1. #6321
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Let's actually hope that sets are coming as promised in SL, because current situation makes words spoken more than a year ago not a very solid ground.
    The work to make them should have already started back when he said that, so unless they straight up decide on making 4 of the sets the generic sets and scrap the rest I doubt they would go back on it.
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  2. #6322
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The work to make them should have already started back when he said that, so unless they straight up decide on making 4 of the sets the generic sets and scrap the rest I doubt they would go back on it.
    I dunno what's up with them, because Dom Shards work very well like sets. Are they testing something? What for? People wanted sets that worked as always for more than a decade.
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  3. #6323
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The work to make them should have already started back when he said that, so unless they straight up decide on making 4 of the sets the generic sets and scrap the rest I doubt they would go back on it.
    I maen I wouldn't even mind if sets had a common base theme and they only styled the helmets, shoulders, belts and gloves a bit to reflect the class in question.

    That being said, I think a way bigger problem right now would be to adress the loot issue in M+ and how sets interact with that. Imho the way m+ handles loot needs to be thought through again from the beginning. Having 2 years of hunting the same rubbish is mostly just boring. Also needing to raid to get bonuses in m+ (and PvP) is something that should be addressed by letting each type of gameplay have it's own bonuses that either only work there (only good thing about domination sockets tbh) or have bonuses that are mostly usefull there.
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  4. #6324
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I dunno what's up with them, because Dom Shards work very well like sets. Are they testing something? What for? People wanted sets that worked as always for more than a decade.
    I imagine they wanted to test something tier set adjacent. This patch brought the shortcomings of tier sets as gearing back into full force.
    For that matter they probably also wanted something that could work alongside the Box of many things to help nerf Torghast, as well as work as a pseudo-nerf for the raid like they usually like to have.

    As for why gems I think it was just straight up to test a version of Tier sets that might have less inherent problems. Or at least different ones.
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  5. #6325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    No, I'm talking Activision only and Blizzard only. Activision got up from ~40m to ~150m, Blizzard from 46m to 20m over same time...
    Nice manipulation. When you actually see chart that was posted everywhere you can notice few things:

    a) WoW expansions did not change downfall trend at all
    b) if somehow you deny that WoW expansion short term bring shit ton of MAUs (relatively to WoW population), Vanilla Classic launch, easily biggest WoW related launch in history, didn't change trend either, overall MAUs increased just by 1 million for 1 quarter and keep falling after that
    c) we are back to numbers from early 2016
    d) biggest increase was 2016-2017, then sharp drop 2018-2019, now slower decrease 2020-2021

    Did Blizzard release game in 2016 with different target group than RPG/strategy players that could massively expand their playerbase? How this game is performing now? Hmmmmm.

  6. #6326
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Nice manipulation. When you actually see chart that was posted everywhere you can notice few things:

    a) WoW expansions did not change downfall trend at all
    b) if somehow you deny that WoW expansion short term bring shit ton of MAUs (relatively to WoW population), Vanilla Classic launch, easily biggest WoW related launch in history, didn't change trend either, overall MAUs increased just by 1 million for 1 quarter and keep falling after that
    c) we are back to numbers from early 2016
    d) biggest increase was 2016-2017, then sharp drop 2018-2019, now slower decrease 2020-2021

    Did Blizzard release game in 2016 with different target group than RPG/strategy players that could massively expand their playerbase? How this game is performing now? Hmmmmm.
    It's not a manipulation, it's how it is.

    Blizzard did not release anything new for years, their first new game won't be out until 2023 - that's 7 years of nothing. And the few remaining live games they have - they kill off one by one, whether it's HoTS, Overwatch and now even WoW with its current obvious exodus.

    It is beyond me how they even got to this state, why they did nothing with Starcraft IP that's just sitting there gathering dust? Why it took almost a decade to even start talking about D4? Where are new games? Heck, even something like WIII Remaster - which could have been their pride and joy turned into a meme because of neglect for a bigger part of its development.

    You want to tell me that's good management for Blizzard? This is nothing short of a disaster. They don't even have bloody anything good to write in their latest report - except oh look we found this one metric that does not suck and our projects, which won't be a thing for a year plus are on track. Meanwhile Activision spiking.

    At this rate there won't be any Activision-Blizzard. It will be Activision and Blizzard will be just some Activision satellite studio - well deserved outcome.

  7. #6327
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    It's not a manipulation, it's how it is.

    Blizzard did not release anything new for years, their first new game won't be out until 2023 - that's 7 years of nothing. And the few remaining live games they have - they kill off one by one, whether it's HoTS, Overwatch and now even WoW with its current obvious exodus.

    It is beyond me how they even got to this state, why they did nothing with Starcraft IP that's just sitting there gathering dust? Why it took almost a decade to even start talking about D4? Where are new games? Heck, even something like WIII Remaster - which could have been their pride and joy turned into a meme because of neglect for a bigger part of its development.

    You want to tell me that's good management for Blizzard? This is nothing short of a disaster. They don't even have bloody anything good to write in their latest report - except oh look we found this one metric that does not suck and our projects, which won't be a thing for a year plus are on track. Meanwhile Activision spiking.

    At this rate there won't be any Activision-Blizzard. It will be Activision and Blizzard will be just some Activision satellite studio - well deserved outcome.
    So, what was the reason for you to post this in this thread? Look at the topic. Make some drama topic outside of this one
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  8. #6328
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I wonder how much influence on the lecraft guy(Guy that isn't at Blizz but is a very......bad person). I was wondering if he might of been a source of some of the system woes.
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  9. #6329
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I wonder how much influence on the lecraft guy(Guy that isn't at Blizz but is a very......bad person). I was wondering if he might of been a source of some of the system woes.
    And what gives you that idea? He was a senior game designer, not even in a leading position, that would be Morgan Day (sic?). Technically he would be at the pinnicale of the grunt workers without much descision making powers at all. We also don't even know what bad exactly he did or didn't do, so blaming random "bad guy" seems like you are fishing for a scape goat. While seniority usually comes with a bit more weight when it comes to descisions, it means nothing if people flat out out-rank you, at least if those don't absolutely suck at their jobs.

    I also doubt the sudden willingness to change things is related to employees leaving or beeing let go. That seems more like a reaction to the general reception of the game.
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2021-08-30 at 02:29 AM.
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  10. #6330
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Is it really later? For something that was planned as a core feature for the whole expansion it actually came rather early. Legendaries in Legion went through multiple iterations until the damn vendor finally came at the end of the expansion. Azerite was a bit different, since the 2nd iteration kinda stuck and the system was overshadowed by the 2nd and 3rd system that they stacked on top of it by the end, which will probably not happen this time as domination sockets are already marked with a death date.

    Either way, for a feature of that size the complete break down is actually rather early (we can even mog cross covenant, that usually happens after the current expansion). They really were desperate this time and pulled out all the stops.


    Also discussing such things is very much on topic, the current state of the game and Blizzard's behaviour is pretty much the biggest thing we have to go on as basis for speculation.
    Well tbf it won't be early if 9.2 will be the last Shadowlands content patch.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Ah, nvm then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    They could still use it. It is an effective time gate, the question is more if they want to keep adding to the covenants as such in 9.2 or will they do the usual and abandon most of it for the (probably) final major patch? Frankly I'm not sure I care much for more champions I have to level once again or unlocking boring conduit upgrades. The 9.1 levels of 41-80 are already kinda forced imho and not very exciting. I guess they could time gate stuff differently if they don't have many small things that they want to lock down, as the campaign might as well just be a weekly thing like in the past. Heck they could even do the thing they did in Suramar and cap it by reputation with fixed gains.
    The could easily use the renown system for the next big faction in 9.2. Just instead of farming renown for your Covenant you farm it for ... idk .... "Expedition of Oribos" or something else.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    I maen I wouldn't even mind if sets had a common base theme and they only styled the helmets, shoulders, belts and gloves a bit to reflect the class in question.

    That being said, I think a way bigger problem right now would be to adress the loot issue in M+ and how sets interact with that. Imho the way m+ handles loot needs to be thought through again from the beginning. Having 2 years of hunting the same rubbish is mostly just boring. Also needing to raid to get bonuses in m+ (and PvP) is something that should be addressed by letting each type of gameplay have it's own bonuses that either only work there (only good thing about domination sockets tbh) or have bonuses that are mostly usefull there.
    They could either re-use the pvp sets for M+ or make two more seperate recolours with a elite recolour once you hit 2,3k or something.

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  11. #6331
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I wonder how much influence on the lecraft guy(Guy that isn't at Blizz but is a very......bad person). I was wondering if he might of been a source of some of the system woes.
    wasnt lecraft an art dude??

    the system woes are from the lead system designer who sits on twitter with his team saying players are wrong and the problem with their game and if they were all fired there wouldnt be a game
    the dude went full on "oh my god i have to leave twitter because i harrassed a guy that doesnt play the game anymore and he pointed it out in front of thousands"

  12. #6332
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post

    Griftah being in Oribos is far, far worse as far as lore breaches go.
    Eh, honestly, if there's anyone I can see making his way to the afterlife to scam more people, it is him.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    wasnt lecraft an art dude??

    the system woes are from the lead system designer who sits on twitter with his team saying players are wrong and the problem with their game and if they were all fired there wouldnt be a game
    the dude went full on "oh my god i have to leave twitter because i harrassed a guy that doesnt play the game anymore and he pointed it out in front of thousands"
    He was Senior Game Designer, actually.

    Also I see we're back to "let's make flying annoying" idea again. While I agree how flying works at present isn't the best, there's no way they're going to change the system like that. You think the uproar over no flying was bad, just wait.

  13. #6333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    And what gives you that idea? He was a senior game designer, not even in a leading position, that would be Morgan Day (sic?). Technically he would be at the pinnicale of the grunt workers without much descision making powers at all. We also don't even know what bad exactly he did or didn't do, so blaming random "bad guy" seems like you are fishing for a scape goat. While seniority usually comes with a bit more weight when it comes to descisions, it means nothing if people flat out out-rank you, at least if those don't absolutely suck at their jobs.

    I also doubt the sudden willingness to change things is related to employees leaving or beeing let go. That seems more like a reaction to the general reception of the game.
    Lecraft designed demon hunters for example
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  14. #6334
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Eh, honestly, if there's anyone I can see making his way to the afterlife to scam more people, it is him.



    He was Senior Game Designer, actually.

    Also I see we're back to "let's make flying annoying" idea again. While I agree how flying works at present isn't the best, there's no way they're going to change the system like that. You think the uproar over no flying was bad, just wait.
    Idk why I kept thinking of him as the art guy

    More changes to the flying system will only lead to complaints

  15. #6335
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Eh, honestly, if there's anyone I can see making his way to the afterlife to scam more people, it is him.



    He was Senior Game Designer, actually.

    Also I see we're back to "let's make flying annoying" idea again. While I agree how flying works at present isn't the best, there's no way they're going to change the system like that. You think the uproar over no flying was bad, just wait.
    The thing with flying is that the problem isn't going to be fixed unless Blizzard stands their ground and makes the controversial change.

    Yes it would lead to massive outcry, just as it did in WoD. But if it is something that will make the game better in the long term then it should be done regardless.

    Besides, the point of a potential revamp is to balance flying in such a way that the only option to design around it is to remove it. Or at the very least make it less obvious that there is such a drastic flip from flying to no flying.
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  16. #6336
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The thing with flying is that the problem isn't going to be fixed unless Blizzard stands their ground and makes the controversial change.

    Yes it would lead to massive outcry, just as it did in WoD. But if it is something that will make the game better in the long term then it should be done regardless.

    Besides, the point of a potential revamp is to balance flying in such a way that the only option to design around it is to remove it. Or at the very least make it less obvious that there is such a drastic flip from flying to no flying.
    I want them to design zones with flying in mind

    Like in 9.1 flying unlocking elite areas in the main zones with new rares and dailies

  17. #6337
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Idk why I kept thinking of him as the art guy

    More changes to the flying system will only lead to complaints
    Changes to anything will lead to complaints. However as WoD proved, if the system is irreparable then you just need to accept the outrage to make the game better long term.

    After all, if Blizzard hadn't changed flying in WoD then we would probably not have gotten better ground content, nor would we likely see the return of a more vibrant open world content variety like we saw in Legion with Suramar.
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  18. #6338
    Pretty sure the idea that the Dragon Isles could be flying islands is a direct response to flying feedback. It could be a way to make flying viable at the start of the expansion (you have to fly from Kalimdor/EK to the islands)

  19. #6339
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Well tbf it won't be early if 9.2 will be the last Shadowlands content patch.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The could easily use the renown system for the next big faction in 9.2. Just instead of farming renown for your Covenant you farm it for ... idk .... "Expedition of Oribos" or something else.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They could either re-use the pvp sets for M+ or make two more seperate recolours with a elite recolour once you hit 2,3k or something.
    It would still be early, because usually this happens with the last patch during the following content draught.

    I also never doubted that they could use if just for whatever they want. Just that the the way it is currently structured is mostly focused on covenant unlocks and a new system would probably be inherently flawed if they had to time gate another 40 unlocks and more via it. Also Blizzard usually abandons core features in favor of new ones during the last patch. Either way, even if they keep the covenants going in 9.2, as I said, I'm not stocked for more conduit unlocks and more goddamn followers that takes ages to level. :/

    As for the last part, the how isn't an issue imho. Obviously reusing the set is the answer. I'm more concered about Blizzard's capability to realize that m+ loot, while powerfull for the average joe, is also boring beyond hope for the duration of an entire expansion. Regrinding the same trinkets isn't exactly stellar entertainment. On top of that raid sets working in M+ always leads the feeling of being woefully underequipped for the task at hand.
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  20. #6340
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    I want them to design zones with flying in mind

    Like in 9.1 flying unlocking elite areas in the main zones with new rares and dailies
    If flyings only purpose is unlocking new areas then that could just as easily be achieved with new teleports or flight paths.

    There is no middle ground currently between flying not being available, and flying invalidating most of the ground content. This is why a revamp is needed, to allow Blizzard room to create middle ground options.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Pretty sure the idea that the Dragon Isles could be flying islands is a direct response to flying feedback. It could be a way to make flying viable at the start of the expansion (you have to fly from Kalimdor/EK to the islands)
    That wouldn't make flying viable, that would make flying required. And it wouldn't be needed for the content either, it would just invalidate the little ground content there is.

    Consider for instance the last expansion that tried melding the two, MoP.
    Sure the ridge that you needed flying to unlock was neat in that it somewhat organically segmented the zone, but the content placed there didn't escape the inherent problems of flying. That quests there looked the same as all quests with flying available. You descend down directly on the exact enemy you want, avoiding everything around it, kill it move by up then move on to the next.

    As I said before, there is no middle ground between flying and no flying.
    Compare to other games, a middle ground might be that flying is not available near enemies, so as to prevent the exact thing I said, it might be momentum based to prevent just being able to take off from anywhere. It might make it inconvenient to land just anywhere to prevent the issue of landing directly on your objective.

    Content based around flying can work in wow, just not with this version of flying.
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