Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[AngerFork]

It's been clear that many players were strongly unhappy with some aspects of the game; for example: it's pretty clear from the majority of players both in hard core raiding and casual farming that there is an overengineering of the subsystems in the game; e.g. nobody had any freaking clue - in-game - how the most important upgrade of the entire expansion (legendaries) interacted in regards to soul ash requirements which was depended on the ilevel of the base item which was in turn depended on the further mats needed in later patches and in general you need a personal accountant googling wowhead for you every 10 minutes to understand 80% of the important subsystems in the game.

I suspect that the next expansion might do an extreme return to being basic; for example no more subsystems that aren't 100% explained by the UI itself and they need no much wowhead googling for them; or raiding and dungeons are mainly about who is doing the hardest and not who is a good googler of subsystems and then farming the world which has nothing to do with instances and skill ..but I don't know (it may just be Legion V4).

I suspect they'll mention something like this when announcing 10.0 & promise to go back to some basics, but the question is how far will they actually go with it. I see it as similar to how Class Ability updates were presented to us with SL. They mentioned a few abilities which they de-pruned and talked about how each class should feel better. Really though, they mostly brought back a handful of abilities for a few classes, moved some abilities to baseline, & called it a day. The classes definitely feel better, but they still aren't quite as intricate as they were pre-WoD.

I could absolutely see them promising to get rid of borrowed power & return to basics, but only take that halfway & instead tie that borrowed power into gear or some infinitely grindable currency instead.

[Nagawithlegs]

The problem is they need to strike a balance in making a world with little systems, and a world that you play in for a while that makes you buy subs.

9.1 does it with the weekly updates to the story, as well as procedural upgrades to the soulbinds. But once you run out of the campaign there is very little reason for people who don’t raid or M+ to play unless they want to collect something.

Is there even any feature besides Housing that could keep those players, or should Blizzard just build around the players that leave?

[Dracullus]

Though, i will say that they haven't had a chance yet to act on the feedback they got from Classic WoW. So, it might be a good opportunity for that.

They had, they did and it made game worse. Slow gearing and the Maw say hi.

[Nagawithlegs]

They had, they did and it made game worse. Slow gearing and the Maw say hi.

I've seen people 50/50 on slow gearing though, especially now where you can easily get (lower level) gear through world content.

[Lady Atia]

I've seen people 50/50 on slow gearing though, especially now where you can easily get (lower level) gear through world content.

No clue how anyone can like the terrible gameplay of clearing a raid and getting only 1-2 items which often aren't even stuff you want haha.

[username993720]

They had, they did and it made game worse. Slow gearing and the Maw say hi.

Not exactly.
They said that by the time Classic launched, Shadowlands was already in the works.

[Soikona]

No clue how anyone can like the terrible gameplay of clearing a raid and getting only 1-2 items which often aren't even stuff you want haha.

I did a full HC clear, and the first 3 bosses on mythic. I got two pieces of loot, both of which were traded to guildies.

I opened my vault this week, after 10 dungeons, it was all belts. I got a belt last week.

[Dracullus]

Not exactly.
They said that by the time Classic launched, Shadowlands was already in the works.

Zones, quests, story outline of course. But system details were reaction both for Classic and even 8.3. For example only after people were pissed with corruption they decided "let loot be loot".

It's visible in Anima and soulbinds. Technically it's looks like artifact, clearly they planned for AP 3.0 (artifact power, azerite power, anima power), but at some point it was decided people are fed up with grind.

Btw, what else they could take from Classic? It's not like Classic grab masses beyond first months, it's even more clear in TBC. During SL reveal situation was different.

[Revamp Man]

Zones, quests, story outline of course. But system details were reaction both for Classic and even 8.3. For example only after people were pissed with corruption they decided "let loot be loot".

It's visible in Anima and soulbinds. Technically it's looks like artifact, clearly they planned for AP 3.0 (artifact power, azerite power, anima power), but at some point it was decided people are fed up with grind.

Btw, what else they could take from Classic? It's not like Classic grab masses beyond first months, it's even more clear in TBC. During SL reveal situation was different.

If 10.0 can bring back ML I’ll sub on 3 accounts for years

[Lady Atia]

If 10.0 can bring back ML I’ll sub on 3 accounts for years

But why? Masterloot only let to drama in guilds, and even more drama in pugs. If they should change loot they should prohibit split runs during the first id's, but no need for Masterloot in 2021 lol.

[Yarathir]

I wonder how long until 9.2 info. August?

Well, there's probably a 9.1.5 to go first.

[Nyel]

The problem is they need to strike a balance in making a world with little systems, and a world that you play in for a while that makes you buy subs.

9.1 does it with the weekly updates to the story, as well as procedural upgrades to the soulbinds. But once you run out of the campaign there is very little reason for people who don’t raid or M+ to play unless they want to collect something.

Is there even any feature besides Housing that could keep those players, or should Blizzard just build around the players that leave?

Horizontal progression that stays forever, something other MMORPGs did (Champion Points in ESO). Offering exciting side content that doesn't get trashed every new tier (FF XIV). They can do things as other MMORPGs have done, the question is if they want to. At this point, I doubt it. They seem dead set on their recent development where every newly introduced tier completely devaluates everything that came before it. That's the biggest offence in my opinion.

[epigramx]

I did a full HC clear, and the first 3 bosses on mythic. I got two pieces of loot, both of which were traded to guildies.

I opened my vault this week, after 10 dungeons, it was all belts. I got a belt last week.

"Immersion!". Randomness must be eliminated in everything in the game, including damage and healing.

[Revamp Man]

But why? Masterloot only let to drama in guilds, and even more drama in pugs. If they should change loot they should prohibit split runs during the first id's, but no need for Masterloot in 2021 lol.

The latest master loot required a guild group so if pugs ran into drama because of it that’s their fault

I want it back because I’m tired of wasted loot
I’m tired of getting a polearm that is a huge upgrade for a guildie but due to the fact I have no polearm of equal or higher ilvl I can’t trade it and since I use two 1h I’ll never use it

I’m tired of getting an offhand that I wanna trade to a guildie because my heal spec uses a staff

I’m tired of not being in control of my loot because blizz changed a system that 90% of the public complaints were disproved on the forums
“My guild took this loot and gave it to an officer because he was RL friends with the guild master” getting exposed as “actually we gave it to him because you got two upgrades and died 30 seconds into the fight”

It’s 2021 and we have minimal control over our loot because “trials deserve loot too” which was immediately destroyed the moment anyone with a brain rubbed two brain cells together and then “we don’t want players to feel pressured to trade loot” yes because you can’t just say no

[username993720]

Zones, quests, story outline of course. But system details were reaction both for Classic and even 8.3. For example only after people were pissed with corruption they decided "let loot be loot".

It's visible in Anima and soulbinds. Technically it's looks like artifact, clearly they planned for AP 3.0 (artifact power, azerite power, anima power), but at some point it was decided people are fed up with grind.

Btw, what else they could take from Classic? It's not like Classic grab masses beyond first months, it's even more clear in TBC. During SL reveal situation was different.

The whole distinct approaches between the two games, that's what.
Community, RPG elements, simplicity, open world and all those things associated with the early game.

[Revamp Man]

Well, there's probably a 9.1.5 to go first.

That might hit in October
I’m guessing they are going to have the.x.5 patches in the halfway mark of each tier

The dom gem drop rate will be increased or you will be able to just buy them
Hopefully they finally add the SL intro skip

[Dracullus]

The whole distinct approaches between the two games, that's what.
Community, RPG elements, simplicity, open world and all those things associated with the early game.

That's just bunch of empty words and you know it.

I'm afraid when you'll try to be more specific magic can fade away. For example, more rpg elements - seriously you think people would love return of buying skills (with ranks), auto attack to level new weapon or resist gear?

Next, open world - ???. What's open world in vanilla, few long quests that take forever, almost no open world activity on max level, sloooooow travel?

Horizontal progression that stays forever, something other MMORPGs did (Champion Points in ESO). Offering exciting side content that doesn't get trashed every new tier (FF XIV). They can do things as other MMORPGs have done, the question is if they want to. At this point, I doubt it. They seem dead set on their recent development where every newly introduced tier completely devaluates everything that came before it. That's the biggest offence in my opinion.

I'm with you for more evergreen content, but you lost me on horizontal progression. Imagine new raid is coming but some older piece is just better. Imagine returning players having to reclear more and more raids as expansion progress. Maybe it works better in game with more relaxed approach like ESO, but WoW community would make it a nightmare. In WoW many love more focused progression.

Core of game is good, otherwise it would be dead years ago. But they need build around it not with 1-2 big gimmicks every expac (like islands, warfronts, torghast, garrison, etc.), but 3-4 small gimmicks every patch, something like Deaths of Chromie. More variety would make game more dynamic.

Proper difficulty old raids with cosmetic rewards could work, although it can't be same rewards, many get used to easy transmog runs, people already riot when you can't solo Legion raids 4 years after launch. Also it would be just more content for raiders, I think in general they are satisfied in game, even if they complain a lot.

Unlike many others I think expansion exclusive progression systems are necessary evil, but Blizzard spend waaay to much time on them. It should be just flashy points and new skills without any choice (but spec/class). Making tons of legendary, conduits, etc. is just pure waste of time (designing and trying to balance it every patch), people always pick best one and forget about it.

And of course, return to Legion patch cycle. Quantity is imporant too.

[huth]

MOTHER also was quite robot-y.

No more than other Titan stuff. She's rather stiff and unused to social interaction, but not fundamentally incapable and she has a personality. This guardian lacks that.
Should probably have said "just a robot". MOTHER clearly has a robot body, but she also has a true AI and a will of her own. The Guardian is just a machine.

[Lady Atia]

It's almost like they tried to solve this with Artifact Power or something.

But artifact power didn't stay forever, that's the problem with it. If they had kept artifact weapons and just added both new skins aswell as cosmetic boss weapon skin drops, well that would have been a horizontal progression that stays forever instead of the borrowed power we got.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

People don't seem to realize that 10.0.0 is just a number. Juts like level 100 was just a number.

Though, i will say that they haven't had a chance yet to act on the feedback they got from Classic WoW. So, it might be a good opportunity for that.

Just like WoW's imploding sub count and the number of influencers jumping ship to the competition is "just a number." </s>



Sure, 10.0 doesn't have to mean anything, but the game's dying. Legitimately, and not only due to the News We Cannot Discuss. They need to do something to radically shift the trajectory the game is on, and with a 2-year expansion cycle 10.0 is their last chance.