Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Pheraz]

They shoudl either go all out an create a whole new planet for the next expansion or just go back to azeroth and keep is small. SL was just way to alien and conceptual imho.

Another planet can also be a bit down to earth (ironic hm^^) by being more classic fanatsy with a bit of scifi.

If we venture into lifelands or shit like that... idk... i think at some point i will stop caring about wows story completly. SL is allready a stretch for me. ut i can get on board becuase of sylvannas. logical conclusion and all that.

I don't think it is too alien - I think that at least two out of four covenants are weird. Maldraxxus is a plague/flesh zone in a realm for souls. Why? Ardenweald makes sense with this whole wildseed/reborn stuff. The whole angelic theme with Kyrian also works. Revendreth is nicely exectued but what's the point of those vampires there? This xpac also misses to introduce "clear enemy" races. Sometimes the plague guys are good, then they are bad, then the bone guys are good, then the flesh guys. Half of the vampires is good the other half evil. Why?
I think the best zone in terms of execution of the theme is still the maw. It is too small, but the theme fits to the xpac and to the whole idea of bodyless-souls. Many nice concepts in SL but not good executed overall. I can't see how 9.1 would change this.

[loras]

I’d say Shadowlands’ problem was that it wasn’t alien enough. All of the zones could easily have been on Azeroth in a prior expansion and I wouldn’t have questioned it.

Thing is it struck a weird sort of "uncanny valley" for me,neither alien enough to be a believable realm of death, nor mundane enough to feel properly connected to Azeroth.

Ironically Bastion had both the most touching stuff and the most teeth-grinding nuisances of all zones to me, thematically.

Like it legitimatrly sort of feels like an afterlife and there are characters there with genuinely understandable motivations and psychological reactions and stuff, not talking about any big ones in particular mind you.

But by the time i was done with it Maldraxxus' "EEEEEEEeeeeryyyyy wazzaaa!!!" style of nonsensical... nonsense was a refreshing contrast with Bastion's mind numbing (pun partially intended).

Then there is Ardenweald which just feels like a misplaced piece of the Emerald dream, Oribos which feels like a misplaced hippie-Titan facility and Revendreth which... eh... sort of works by then. It's at least as good as the rest.

Oh and the maw is tedious but sort of does work as a prison, but not really as a hell. There is much too much final destruction going on there, much too much planning forward to have any sense of eternity.


Oh i got carried away; i agree they should stay closer to home next time, either "Earth" or "Azeroth" will do (Draenor is good too). Their imagination really falls flat otherwise, especially regarding the natives of such realms.

[Sondrelk]

Personally I found that I don't like the Shadowlands because it feelss so disconnected from Azeroth. Yes there are a few characters we know, but rarely anyone we know from WoW, let alone recently.
It should also be mentioned that both BfA and Legion were good at one specific thing which Shadowlands really isnt so far. And that was sending us back to old areas we know to give at least a tiny sense of the world progressing. We are for the most part stuck narratively in the Shadowlands, which compunds with all the alien landscape to almost make it feel like a different game.

BfA and Legion had us go to areas we either knew or which looked familiar. Secondly it gave us ample opportunities to travel back to old zones to get that sense of progression in the world.
Shadowlands both looks alien, and also doesnt look like anything we would have imagined the Shadowlands to look like given what we know, so it is hard to connect our perception of the Shadowlands with what we knew from before. Compare this to Zandalar, which we had never seen but most people likely imagined to be a jungle island, which we had seen before.


I guess I am rambling here, but the short of it is that I don't think Shadowlands makes a good enough effort to link the story to Azeroth. We have characters we know, but they are far enough between that we are mostly looking at unknown characters in an unknown place fighting against a villain we had no idea about before this expansion.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I’d say Shadowlands’ problem was that it wasn’t alien enough. All of the zones could easily have been on Azeroth in a prior expansion and I wouldn’t have questioned it.

Agreed: I certainly don't see them as particularily out there..

Revedreth could have been at the heart of a bunch of gilneas styled zones, it's just a gothic castle with vampires. They could have added this right next to gilneas and made it a story about the big bad evil vampire lord terrorizing the peasants and it wouldn't have looked out of place.
Maldraxxus is just a Plaguelands/Scourge themed zone. Would fit into the EK or NR.
Ardenweald is just a magic filled version of Ashenvale. You could stich it onto Kalimdor or the broken shore and no one would notice.
Bastion is probably the most out there, as it's pastel colors and feathery flora and fauna don't have much relation to stuff on Azeroth. It would easily fit on Outland/Draenor though, let alone Mc'aree.
The maw looks like a Deadwind Pass with some extra ruins.
Oribos is is a mixture of Titan themes with a bunch of nordic themes that could also fit the dwarves.

The story of visiting the afterlife is over the top for a setting like WoW, but the actual zones aren't that alien at all.

[Nyel]

I used to think that the final questline would need to show up on the PTR before we could safely assume that the PTR would be close to done, but on reflection I wonder if Blizzard are intentioanlly keeping that last one hidden because there are potentially important plot revelations there, for instance whether Sylvanas survived or not, or in that case where she is and what she is doing.

So really all we are waiting for now is confirmation of the end of season, which could be today or tomorrow at a slight stretch. Otherwise I do genuinely believe we are closing in on a 9.1 launch this month.

Why though? Has this happened before? I'm not sure. Some hidden Mythic phases of final bosses I guess have been kept a secret, but something like an entire story campaign?

Maybe the PTR isn't just there yet and we're not looking for a release in June. I guess we'll get the release date tomorrow. If they're announcing 9.2 as well... that's what I question.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Them holding the last questline back could make sense. If they release it 4 weeks after the raid anyway I could see them avoiding major spoilers. Not to mention I think the resolution of Slyvanas' plotline will be a major controversy anyway, which will cost them customers no matter how it turns out. They've written themselves into a corner and getting out of it will never be satisfying to anyone. Hence spoiling it now might prevent many from even bothering to check out the patch.

[Kiivar86]

I agree on the whole "Shadowlands doesn't feel alien enough" feeling. Only Bastion really feels like an afterlife-like area. Ardenweald is beautiful but if I knew nothing I'd have assumed it just a more magical section of Ashenvale.

Speaking of, Ardenwead, for a place that's supposed to reflect Autumn and Winter, doesn't feel like much of either to me. I still love the zone the most of the four, but it really could do with some more "chilly" feeling to it.

[Sondrelk]

Why though? Has this happened before? I'm not sure. Some hidden Mythic phases of final bosses I guess have been kept a secret, but something like an entire story campaign?

Maybe the PTR isn't just there yet and we're not looking for a release in June. I guess we'll get the release date tomorrow. If they're announcing 9.2 as well... that's what I question.

Pretty much the entire plotline of 9.2.5 was hidden to avoid spoilers.

It doesn't happen often or even consistently but it seems like Blizzard are capable of hiding twists.

I do also find it interesting in that both this and the previous hidden questline would in that case be heavily about the fate of Sylvanas.

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Them holding the last questline back could make sense. If they release it 4 weeks after the raid anyway I could see them avoiding major spoilers. Not to mention I think the resolution of Slyvanas' plotline will be a major controversy anyway, which will cost them customers no matter how it turns out. They've written themselves into a corner and getting out of it will never be satisfying to anyone. Hence spoiling it now might prevent many from even bothering to check out the patch.

Thinking about it this is pretty much the exact same case as with 9.2.5 where Sylvanas fled the Horde. It was controversial because players still wanted to believe she was right for some reason and it has major impact on the rest of the expansion, in that case leading to the faction war being entirely dropped in favor of N'zoth as the final boss.

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I agree on the whole "Shadowlands doesn't feel alien enough" feeling. Only Bastion really feels like an afterlife-like area. Ardenweald is beautiful but if I knew nothing I'd have assumed it just a more magical section of Ashenvale.

Speaking of, Ardenwead, for a place that's supposed to reflect Autumn and Winter, doesn't feel like much of either to me. I still love the zone the most of the four, but it really could do with some more "chilly" feeling to it.

I don't know how they could realistically make it more alien without completely losing the tiny bit of grounding the zones would need for constant traversing.

Also you are completely right on the Ardwnweald criticism. It really does just look like a blue forest. It really should have looked more autumnal or even winter like. Not to the level where you would imagine it being cold necessarily, but enough so that you feel like you are in constant autumn and winter as opposed to spring and summer in the Emerald Dream.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Btw, is the encrypted video for the Sylvanas "kill" in the game already? Or is there only the model thingy? The holdup could also be that they haven't finished the video yet. In SL beta it felt like production these also stalled for the longest time. I could see this being the case now as well.

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Also you are completely right on the Ardwnweald criticism. It really does just look like a blue forest. It really should have looked more autumnal or even winter like. Not to the level where you would imagine it being cold necessarily, but enough so that you feel like you are in constant autumn and winter as opposed to spring and summer in the Emerald Dream.

Absolutely, for someone called the winter queen that reigns over the second half of the circle of (wild god) life this feels nothing like it. They kinda lost themselves in the fae magic-nature theme.

[Nyel]

Pretty much the entire plotline of 9.2.5 was hidden to avoid spoilers.

It doesn't happen often or even consistently but it seems like Blizzard are capable of hiding twists.

I do also find it interesting in that both this and the previous hidden questline would in that case be heavily about the fate of Sylvanas.

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Thinking about it this is pretty much the exact same case as with 9.2.5 where Sylvanas fled the Horde. It was controversial because players still wanted to believe she was right for some reason and it has major impact on the rest of the expansion, in that case leading to the faction war being entirely dropped in favor of N'zoth as the final boss.

Was it hidden though? I thought we knew about Saurfangs death before the patch was released and that was pretty much the entire "secret" thing about that patch?

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Absolutely, for someone called the winter queen that reigns over the second half of the circle of (wild god) life this feels nothing like it. They kinda lost themselves in the fae magic-nature theme.

I mean forest is entirely possible, just make it a... frozen forest? Like with giant ice blocks where every tree and plant is frozen or whatever. They could have done a lot of things yet they gave us blue Teldrassil.

[Kokolums]

They shoudl either go all out an create a whole new planet for the next expansion or just go back to azeroth and keep is small. SL was just way to alien and conceptual imho.

Blizz can't create interesting characters anymore. And most of the interesting characters from the past they turn into villains and / or have been killed off already. Kel'Thuzad should have been in the main villain of SL, not stone cold. KT actually has an interesting backstory and it would be interesting to see where it leads. But Stone Cold climbing chains to stunner the Arbiter is boring.

[Sondrelk]

Was it hidden though? I thought we knew about Saurfangs death before the patch was released and that was pretty much the entire "secret" thing about that patch?

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I mean forest is entirely possible, just make it a... frozen forest? Like with giant ice blocks where every tree and plant is frozen or whatever. They could have done a lot of things yet they gave us blue Teldrassil.

From what I remember we only knew about Saurfangs death because his death animation was found. Not to mention his death was clearly telegraphed.

I do remember the questline was encrypted though.

[Wangming]

I mean forest is entirely possible, just make it a... frozen forest? Like with giant ice blocks where every tree and plant is frozen or whatever. They could have done a lot of things yet they gave us blue Teldrassil.

Drustvar would have made a much better domain for somebody called a winter queen. Or a zone that looks like Drustvar anyway.

[Black Rider]

What the hell is happening with 9.1 so long after the release.
Damn I thought after the Legion it was fixed.
The patch timing was normal.
Now this

[Sondrelk]

What the hell is happening with 9.1 so long after the release.
Damn I thought after the Legion it was fixed.
The patch timing was normal.
Now this

Something happened called a global pandemic changing society almost to the core fro the last year and a bit. You might have heard of it if you looked outside during that time.

And of course the California forest fire that happened last year.

[Makabreska]

They shoudl either go all out an create a whole new planet for the next expansion or just go back to azeroth and keep is small. SL was just way to alien and conceptual imho.

Another planet can also be a bit down to earth (ironic hm^^) by being more classic fanatsy with a bit of scifi.

If we venture into lifelands or shit like that... idk... i think at some point i will stop caring about wows story completly. SL is allready a stretch for me. ut i can get on board becuase of sylvannas. logical conclusion and all that.

A whole new planet is not doable, simply because we wouldn't be able to explore it all and the developer time and costs would be much greater. Sure, it could be be smaller size, but we already had that in form of Outlands and Draenor.

I personally like alien SL, simply because Legion and BfA zones were very down to earth (sure we had Argus, but that was mostly a black/green wasteland.

[TheFirstOnes]

What the hell is happening with 9.1 so long after the release.
Damn I thought after the Legion it was fixed.
The patch timing was normal.
Now this

COVID, and some other things.

Even then, 9.1 is like...2-3 months later than the usual patch. The patch itself is literally almost done. Like 1-2 weeks of polishing, and it should be good. Heard some tracks in Korthia aswell. So, that's a good sign.

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Like I said before, if the Pantheon of Life isn't part of 9.2...

I'll eat my shorts. THERE IS NO WAY 9.2 DOESN'T INVOLVE THEM IN A WAY SOMEHOW!

[Hellspawn]

Like I said before, if the Pantheon of Life isn't part of 9.2...

I'll eat my shorts. THERE IS NO WAY 9.2 DOESN'T INVOLVE THEM IN A WAY SOMEHOW!

The video does not really change anything about what we already know.

Life involvement is possible I guess but I don't think the chance for that is that high. For me, the Tyrande/Elune Ark is its own thing and it may be closed off with some minor stuff or was the night elf heritage quest chain.

[Varodoc]

Am I the only one who doesn't have a clue about what the "zomg Pantheon of Life!!!!" is and frankly couldn't care any less?

[TheFirstOnes]

The video does not really change anything about what we already know.

Life involvement is possible I guess but I don't think the chance for that is that high. For me, the Tyrande/Elune Ark is its own thing and it may be closed off with some minor stuff or was the night elf heritage quest chain.

Why would it be its own thing? Tyrande is a major part in SL, the Eternal Ones aren't gonna be enough to stop Zovaal in 9.1, and lots of things have been implied/built up regarding Life's involvement in this shit.

And the Dreadlord plot isn't dealt with either. We still need to stop that Dreadlord in the Planes of Life, as well as deal with the shit with Denathrius and co.

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Am I the only one who doesn't have a clue about what the "Pantheon of Life" is and frankly couldn't care any less?

It's something that is theorized HEAVILY by the Brokers regarding Ardenweald's functions, and serves as part of the main official previews on the Amazon page for the Grimoire.

Not to mention this is released around the time of 9.1's release, so...idk bud.



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Also, do you care about anything this expac? Seems more like you're just waiting for the Void Lords tbh.