Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Revamp Man]

That logo really seems legit the more I look at it. Everything about it is new. Even the choice to use void colors for a dragon expansion is a choice.

Twilight flight

- - - Updated - - -

They're not going to announce an expansion Empire of Dragons (EoD) the year GW2 releases their expansion End of Dragons (EoD).

Exactly what they want us to think

[EluneExpansion]

I am not a Blizzard employee and I won’t risk saying what the position the person who told me this has. I don’t know the name of the expansion, its announcement date or release date.

The next expansion is focused on a now actively antagonistic Elune (likely corrupted - the goal is to help fix her, not kill her) changing history in the Kaldorei Empire. This is an actual time travel expansion and is actually set in our reality, not an AU, and is planned to lead to a soft reboot of the lore. The new landmass/dimension is called Eldre’thalas (the old name for Dire Maul is being repurposed as the name for the Kaldorei Empire). It is not the entirety of Ancient Kalimdor, just a section of it. There are eight dungeons at launch, two for each zone. The first raid is the savannah capital of the anshiir (lion/cat race).

The main enemy is Elune’s Moonforged forces. Minor enemies include the Nightmare (a subsection of Elune’s forces now – Light themed), the Infinite Dragonflight, a breakaway Silithid hive and an empire of Anshiir. Main characters in this expansion that we’ve already met before are Tyrande (main timeline Tyrande is a friend while past Tyrande is an antagonist), Kaldorei Queen Azshara, Ysera, Malfurion, and Illidan.

The main city is Zin’Azshari and it is neutral to both factions. It is located at the eastern reach of the continent. Apparently none of the Legion zones are here (Suramar/Val’sharah/Azsuna) since they’d look too similar in this timeline. The few zones that we’ve seen before (Nazjatar, parts of Kalimdor) look even more different than the Draenor zones did compared to Outland.

New allied races based on extinct or critically endangered races found in the past. All of the allied races are neutral and can pick either faction. The ones I know about are dark trolls (they now look more like savage night elves with tusks), anshiir (a cat race with both ‘furry’ and humanoid versions playable - both count as the same race), titanborne (large stone people that are like bulkier vrykul) and potamu (Indian-inspired rhino-like race). There are less planned for 10.0 than were in BFA and I don’t know how many will actually be available at launch. There’s also minor new class customization in the vein of the green fire warlock stuff.

The main new advancement system is companions. You pick from one of five possible companions who you level up through different tasks and by collecting a new currency to spend on them. They each have their own skill tree which powers you up through them. They also join you in combat out in the world (NOT in instances). You have to gear your companion the same way you gear yourself. To others they appear as a no-name of the same general theme. The options are the Stormrage Brothers (as far as gear goes, they’re the same person), an honorbound exiled potamu warrior, a cured moonforged Titanborne, a highborne warlock lord, and dark troll “proto-monk.”

There are no Dragon Isles at launch, nor is there a big Light presence (outside of the Light being the likely force behind Elune’s actions).

I won’t answer any questions until after the official announcement.

[Revamp Man]

I am not a Blizzard employee and I won’t risk saying what the position the person who told me this has. I don’t know the name of the expansion, its announcement date or release date.

The next expansion is focused on a now actively antagonistic Elune (likely corrupted - the goal is to help fix her, not kill her) changing history in the Kaldorei Empire. This is an actual time travel expansion and is actually set in our reality, not an AU, and is planned to lead to a soft reboot of the lore. The new landmass/dimension is called Eldre’thalas (the old name for Dire Maul is being repurposed as the name for the Kaldorei Empire). It is not the entirety of Ancient Kalimdor, just a section of it. There are eight dungeons at launch, two for each zone. The first raid is the savannah capital of the anshiir (lion/cat race).

The main enemy is Elune’s Moonforged forces. Minor enemies include the Nightmare (a subsection of Elune’s forces now – Light themed), the Infinite Dragonflight, a breakaway Silithid hive and an empire of Anshiir. Main characters in this expansion that we’ve already met before are Tyrande (main timeline Tyrande is a friend while past Tyrande is an antagonist), Kaldorei Queen Azshara, Ysera, Malfurion, and Illidan.

The main city is Zin’Azshari and it is neutral to both factions. It is located at the eastern reach of the continent. Apparently none of the Legion zones are here (Suramar/Val’sharah/Azsuna) since they’d look too similar in this timeline. The few zones that we’ve seen before (Nazjatar, parts of Kalimdor) look even more different than the Draenor zones did compared to Outland.

New allied races based on extinct or critically endangered races found in the past. All of the allied races are neutral and can pick either faction. The ones I know about are dark trolls (they now look more like savage night elves with tusks), anshiir (a cat race with both ‘furry’ and humanoid versions playable - both count as the same race), titanborne (large stone people that are like bulkier vrykul) and potamu (Indian-inspired rhino-like race). There are less planned for 10.0 than were in BFA and I don’t know how many will actually be available at launch. There’s also minor new class customization in the vein of the green fire warlock stuff.

The main new advancement system is companions. You pick from one of five possible companions who you level up through different tasks and by collecting a new currency to spend on them. They each have their own skill tree which powers you up through them. They also join you in combat out in the world (NOT in instances). You have to gear your companion the same way you gear yourself. To others they appear as a no-name of the same general theme. The options are the Stormrage Brothers (as far as gear goes, they’re the same person), an honorbound exiled potamu warrior, a cured moonforged Titanborne, a highborne warlock lord, and dark troll “proto-monk.”

There are no Dragon Isles at launch, nor is there a big Light presence (outside of the Light being the likely force behind Elune’s actions).

I won’t answer any questions until after the official announcement.

You killed it in the first paragraph

[Cherry123]

with all the dragon crap people forgot about the past hype about cross faction.

[Le Conceptuel]

I am not a Blizzard employee and I won’t risk saying what the position the person who told me this has. I don’t know the name of the expansion, its announcement date or release date.

The next expansion is focused on a now actively antagonistic Elune (likely corrupted - the goal is to help fix her, not kill her) changing history in the Kaldorei Empire. This is an actual time travel expansion and is actually set in our reality, not an AU, and is planned to lead to a soft reboot of the lore. The new landmass/dimension is called Eldre’thalas (the old name for Dire Maul is being repurposed as the name for the Kaldorei Empire). It is not the entirety of Ancient Kalimdor, just a section of it. There are eight dungeons at launch, two for each zone. The first raid is the savannah capital of the anshiir (lion/cat race).

The main enemy is Elune’s Moonforged forces. Minor enemies include the Nightmare (a subsection of Elune’s forces now – Light themed), the Infinite Dragonflight, a breakaway Silithid hive and an empire of Anshiir. Main characters in this expansion that we’ve already met before are Tyrande (main timeline Tyrande is a friend while past Tyrande is an antagonist), Kaldorei Queen Azshara, Ysera, Malfurion, and Illidan.

The main city is Zin’Azshari and it is neutral to both factions. It is located at the eastern reach of the continent. Apparently none of the Legion zones are here (Suramar/Val’sharah/Azsuna) since they’d look too similar in this timeline. The few zones that we’ve seen before (Nazjatar, parts of Kalimdor) look even more different than the Draenor zones did compared to Outland.

New allied races based on extinct or critically endangered races found in the past. All of the allied races are neutral and can pick either faction. The ones I know about are dark trolls (they now look more like savage night elves with tusks), anshiir (a cat race with both ‘furry’ and humanoid versions playable - both count as the same race), titanborne (large stone people that are like bulkier vrykul) and potamu (Indian-inspired rhino-like race). There are less planned for 10.0 than were in BFA and I don’t know how many will actually be available at launch. There’s also minor new class customization in the vein of the green fire warlock stuff.

The main new advancement system is companions. You pick from one of five possible companions who you level up through different tasks and by collecting a new currency to spend on them. They each have their own skill tree which powers you up through them. They also join you in combat out in the world (NOT in instances). You have to gear your companion the same way you gear yourself. To others they appear as a no-name of the same general theme. The options are the Stormrage Brothers (as far as gear goes, they’re the same person), an honorbound exiled potamu warrior, a cured moonforged Titanborne, a highborne warlock lord, and dark troll “proto-monk.”

There are no Dragon Isles at launch, nor is there a big Light presence (outside of the Light being the likely force behind Elune’s actions).

I won’t answer any questions until after the official announcement.

Eh, seems interesting, but I can't swallow the "soft reboot" deal.

[Kiivar86]

The few zones that we’ve seen before (Nazjatar, parts of Kalimdor) look even more different than the Draenor zones did compared to Outland.

I mean, Nazjatar is almost completely underwater aesthetic, if the area is used in some time traveling of course it'd look different.

Anyway eh I doubt it.

That Empire of Dragons logo kinda ignited a fire in me though, won't lie.

[Revamp Man]

It actually makes sense with some info that came out super recently. If you follow Red Shirt Guy on twitter he managed to confirm that a lot of post Legion story with Sylvanas and how BFA/SL went was Afrasiabi burning down the house as he was being pushed out and Danuser was apparently trying to fix it with the Sylvanas redemption. It hasn't been the best so far obviously but it would give some reasoning behind saying Jailer was book 1 and why things like BFA cinematic Sylvanas doesnt match in game BFA Sylvanas at all. Plus if it's a soft reboot that would mean the 10th expansion, 11.0, would be free to do it's own thing.

That said Im 99% sure that leak is fake just that it makes more sense than you'd initially think for it to be a soft reboot.

If Sylvanas is removed from the story and spends time in the maw where there’s a time difference so she can disappear for 10.0 and come back in 11.0 completely changed

[Harbour]

I am not a Blizzard employee and I won’t risk saying what the position the person who told me this has. I don’t know the name of the expansion, its announcement date or release date.

The next expansion is focused on a now actively antagonistic Elune (likely corrupted - the goal is to help fix her, not kill her) changing history in the Kaldorei Empire. This is an actual time travel expansion and is actually set in our reality, not an AU, and is planned to lead to a soft reboot of the lore. The new landmass/dimension is called Eldre’thalas (the old name for Dire Maul is being repurposed as the name for the Kaldorei Empire). It is not the entirety of Ancient Kalimdor, just a section of it. There are eight dungeons at launch, two for each zone. The first raid is the savannah capital of the anshiir (lion/cat race).

The main enemy is Elune’s Moonforged forces. Minor enemies include the Nightmare (a subsection of Elune’s forces now – Light themed), the Infinite Dragonflight, a breakaway Silithid hive and an empire of Anshiir. Main characters in this expansion that we’ve already met before are Tyrande (main timeline Tyrande is a friend while past Tyrande is an antagonist), Kaldorei Queen Azshara, Ysera, Malfurion, and Illidan.

The main city is Zin’Azshari and it is neutral to both factions. It is located at the eastern reach of the continent. Apparently none of the Legion zones are here (Suramar/Val’sharah/Azsuna) since they’d look too similar in this timeline. The few zones that we’ve seen before (Nazjatar, parts of Kalimdor) look even more different than the Draenor zones did compared to Outland.

New allied races based on extinct or critically endangered races found in the past. All of the allied races are neutral and can pick either faction. The ones I know about are dark trolls (they now look more like savage night elves with tusks), anshiir (a cat race with both ‘furry’ and humanoid versions playable - both count as the same race), titanborne (large stone people that are like bulkier vrykul) and potamu (Indian-inspired rhino-like race). There are less planned for 10.0 than were in BFA and I don’t know how many will actually be available at launch. There’s also minor new class customization in the vein of the green fire warlock stuff.

The main new advancement system is companions. You pick from one of five possible companions who you level up through different tasks and by collecting a new currency to spend on them. They each have their own skill tree which powers you up through them. They also join you in combat out in the world (NOT in instances). You have to gear your companion the same way you gear yourself. To others they appear as a no-name of the same general theme. The options are the Stormrage Brothers (as far as gear goes, they’re the same person), an honorbound exiled potamu warrior, a cured moonforged Titanborne, a highborne warlock lord, and dark troll “proto-monk.”

There are no Dragon Isles at launch, nor is there a big Light presence (outside of the Light being the likely force behind Elune’s actions).

I won’t answer any questions until after the official announcement.

It honestly sounds extremely niche and leveling companion as a system completely kills my hype. I played all expansions except for MoP and i wont play this one certainly if its legit.
But its 100% fake given the reason above.
No one in their sanity will bring on the setting vastly detached from most known plot lines, especially after Shadowlands.
Elune hype was killed by Shadowlands, Illidan and Co being reused is waste of time, and nothing in this story fits the already built up lore (Light, Void, Dragon Isles).
And allied races list outside cat people sound unispiring.
And leveling companion instead of the player character itself would trigger the fanbase in rage.
Pretty terrible and fake'ish larping.

[Le Conceptuel]

It actually makes sense with some info that came out super recently. If you follow Red Shirt Guy on twitter he managed to confirm that a lot of post Legion story with Sylvanas and how BFA/SL went was Afrasiabi burning down the house as he was being pushed out and Danuser was apparently trying to fix it with the Sylvanas redemption. It hasn't been the best so far obviously but it would give some reasoning behind saying Jailer was book 1 and why things like BFA cinematic Sylvanas doesnt match in game BFA Sylvanas at all. Plus if it's a soft reboot that would mean the 10th expansion, 11.0, would be free to do it's own thing.

That said Im 99% sure that leak is fake just that it makes more sense than you'd initially think for it to be a soft reboot.

That's kind of funny—a million and one years of folks blaming Danuser for everything bad that's ever happened, and yet it's actually Afrasiabi who was responsible for some of this if this is true. Could you give me the link for confirmation?

And, of course, not be a skeptic but I'm sure it would behoove some folks to blame Afrasiabi, so we may want to take this with a grain of salt if it was said by Danny in particular. Afrasiabi strikes me as the kind of guy to do this, and it would be a very good sign for the future of the game if it was just him, but it would also be very easy to pin every unpopular decision on the evil guy no one likes anymore.

[Revamp Man]

That's kind of funny—a million and one years of folks blaming Danuser for everything bad that's ever happened, and yet it's actually Afrasiabi who was responsible for some of this if this is true. Could you give me the link for confirmation?

And, of course, not be a skeptic but I'm sure it would behoove some folks to blame Afrasiabi, so we may want to take this with a grain of salt if it was said by Danny in particular. Afrasiabi strikes me as the kind of guy to do this, and it would be a very good sign for the future of the game if it was just him, but it would also be very easy to pin every unpopular decision on the evil guy no one likes anymore.

It was stated by Alleria’s hearthstone VO

[Le Conceptuel]

It was stated by Alleria’s hearthstone VO

Ah, if that's the case, less bias I suppose.

- - - Updated - - -

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...qEWEydAZg&s=19


Here's the update thread with the sources listed as well as the original thread where he talked about it originally.

Assuming truth, this is a pretty big development. And thankful, too, since it means Danuser isn't as incompetent as we thought.

[Vakir]

I don't buy the Afrasiabi nonsense one bit. What vendetta and why? He's an easy name to drop because of his impropriety, but I don't think there's any real evidence a grown man would be busy caring about what a fictional character does when he was already clearly so busy harassing real women.

If there was an actual concrete reason given for that choice and what said vendetta even was, I might be able to swallow it, but Michelle Morrow is a Sylvanas stan through and through by her own admission, and I could not give any less of a fuck about what T&E say with such vague non-committals surrounding it.

Nevermind the fact that, Danuser memes aside, the entire creative process surrounding storytelling in a game as big as WoW is going to be collaborative. It required extremely talented artists, voice actors, and quest designers to create content surrounding that decision without anyone speaking up to request elaboration or point out that it may be a poor decision. This isn't something where Afrasiabi can dive at the magical keyboard and suddenly typed a paragraph about burning a tree and, whoops, sorry guys, that's the story now.

This feels like people just unwilling to accept that a character who was already poorly written and inconsistent post-Wrath just continued to fall apart and that they were cheering for garbage the whole time. The disappointment of the direction of Shadowlands is just the natural conclusion of a character the rules seldom applied to, with the soul-splitting just being a cherry on top that nobody could've predicted.

[Revamp Man]

I don't buy the Afrasiabi nonsense one bit. What vendetta and why? He's an easy name to drop because of his impropriety, but I don't think there's any real evidence a grown man would be busy caring about what a fictional character does when he was already clearly so busy harassing real women.

If there was an actual concrete reason given for that choice and what said vendetta even was, I might be able to swallow it, but Michelle Morrow is a Sylvanas stan through and through by her own admission, and I could not give any less of a fuck about what T&E say with such vague non-committals surrounding it.

Nevermind the fact that, Danuser memes aside, the entire creative process surrounding storytelling in a game as big as WoW is going to be collaborative. It required extremely talented artists, voice actors, and quest designers to create content surrounding that decision without anyone speaking up to request elaboration or point out that it may be a poor decision. This isn't something where Afrasiabi can dive at the magical keyboard and suddenly typed a paragraph about burning a tree and, whoops, sorry guys, that's the story now.

This feels like people just unwilling to accept that a character who was already poorly written and inconsistent post-Wrath just continued to fall apart and that they were cheering for garbage the whole time. The disappointment of the direction of Shadowlands is just the natural conclusion of a character the rules seldom applied to, with the soul-splitting just being a cherry on top that nobody could've predicted.

Apparently he was pissed because of what some guy (I can’t remember the name but he was a big shot) did to Garrosh’s story so he made the Teldrassil cinematic have no room for “she isn’t evil”

[Vakir]

Apparently he was pissed because of what some guy (I can’t remember the name but he was a big shot) did to Garrosh’s story so he made the Teldrassil cinematic have no room for “she isn’t evil”

I heard of the Garrosh statement before, but - did what to his story, exactly? Garrosh's trajectory was pretty telegraphed no matter what apologists of his say. Other than the absolutely wild shift from TBC to Wrath, Stonetalon was pretty much the only (in-game) exception to the rule with his characterization, and even that was hilarious in its presentation. "You can write this shit but you can't say it" level stuff.

The logic doesn't really flow - "Someone did something to my Garrosh story, for reasons, and therefore I'm going to do something to Sylvanas and her characterization, which will harm them, somehow, for reasons. This petty vendetta will also...be the impetus for an entire expansion for a game worked on by hundreds of people. Dozens will work on this exact scene and everyone will agree it's fine."

Yeah, no. This isn't a couple of people who did separate routes in a fan-made visual novel, these are people who ostensibly worked 40-60 hour weeks with one another.

[Revamp Man]

I heard of the Garrosh statement before, but - did what to his story, exactly? Garrosh's trajectory was pretty telegraphed no matter what apologists of his say. Other than the absolutely wild shift from TBC to Wrath, Stonetalon was pretty much the only (in-game) exception to the rule with his characterization, and even that was hilarious in its presentation. "You can write this shit but you can't say it" level stuff.

The logic doesn't really flow - "Someone did something to my Garrosh story, for reasons, and therefore I'm going to do something to Sylvanas and her characterization, which will harm them, somehow, for reasons. This petty vendetta will also...be the impetus for an entire expansion for a game worked on by hundreds of people. Dozens will work on this exact scene and everyone will agree it's fine."

Yeah, no. This isn't a couple of people who did separate routes in a fan-made visual novel, these are people who ostensibly worked 40-60 hour weeks with one another.

I don’t think it was as big as you think
The idea is he had the cinematic portrayed in a way to show her as a villain and had that same sentiment through her other moments

Retaliation for Garrosh being made a background character and then killed as an unrepentant asshole

I can believe it because it’s on par for people who have an inflated ego which is 90% of the WoW team

[BaumanKing]

It's funny how Danuser's apologists are scapegoating Afrasiabi, even though the story is even more crappier now with Danuser in full control. And don't tell me you can't blame him. He is a LEAD narrative designer. It's like saying that the movie is shit not because of the director, but because some random gaffer didn't do his job well.

[Vakir]

I don’t think it was as big as you think
The idea is he had the cinematic portrayed in a way to show her as a villain and had that same sentiment through her other moments

Retaliation for Garrosh being made a background character and then killed as an unrepentant asshole

I can believe it because it’s on par for people who have an inflated ego which is 90% of the WoW team

But Garrosh was a background character and killed as an asshole...after a literal public statement at BlizzCon that he wouldn't be a primary antagonist and that the plot of WoD would overtake him. As they said:

Now a couple things to note. So Garrosh, he’s not the main villain of this expansion, I want to make that clear. He is going to set things in motion and then they are going to spiral out of control, which is kind of awesome

Read here. The person saying it, Dave Kosak, literally has Alex sitting to his left when he says this. Even before WoD's entire scope was stepped back due to poor reception, Grom was the intended primary antagonist, and the entire structure of Nagrand's zone story is leading to Garrosh getting absolutely bodied, so it couldn't be the work of one individual spontaneously deciding that.

A team worked on the cinematic where he was imprisoned and a team worked on the cinematic where he was bolted into oblivion. Afrasiabi can't solely make the decision for Teldrassil to occur if most of the events of the expansion's progression are structured around it and her characterization carries throughout.

This is an easy and convenient way to wave away poor writing that's existed long, long before Teldrassil because cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable.

[Le Conceptuel]

I don't buy the Afrasiabi nonsense one bit. What vendetta and why? He's an easy name to drop because of his impropriety, but I don't think there's any real evidence a grown man would be busy caring about what a fictional character does when he was already clearly so busy harassing real women ( . . . ) (t)his isn't something where Afrasiabi can dive at the magical keyboard and suddenly typed a paragraph about burning a tree and, whoops, sorry guys, that's the story now.

This is precisely what I have been worried about—I would say that it may not be as difficult as you think to sabotage a storyline, though, since there can easily be ways for him to hamfist the direction of the story in his direction. It's not impossible, even if it seems improbable. He can't simply make a decision, sure, but he can find ways to kind of monopolize the whole thing.

There is also extraneous credibility granted because of Alleria's VA seemingly not having much of a reason to suggest this at all. Then, the fact that Blizzard even let her come out with this at all is odd, but I suppose they can't supervise anyone. Still, seems odd for someone to also reveal such crucial information when they're generally not irreplaceable in the corporate hierarchy.

[Revamp Man]

This is precisely what I have been worried about—I would say that it may not be as difficult as you think to sabotage a storyline, though, since there can easily be ways for him to hamfist the direction of the story in his direction. It's not impossible, even if it seems improbable. He can't simply make a decision, sure, but he can find ways to kind of monopolize the whole thing.

There is also extraneous credibility granted because of Alleria's VA seemingly not having much of a reason to suggest this at all. Then, the fact that Blizzard even let her come out with this at all is odd, but I suppose they can't supervise anyone. Still, seems odd for someone to also reveal such crucial information when they're generally not irreplaceable in the corporate hierarchy.

Well if they were to keep her from saying anything then it just takes one person to say “they are still protecting the abuser they fired”

Allowing her to talk then it becomes “the company isn’t incompetent it just had a guy abusing his power but all the bad guys are gone now so the company is better and the game is being fixed”

[Vakir]

This is precisely what I have been worried about—I would say that it may not be as difficult as you think to sabotage a storyline, though, since there can easily be ways for him to hamfist the direction of the story in his direction. It's not impossible, even if it seems improbable. He can't simply make a decision, sure, but he can find ways to kind of monopolize the whole thing.

He was the Creative Director, of course he can monopolize the whole thing.

He was also in charge during the time of Garrosh, so that's why I don't buy it's a vendetta. The simplest solution is the best one and the most likely: WoW has always coasted largely on spectacle at the expense of logic since the Wrathgate was (in my opinion, wrongfully) given positive reception. They took what worked and ran with it. Since then, every expansion begins and ends with "Wouldn't it be cool if..." moments driven entirely on shock as an increasingly unwieldy series of Red Weddings. Teldrassil was one such.

The reason I can't swallow this whole thing of Afrasiabi - bad choice of words? - is that Sylvanas' characterization is pretty enduring in the entirety of BFA. She is, as Metzen put it, "full Dick Dastardly" from basically start to finish. Almost like the character has been an increasing conga line of plot devices for drama until they hit the expansion where it was time to retire her.

Allowing her to talk then it becomes “the company isn’t incompetent it just had a guy abusing his power but all the bad guys are gone now so the company is better and the game is being fixed”

Yes, this is the example of bravery I expect in disclosure when abusers have been ousted - "my favorite fictional character wasn't written well." Some real "Fight Song" level stuff there, so brave. /s