Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lightforged]

The Arbiter sorts all dead souls from every planet in the cosmos, as well as every planet in every alternate reality. The sheer amount of anima flowing into the Shadowlands is staggering.

How many people actually died at Teldrassil? A few thousand? Maybe a hundred thousand?

The drought is on the scale of multiple universes. A few thousand souls - even the best souls from Elune's chosen people - are not going to stem the drought in any meaningful way.

This entire cut scene seems to be created to make help minimize Sylvanas' atrocity.

[Makabreska]

I watched recent Preach video and honestly I'm pissed. He put narration that Blizzard actively destroy game for people like him (mythic raiders). Blizzard did terrible mistake in Shadowlands.. but it was LISTENING to people like Preach.

Who told Torghast has amazing gameplay (and in Alpha you climbed like 70 floors, not 5)? Who told that "loot should matter" will be amazing? Who was against ANY grind for power outside raids? Who praised 8.3 world content design? (Hell, Preach even praised early WoD, but that's ancient times).

You are wrong here. He loved early alpha Torghast implementation, where you could get many crazy strong builds and just have fun, not the nerfed version they served us. People wanted loot to matter, but Blizz went too far with scarcity of it, making PvP best way to gear up. I don't really like Preach, but let's not be dishonest here.

[Dracullus]

You are wrong here. He loved early alpha Torghast implementation, where you could get many crazy strong builds and just have fun, not the nerfed version they served us. People wanted loot to matter, but Blizz went too far with scarcity of it, making PvP best way to gear up. I don't really like Preach, but let's not be dishonest here.

Wasn't this fun part came after you grind X floors and just got absurd power? It's not like there were different abilities on Beta.

And loot scarcity was obvious consequence of no gimmicks on loot, otherwise everyone would be bis geared in 2-3 weeks. We were told by years that WoW will be awesome again if you will work for you loot in hard content and earning bis piece will feel amazing. Turns out - surprise, surprise - even almost Vanilla style loot doesn't turn on 15 years veterans like it did when they were teenagers. And rest people are stuck with this gear system.

[ExiHext]

You are wrong here. He loved early alpha Torghast implementation, where you could get many crazy strong builds and just have fun, not the nerfed version they served us. People wanted loot to matter, but Blizz went too far with scarcity of it, making PvP best way to gear up. I don't really like Preach, but let's not be dishonest here.

Yep, that's right. I watched like three preach vids at the start of SL (before I realized I can't satnd him) and I remember him saying that the Torghast that was implemented was bad and had nothing to do with alpha-Torghast.

[Shoggoth]

I'm just waiting for the big reveal that the Jailer indeed is not our enemy but our friend and ally that's coming soon. Because you know, all he did was for the better and to actually save us. *sigh*

I mean, the Shadowlands are terrible and the gods treat their favored mortals like cattle. Maybe he and sylvanas did want to set us free after all.

[huth]

This entire cut scene seems to be created to make help minimize Sylvanas' atrocity.

Hardly, since Sylvanas knew they were going to the Maw the whole time. Her part of things isn't at all affected by this.

[Ersula]

Hardly, since Sylvanas knew they were going to the Maw the whole time. Her part of things isn't at all affected by this.

Yes. But since (if they ever actually intend to explain why everything is going to the maw) they have implied that the Arbiter going to sleep was not caused by the jailer, rather something he just took advantage of, Sylvanas working to unmake & remake reality was really the only solution, at least from a mortal perspective.

This story is extremely messy. Nearly every bit of compelling character writing has some other detail that contradicts it: Sylvanas had no reason to trust the other covenant leaders over the jailer, oh but she didn't have her soul so all that time they had her & Anduin waxing philosophical didn't matter. Also Elune wanted all those elves to die. What a clusterfrick. Did they actually think the Sylvanas or Tyrande fans would enjoy this?

[Tezra1520]

I just want next xpac to go back to Azeroth, Dragon Isles, they better be sky islands, and we better get some original, dragon themed class. This cosmic shit needs to stay on the horizon.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

???

We know why she didn't do anything. So the souls could fix the draught. Did people not watch the cinematic?

We understand Blizz has given us a reason, but as it is a stupid reason we are lambasting their writing team.... again.



Like I hate to say "the writing team is crap and needs to be turned over" like we seem to say every other expansion, but I'm running out of ways to excuse the god awful storytelling of BFA and Shadowlands. It's growing increasingly apparent the problem is the story team once again is crap and needs to be turned over. Either Golden's actually a sham that can only write novels, or someone higher up the food chain is giving her crap to work with.

[Sondrelk]

We understand Blizz has given us a reason, but as it is a stupid reason we are lambasting their writing team.... again.



Like I hate to say "the writing team is crap and needs to be turned over" like we seem to say every other expansion, but I'm running out of ways to excuse the god awful storytelling of BFA and Shadowlands. It's growing increasingly apparent the problem is the story team once again is crap and needs to be turned over. Either Golden's actually a sham that can only write novels, or someone higher up the food chain is giving her crap to work with.

The writing being crap makes sense once you realize how they make it.

They don't write it in one go, but rather as a continuum. By this time the writers are well into 9.2, which has to deal with not just the fallout of what they have already written, what they have already starting working on for 9.3, or even 10.0, but most importantly what it is too late to change for said patch.

Each misstep makes the subsequent ones worse. And once you stack these missteps up it adds up quick.

[Makabreska]

We understand Blizz has given us a reason, but as it is a stupid reason we are lambasting their writing team.... again.



Like I hate to say "the writing team is crap and needs to be turned over" like we seem to say every other expansion, but I'm running out of ways to excuse the god awful storytelling of BFA and Shadowlands. It's growing increasingly apparent the problem is the story team once again is crap and needs to be turned over. Either Golden's actually a sham that can only write novels, or someone higher up the food chain is giving her crap to work with.

Oh I'm pretty sure that's the least of WoW problems right now. :^)

[Cosmic Janitor]

We understand Blizz has given us a reason, but as it is a stupid reason we are lambasting their writing team.... again.



Like I hate to say "the writing team is crap and needs to be turned over" like we seem to say every other expansion, but I'm running out of ways to excuse the god awful storytelling of BFA and Shadowlands. It's growing increasingly apparent the problem is the story team once again is crap and needs to be turned over. Either Golden's actually a sham that can only write novels, or someone higher up the food chain is giving her crap to work with.

Golden supposedly only writes dialog and extension material (across multiple blizzard titles), the story direction should be in Danuser's team, so as much as I think Golden is the most overrated writer in all of Blizzard, she shouldn't be the one responsible for this abhorrent mess. Not to mention even if we take the garbage story and pretend it isn't awful half of the time, then the presentation and quest design is still severely lacking, which hould be yet another department.

[Ivarr]

I suspect that the next expansion might do an extreme return to being basic; for example no more subsystems that aren't 100% explained by the UI itself and they need no much wowhead googling for them; or raiding and dungeons are mainly about who is doing the hardest and not who is a good googler of subsystems and then farming the world which has nothing to do with instances and skill ..but I don't know (it may just be Legion V4).

I doubt it. 'Systems' are there to lengthen the actual content. It's the water poured with the wine. It's the lettuce in the caesar salad. Without systems, Blizzard would have to develop actual content.

[Nyel]

I mean, the Shadowlands are terrible and the gods treat their favored mortals like cattle. Maybe he and sylvanas did want to set us free after all.

Absolutely. I thought the Eternal Ones were incredibly idiotic and among the dumbest lore characters in Warcraft, but hey, why not add Elune to that mix. Makes the picture complete.

- - - Updated - - -

I doubt it. 'Systems' are there to lengthen the actual content. It's the water poured with the wine. It's the lettuce in the caesar salad. Without systems, Blizzard would have to develop actual content.

Their system > content approach failed in BfA and it failed even more in Shadowlands, which is nicknamed Systemlands for a reason. The next expansion has to have a vast scope, an enticing system without dozens of subsystems and just a lot of content. If not, bye World of Warcraft. This time they’ll sink the ship if they do nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

The writing being crap makes sense once you realize how they make it.

They don't write it in one go, but rather as a continuum. By this time the writers are well into 9.2, which has to deal with not just the fallout of what they have already written, what they have already starting working on for 9.3, or even 10.0, but most importantly what it is too late to change for said patch.

Each misstep makes the subsequent ones worse. And once you stack these missteps up it adds up quick.

And that’s why we need tabula rasa and back to basics. And entirely new story. WoW is god awful in telling a story that spans over more than one expansion. They aimed to be as good as FFXIV when it comes to storytelling and massively failed, so they just should abandon this concept.

Get rid of the whole mess that Shadowlands was in its last patch and let’s just move on. I don’t want to bring a revamp or time skip back to the discussion, but this would really clear the table for the future. Away with all the shit they accumulated in BfA and Shadowlands and start a new journey with new heroes and threats.

[rainhard]

Wonder if the class sets of 9.2 (if they happen) will be themed off the sepulcher and the first ones combined with the class themes, feel like theres a lot of creative potential if they go with that direction, since the theme is completely new, fresh and unexplored.

[Kayze]

Because the mounts look cool? Seriously, if you think anyone uses a mount "to show of" you have some real issues. These are just pixxels. Stop getting offended from other peoples fun, thanks.

Jesus, do you have a reading comprehension issue!?

Being against a LOCAL toggle means you WANT people to be forced to look at the mount you purchased and all ridiculous animations that may or may not even relate to Warcraft. Period. It doesn't get rid of store mounts and doesn't 'turn them off' for everyone. So yes, opposing this is directly to show off.

Maybe people want to enjoy the actual fantasy of the game and not everyone's need to be a sparkly unicorn so they feel special about themselves. Such an ironic argument that it's "just pixels" and "stop getting offended from other peoples fun" ... Jesus.

[therumblings]

Maybe people want to enjoy the actual fantasy of the game.

I know right, next thing you know people will be running around on giant hands or a big flying brain. Damn those store mounts!

[AngerFork]

And that’s why we need tabula rasa and back to basics. And entirely new story. WoW is god awful in telling a story that spans over more than one expansion. They aimed to be as good as FFXIV when it comes to storytelling and massively failed, so they just should abandon this concept.

Get rid of the whole mess that Shadowlands was in its last patch and let’s just move on. I don’t want to bring a revamp or time skip back to the discussion, but this would really clear the table for the future. Away with all the shit they accumulated in BfA and Shadowlands and start a new journey with new heroes and threats.

I'd argue it's less about telling a story that spans more than one expansion and more just how they tell their stories in each expansion. Legion was simple: fight off a Legion invasion as a member of your class hall, then take the fight to them. There were a couple small side stories, but it was straightforward. BfA instead tried to do too many things in one expansion with the war, Sylvanas vs Saurfang, Nazjatar & Ny'alotha. Shadowlands feels like it's just trying to retcon everything into Zovaal & make him a massive villain, but no one has sold for him so he just feels fake and unimpressive.

Blizz can tell good stories across multiple expansions, they IMO did just that with how Garrosh was presented from BC to WoD. But that in part was because they started him small & built him into the character he was rather than shoving him down our throats as they've done with Zovaal. Same thing with Legion. We got Wrathion in Cata who showed his vision of a Legion invasion in MoP which got it's trigger at the end of WoD with Gul'dan. By the time Legion came around, it felt expected & even welcomed, with the story itself feeling like the payoff it needed to be. That IMO is the problem with Sylvanas & Tyrande in SL...the payoff we've gotten for their stories feels weak & almost insulting for what we've been through to get there.

Build up stories, build up characters, take the time to make us interested in what is to come. Then once we get there, give us a good payoff for following the story as we've done. That's how you build up a story for the player base to actually sink their teeth into.

[YYDelive]

This is bad. Because 9.2 is delayed for many reasons, players can only guess why this is happening.

They must give us a clearer story frame in Chapter 9 of 9.1

Otherwise we can only wait and learn more about the 9.2 story from C.Golden’s new novel Sylvanas

[Paperfox]

Tabula Rasa (blank slate) sounds good, the problem with a complete reset is that it takes a long time to develop an expansion. Art, music, systems, and story - all these take time. I would not be surprised if they are already hard at work on 10.0.

Were they to do this, then they might have to start from scratch. Regardless of how many assets they can use or re-use, this would definitely extend the development cycle.

If WoW is bleeding subs like everyone says, could they make SL last two years? Or even one year?