit, and YT the comments that appear the most consistent are complaints from casual players.

    And that's 100% on Ion, and that dude can't even bring himself to talk about casual players in interviews, because when he does he starts stammering and looking uncomfortable.
    Last edited by Miffinat0r; 2022-01-17 at 06:15 PM.

  11. #18371
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Reading all about how many people blame Bobby is confusing to me. Bobby in my view honestly doesn't care what Blizzard does so long as the MAU's are high and the in-game store sales are tied to the MAUs.

    The faults really stem from the direct leadership over the game and that falls on Ion.
    Bobby at this point is more a negative influence on Blizzard morale than design. There are several devs who have left over the scandal, and probably several who are lower ranked who are contemplating leaving, if not having left already.

    Bonny leaving at this point would be a fairly sizeable morale boost, and would allow Blizzard lots of positive forwards momentum in regards to publicity.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #18372
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Bobby at this point is more a negative influence on Blizzard morale than design. There are several devs who have left over the scandal, and probably several who are lower ranked who are contemplating leaving, if not having left already.

    Bonny leaving at this point would be a fairly sizeable morale boost, and would allow Blizzard lots of positive forwards momentum in regards to publicity.
    Bobby would have a positive on the Activision side with King/CoD. It would impact Blizzard but Ybarra, Ion, and Dansuer leaving would have an even bigger morale boost.

  13. #18373
    Hello

    I say patch 9.2 day for 15 US / 16 EU february keep the day

  14. #18374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Bobby would have a positive on the Activision side with King/CoD. It would impact Blizzard but Ybarra, Ion, and Dansuer leaving would have an even bigger morale boost.
    ....No, Kotick needs to go.
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  15. #18375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Bobby at this point is more a negative influence on Blizzard morale than design. There are several devs who have left over the scandal, and probably several who are lower ranked who are contemplating leaving, if not having left already.

    Bonny leaving at this point would be a fairly sizeable morale boost, and would allow Blizzard lots of positive forwards momentum in regards to publicity.
    Ha, good luck with making him leave. "Fire Bobby Kotick" died pretty quickly, since his buddies at the board protect him.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  16. #18376
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Bobby would have a positive on the Activision side with King/CoD. It would impact Blizzard but Ybarra, Ion, and Dansuer leaving would have an even bigger morale boost.
    For players maybe, but Bobby is known for having enabled predatory behaviour, and that is the kind of thing that the actual developers probably notice even more.
    Players disliking the game is definitely not good for morale, but even worse is knowing that you CEO is obstructing criminal justice and is responsible for the scandals that have tainted the public view of Blizzard.

    Ion and other game developers leaving would probably just make the forums cheer, but that kind of internet response is short lived and would be immediately forgotten once the new raid isn't up to impossible standards, or a quest is bugged.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #18377
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ha, good luck with making him leave. "Fire Bobby Kotick" died pretty quickly, since his buddies at the board protect him.
    I just feel like Bobby gets more heat because players have this perception that he's the reason the game is the way it is, and I worked at a few large fortune 500 companies and c-suite while their opinion will get implemented, the middle management team sets the standard on most everything.

    Ion has way more fault with how the game is right now than Bobby does. Bobby probably has more toxic culture surrounding him, but the bad design choices, and the old school restrictive gameplay are still very much a feature of Blizz's leadership which ties back to when Kaplan and Alex were there.

  18. #18378
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ha, good luck with making him leave. "Fire Bobby Kotick" died pretty quickly, since his buddies at the board protect him.
    That is true, but one can hope.
    Unlike the playerbase complaints, the allegations of sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice, or worse still enabling of sex offenders, is the kind of stain on a company that leaves them derelict.

    In a saner world we would have seen Kotick dropped like a hot potato for harming the bottom line, but at this point it seems more likely that Bobby is willing to squeeze the last ounce of profit from Blizzard and Activision at the expense of seeing it die rather than leave.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    I just feel like Bobby gets more heat because players have this perception that he's the reason the game is the way it is, and I worked at a few large fortune 500 companies and c-suite while their opinion will get implemented, the middle management team sets the standard on most everything.

    Ion has way more fault with how the game is right now than Bobby does. Bobby probably has more toxic culture surrounding him, but the bad design choices, and the old school restrictive gameplay are still very much a feature of Blizz's leadership which ties back to when Kaplan and Alex were there.
    Bobby gets the hate because he enabled the culture of sexual misconduct in the Blizzard office.
    If nothing else we can point to this culture as the reason we see so many developers jump ship, which tells us thst there is a morale problem if nothing else.

    Also he takes a several million dollars a year bonus while his lower ranked employees have to share a tiny apartment with several coworkers just to get by.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  19. #18379
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    That is true, but one can hope.
    Unlike the playerbase complaints, the allegations of sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice, or worse still enabling of sex offenders, is the kind of stain on a company that leaves them derelict.

    In a saner world we would have seen Kotick dropped like a hot potato for harming the bottom line, but at this point it seems more likely that Bobby is willing to squeeze the last ounce of profit from Blizzard and Activision at the expense of seeing it die rather than leave.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Bobby gets the hate because he enabled the culture of sexual misconduct in the Blizzard office.
    If nothing else we can point to this culture as the reason we see so many developers jump ship, which tells us thst there is a morale problem if nothing else.

    Also he takes a several million dollars a year bonus while his lower ranked employees have to share a tiny apartment with several coworkers just to get by.
    Bobby did tolerate that because he himself is also accused. I get that. But lets be fair here; Prior to Activision you can go back and read old MMORPG forums from other players not in WoW telling Blizzard not to hire Alex because of his toxic behavior. Kaplan and Alex were toxic people back then. Fortunatley for Blizz Kaplan moved out of that mindset; Alex never did, and he still remains a giant piece of crap.

  20. #18380
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Unlike many expansions, design is not significant issue in SL. At worst some systems feel unnecessary/pointless, but in no shape or form invasive. Biggest problems are patch schedule and scandals in Acti-Blizzard, where Kotick clearly is part of problem.
    There are few things I've read on this website that were not written with active malice in mind that I've disagreed with more. I can write a master's thesis on how abhorrent systems design has been in Shadowlands -- I actually miss BfA's systems by comparison. Shadowlands is the diet version of BfA systems, which were themselves the diet version of Legion systems. Conduits and soulbinds may have been the single largest waste of developer resources in the history of the game, power progression is horribly done, and domination sockets are still awful to this day.

    At least corruption and essences had the decency to be fun for some specs. Shadowlands are largely non-interactive invisible power that you don't notice on an individual attack but you sure as hell notice on the damage meters. This isn't even getting into tying player power into some of the most unfun grinds the game has ever had (largely because combat is so bad at this point, but also because Korthia was a horribly designed zone and Torghast has had nothing but problems since the redesigned it after the Shadowlands alpha).

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