Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nagawithlegs]

We need a glorious Argussian Lightforged Talbuk for that!

It would not only be insanely fitting but would solve the height problems of the elekk.

[therumblings]

It would not only be insanely fitting but would solve the height problems of the elekk.

While I do love the Draenei's bond with the Elekk, I would like to see them with Talbuk more ever since it was revealed they are native to Argus, possibly even related in their evolution.

[AngerFork]

Nice! I'm really curious what all they are going to do with Nightborne, especially given the complaints people have had around their eyes.

As a druid, I'm super happy to see that new travel forms are coming. I'd love it if they expanded this setup to go towards Shaman & their ghost wolf/raptor form with some new options as well.

Also, given that they are talking about these coming in 9.1.5, I feel like an announcement/PTR can't be too far off at this point.

[draugril]

Just putting this out there that the supposed leak a few pages back did say we’d be getting expanded customization options in direct opposition to Blizzard’s previously stated stance. Lends it a little more credibility, although I still think the lack of a new class is the giveaway that it’s fake.

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However, playable races, new and old, are in active development, and there is a commitment to further expanding the options for the already playable options.

That's a pretty bold statement to make when this is on the record:

Will there be more new character customization options added in Shadowlands?

Ely Cannon: We're not going to add more character customizations to Shadowlands. Let me explain that: So, the breadth of customizations that we did add, we thought that it was pretty good and, you know, we tried to add things for mostly every race.

There are a few we didn't get as many customizations options in for, and those are the kind of things that we'll be looking forward in the future, we know, to what can we do for the races we didn't do as much for, what would be the right choice there? We tried to be really thoughtful about this, this type of thing, and these types of futures tend to be fairly big projects. We want to make sure that we put the time in, that we're very thoughtful about it, and that we release new customizations when its gonna be really good for the game, really good for the players, and that's still gonna happen in paralel with getting new content out too.

That's always our primary goal, making sure that you have new content to play, and we'll do those other things to enhance the game along the way, but it wouldn't make sense to make it when we don't have a good plan for it.

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Nice! I'm really curious what all they are going to do with Nightborne, especially given the complaints people have had around their eyes.

As a druid, I'm super happy to see that new travel forms are coming. I'd love it if they expanded this setup to go towards Shaman & their ghost wolf/raptor form with some new options as well.

Also, given that they are talking about these coming in 9.1.5, I feel like an announcement/PTR can't be too far off at this point.

The dissonance between the NPC and PC Nightbourne in general is just huge. I wonder if they'll attempt to close the gap...

[Nagawithlegs]

That’s not a very bold assumption, and also the “leak” implies that the ARs customs are happening later as opposed to the very next patch.

Extra customization makes sense as the soonest thing they would walk back on to cultivate fan happiness.

Contrary to popular belief, Blizz caving to player feedback is not THAT irregular for this expansion.

[AngerFork]

Just putting this out there that the supposed leak a few pages back did say we’d be getting expanded customization options in direct opposition to Blizzard’s previously stated stance. Lends it a little more credibility, although I still think the lack of a new class is the giveaway that it’s fake.

Personally, I don't think that the lack of a new class rules it out. The current dev team seems very hesitant to add anything to the game that they'll have to expand upon in future content. Closest thing to something they've added since Legion (aside from the Demon Hunter) which is guaranteed new 10.0 content is Mythic+, and even that is something Blizz can shift and adjust away easier than something like a new class or profession. A new class means extra work to reach MVP for every expansion from that point forward.

I think they should add a new class, but I wouldn't doubt that they internally are pushing against adding a new class in 10.0.

The dissonance between the NPC and PC Nightbourne in general is just huge. I wonder if they'll attempt to close the gap...

I feel like Nightborne more than any other race are going to have their customization options judged on one cosmetic feature specifically. If Blizz gives the eyes to players to use & makes them have faces more like NPC Nightborne, I suspect that they will be celebrated no matter what else is there. If the eyes aren't fixed, players won't care nearly the same about any new hairstyles/tattoos/skin colors/etc.

[Gaidax]

Personally, I don't think that the lack of a new class rules it out. The current dev team seems very hesitant to add anything to the game that they'll have to expand upon in future content. Closest thing to something they've added since Legion (aside from the Demon Hunter) which is guaranteed new 10.0 content is Mythic+, and even that is something Blizz can shift and adjust away easier than something like a new class or profession. A new class means extra work to reach MVP for every expansion from that point forward.

I think they should add a new class, but I wouldn't doubt that they internally are pushing against adding a new class in 10.0.

I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face given just last 2 expansions they added Warfronts, Isles and Torghast.

On the contrary - Blizzard is looking for some another new game mode that will stick - M+ was one, but they do want another seeing their attempts.

And I bet there will be new class 10.0, because everyone and their mothers in Blizzard realize that the time for BS is over - 10.0 they need to go out big and new class is always a solid addition that people like.

[Le Conceptuel]

I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face given just last 2 expansions they added Warfronts, Isles and Torghast.

On the contrary - Blizzard is looking for some another new game mode that will stick - M+ was one, but they do want another seeing their attempts.

And I bet there will be new class 10.0, because everyone and their mothers in Blizzard realize that the time for BS is over - 10.0 they need to go out big and new class is always a solid addition that people like.

It would be a shiny new toy on the surface, yes, but do we really need a new class? They already are having trouble nailing the fantasies of and balancing twelve. Do we need to make it one more?

[Nagawithlegs]

The sad thing about the Nightborne squint is that it’s objectively inferior to the usual player animation rigs: Nightborne clearly weren’t planned on being playable, so they have fewer facial animations on their NPCs that allow for the permasquint without animation problems.

I think it’s possible they could make one or two faces with the squint but it would require a lot of animation mapping, we’ll see if they bother on this update.

I think they know everyone wants the permasquint but I don’t think a lot of players realize it was only possible because they were designed as creature models and not player models. That’s the same reason they can have the cool floating armor but we can’t. Those floating spikes would fuck with too many animations the players can do that the NPCs can’t.

[AngerFork]

I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face given just last 2 expansions they added Warfronts, Isles and Torghast.

On the contrary - Blizzard is looking for some another new game mode that will stick - M+ was one, but they do want another seeing their attempts.

And I bet there will be new class 10.0, because everyone and their mothers in Blizzard realize that the time for BS is over - 10.0 they need to go out big and new class is always a solid addition that people like.

Exactly. They added Warfronts & Isles in BfA as well as Torghast & Covenants in Shadowlands. Much like Warfronts & Islands weren't carried forward to Shadowlands, Torghast & Covenants will almost certainly be antiquated whenever 10.0 comes out. None of those are items that they have to expand upon going into any future expansion. The work done stays within that expansion without continuing forward or needing additional resources once the expansion is complete.

Compare that with something like Pet Battles from MoP which requires new battle pets in every expansion, and often every zone gets their own set. It's work that is silently expected with each expansion, thus increasing what is required for an MVP. If a new zone comes out without new battle pets, people will be upset, but people don't often credit the amount of work it takes to put all of those new pets into the game. This seems to be the sort of thing Blizz has been moving away from, given how they eliminated First Aid as a profession & have largely stopped doing anything with Archaeology.

Something like pet battles is closer to what a new class would need every expansion than something like Warfronts. Every expansion, you have to revisit their abilities & balance each spec for all forms of content while making it feel as unique as possible. If there's any class based thing you want (like Order Halls in Legion), you have to take the new class into account. That's a lot of work that has to happen which likely won't be in the marketing materials past that expansion's launch.

[Nagawithlegs]

They are clearly trying to get a new popular gamemode, it’s just they haven’t had success since M+.

Personally I think they are too focused on making another combat mode when they don’t have to. That MAY be what the Hearthstone tavern is a response to though... maybe we will be able to play Hearthstone in WoW?

I can see them adding Hearthstone and/or Housing as a response to players rejecting the new combat gamemodes in BFA and SL.

[Kereberus]

9.1.5 info next week?

[huth]

a new charger for LFDs.

For some reason i read that as the dungeon tool and was left utterly confused.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I mean you say that, but let's look at these last 4.
Alleria is slightly corrupted by the void, but nothing seems to indicate that she is actually about to turn.
Greymane was the most zealous of those opposing the Horde outside Tyrande, but he seems to have directed all that anger at Sylvanas.
Turalyon is the closest to being "bad", but the only indications we have of a potential turn is his slightly more zealous than usual wish to restore old Lordaeron.
Anduin being evil is only really possibly with outside intervention. Nothing in his character is prone to being corrupted, even discounting his tendencies to always be right he doesnt actually have any traits that could realistically be made into negatives. At a real stretch he has the same weakness Arthas did in wanting to protect his people couples with low self-esteem, but even then its not nearly as bad as Arthas.

Turalyon is really the only Alliance leader that could realistically be made into a villain in a way that doesnt require mind-control or similar. His relationship with Lothraxion is a cause for concern, but that just makes it more likely he will be made evil because of outside influence.

What? Alleria is about as "evil" (if take it as a scale) as Turalyon, the whole idea why they are a negative influence on the Alliance stemms from Legion where she did way more dodgy shit han him and the book where both did the exactly same stuff; namely torturing their way through Horde refugees. Greymane wants vengence, but was more controlled than Tyrande, but hasn't be inappropriately touched by some goddess recently. All three of them are more prone to conflict, wanting harder responses to the Horde.

That leaves us with Anduin, who is "clearly" just becomming less of himself, which could mean anything. In the book he was already wavering with his liberal use of shadow magic and how to deal with the dark sides of his job, all he needs is a little push, a little less being Anduin-best-super-friend (which conveniently sounds exactly like "I feel less like myself"), and he might be easily influenced by the other 3 to take a hardliner position. I don't even think they would go for corrupt leader bullshit, I'm fairly certain they have heard that we are sick and tired of that dumb shit. So I don't expect us to raid SW any time soon, but I expect the Alliance to take a harder position against the Horde, no more wait and see and let's hope we can talk, while they burn down his kingdom in the background. His arc will be overcoming his trauma and finding back to himself, pretty much the 2021 version of Varian's "I need to reign in my rage".

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Some Nightborn updates were desperately needed, as their basic shipping package was utterly lacking and they were pretty much entirely propped up by their heritage armor. Now if they just would add an option for them to be druids and I could finally play one on Horde that doesn't look like total ass.

[arandomuser]

if the jailer is final boss of xpac next patch i hope they make him LK level difficult
i meme on tbc and classic for being easy but LK is a fight where they really amped up difficulty 90m active hp with people doin around 10k dps same dps as sanctum almost and they give bosses 30 m hp ResidentSleeper

[Makabreska]

if the jailer is final boss of xpac next patch i hope they make him LK level difficult
i meme on tbc and classic for being easy but LK is a fight where they really amped up difficulty 90m active hp with people doin around 10k dps same dps as sanctum almost and they give bosses 30 m hp ResidentSleeper

LK was hard because it had 50 attempts per week.

[Revamp Man]

LK was hard because it had 50 attempts per week.

I would kill for a return to limited attempts
1. The majority of players would see it as harder content even though it is just the same
2. The race would probably have more structure though piss off some of the guilds
3. Blizz would have to be on top of the bugs and fixes so it wouldn’t get a bunch of bad press

I think it wouldn’t be a great change but an interesting one

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9.1.5 will hit ptr by September
Launch in October

Contain
Cosmetics
Legion TW
MoP TW raid being ToT which I’m ready for
Tradable anima items for alts

That’s the bare minimum

What I would love is more sanctum upgrades
Transport network rank 4: portal to korthia or a hearthstone for the sanctum
Anima conductor rank 4: summons a boss that gives cosmetics for your covenant members
Mission table rank 4: unlocks a third troop type
Special buildings
Kyrian: new trial difficulty and another 10% boost and more items
NecroLord: craft a mount/pet
Venthyr: more invitations to get more cosmetics
Night fae: the soul shapes mentioned and more pets and armor

[Lady Atia]

They are clearly trying to get a new popular gamemode, it’s just they haven’t had success since M+.

Personally I think they are too focused on making another combat mode when they don’t have to. That MAY be what the Hearthstone tavern is a response to though... maybe we will be able to play Hearthstone in WoW?

I can see them adding Hearthstone and/or Housing as a response to players rejecting the new combat gamemodes in BFA and SL.

I would love it if they would connect Hearthstone and WoW. Give each expansion of Hearthstone a few TCG like mounts, pets and toys and I would instantly play it again. Sadly I think that will never happen, and if all the shop haters will moan too because "pAy 2 wIn".

[Sondrelk]

What I would love is more sanctum upgrades
Transport network rank 4: portal to korthia or a hearthstone for the sanctum
Anima conductor rank 4: summons a boss that gives cosmetics for your covenant members
Mission table rank 4: unlocks a third troop type
Special buildings
Kyrian: new trial difficulty and another 10% boost and more items
NecroLord: craft a mount/pet
Venthyr: more invitations to get more cosmetics
Night fae: the soul shapes mentioned and more pets and armor

Having thought about it a while I have to wonder whether the ideal "upgrade"/Ripcord solution might be a new questline given at Renown 80(or higher if we assume 9.2) that basically says that you have done everything, and that you can go back to Oribos and choose a second covenant that you can then swap abilities between freely.

This would give everyone a chance for all the cosmetics, silence the ripcord complaints, and in a way quadruple the content for everyone.

[Revamp Man]

Having thought about it a while I have to wonder whether the ideal "upgrade"/Ripcord solution might be a new questline given at Renown 80(or higher if we assume 9.2) that basically says that you have done everything, and that you can go back to Oribos and choose a second covenant that you can then swap abilities between freely.

This would give everyone a chance for all the cosmetics, silence the ripcord complaints, and in a way quadruple the content for everyone.

For the love of god no
This just makes the grind a thing again for most players and then creates a bigger systems problem with soulbinds and conduit energy
Add into the fact that the market would crash harder due to the mission table duplicates
Then you still have the story issue of the covenants all United and friends and together but still limited in terms of gameplay because “meaningful choice”