1. #6381
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    I would rather take a new good feature like housing instead of trying to ruin a working feature aka flying. Thanks.
    But housing isn't a good feature, and flying isn't working.

  2. #6382
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    I would rather take a new good feature like housing instead of trying to ruin a working feature aka flying. Thanks.
    So WoD then? With customizable player housing that has your pets wander around, and a stable for your pets and all that fun stuff?
    Player housing would be great if it was made perfectly, but there isnt really any proof that we would get that version, it's more likely we would get Garrisons 2.0 instead.

    Flying meanwhile doesnt integrate into the game at all, and the compromise solution we have now doesnt actually satisfy either camp. Those that want flying doesnt get it while its relevant, and those that want better focus on open world content has to see it butchered once flying is introduced.

    A flying revamp could finally give a better compromise. One that allows flying to be available from day one, but also doesnt inherently undercut most of the open-world gameplay.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #6383
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    So WoD then? With customizable player housing that has your pets wander around, and a stable for your pets and all that fun stuff?
    Player housing would be great if it was made perfectly, but there isnt really any proof that we would get that version, it's more likely we would get Garrisons 2.0 instead.

    Flying meanwhile doesnt integrate into the game at all, and the compromise solution we have now doesnt actually satisfy either camp. Those that want flying doesnt get it while its relevant, and those that want better focus on open world content has to see it butchered once flying is introduced.

    A flying revamp could finally give a better compromise. One that allows flying to be available from day one, but also doesnt inherently undercut most of the open-world gameplay.
    More like Valheim but brought into WoW. But yeah, I would love it if my pets could run around my house (but maybe let me choose which ones). Same goes for a stable - but only if I can customize it 100%.

    Just imagine how cool this could be:



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  4. #6384
    Considering how many furniture and prop doodads already exist in WoW and can be reused for housing, I don't think a housing system would be that insane.

    It would NOT be multi-phased-neighborhood like XIV though so people would definitely make that comparison. At the same time it would likely not have the ridiculous housing payment system XIV has so there's that too.

  5. #6385
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    So WoD then?
    No, not like wod.
    More like ESO, FF14, SWTOR, BDO, etc.

    You know, games with actual player housing.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  6. #6386
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    No, not like wod.
    More like ESO, FF14, SWTOR, BDO, etc.

    You know, games with actual player housing.
    Just mention furniture. WoD didn't let you place furniture, all those games do.

    You just need a phased area you own and can place and move decorations in. That's it.

  7. #6387
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    If we are being honest, I think one of the reasons flying isn’t in at launch is so that players are forced to check immersive elements the art team put on the ground level of the zones.

    I think they need to accept that the mass majority of players don’t care and just want to kill the dragon, get the treasure and log off as quickly as possible. It’s sad but you can’t force people to want to wander around the world. You can maybe get people to hang in certain areas but not the whole world.
    I feel like they've outright said that before. That one reason is so as not to cheapen the Art Team's work by having you just fly over all their hard work.
    FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)

  8. #6388
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I feel like they've outright said that before. That one reason is so as not to cheapen the Art Team's work by having you just fly over all their hard work.
    It's not just art, there are developers dedicated to designign the way the zone is laid out, where enemies are situated, shortcuts and neat secrets every so often that is straight up just not a factor at all when flying is used.

    What is afterall the point of artists spending time and effort on their jobs, using their education and experience crafting the world if players just end up demanding the ability to auto-run, then alt tab out of the game for a bit while the game flies you over painlessly.

    It is basically the same thing as everyone having teh ability to instantly kill any boss they have killed before. Sure you get that one good attempt, but good luck trying to prevent players from abusing that going forwards. And good luck having developers keep up enthusiasm if players insist the ability isnt just something they prefer, it's something they seem to genuinely believe is good for the game.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #6389
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    If we are being honest, I think one of the reasons flying isn’t in at launch is so that players are forced to check immersive elements the art team put on the ground level of the zones.

    I think they need to accept that the mass majority of players don’t care and just want to kill the dragon, get the treasure and log off as quickly as possible. It’s sad but you can’t force people to want to wander around the world. You can maybe get people to hang in certain areas but not the whole world.
    I'm sure they want that, but that's not a good reason to let them have it.

  10. #6390
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It's not just art, there are developers dedicated to designign the way the zone is laid out, where enemies are situated, shortcuts and neat secrets every so often that is straight up just not a factor at all when flying is used.

    What is afterall the point of artists spending time and effort on their jobs, using their education and experience crafting the world if players just end up demanding the ability to auto-run, then alt tab out of the game for a bit while the game flies you over painlessly.

    It is basically the same thing as everyone having teh ability to instantly kill any boss they have killed before. Sure you get that one good attempt, but good luck trying to prevent players from abusing that going forwards. And good luck having developers keep up enthusiasm if players insist the ability isnt just something they prefer, it's something they seem to genuinely believe is good for the game.
    Sometimes I honestly wonder if WoW going F2P would be the right call. People are starting to feel really really really really like "this isn't worth $15 if you don't listen to me!", so going F2P so that it's straight up "the people who give us the most money wiill be the ones listened to" would be a good way to weed out people.

  11. #6391
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Sometimes I honestly wonder if WoW going F2P would be the right call. People are starting to feel really really really really like "this isn't worth $15 if you don't listen to me!", so going F2P so that it's straight up "the people who give us the most money wiill be the ones listened to" would be a good way to weed out people.
    The problem with that option is the optics of it. There isnt a single F2P MMO that is considered succesful outside maybe Runescape. There are ones with a fanbase, but to the consumer an MMO going from a subscription to F2P would overwhelmingly be seen as the developers abandoning it.
    Besides, the game has to generate revenue somewho, and I doubt the current in-game shop generates enough cash to keep the game going at a reasonable pace, not to mention that while new expansions are massive revenue sources it's still only a short spike once every 2 years.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #6392
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Sometimes I honestly wonder if WoW going F2P would be the right call. People are starting to feel really really really really like "this isn't worth $15 if you don't listen to me!", so going F2P so that it's straight up "the people who give us the most money wiill be the ones listened to" would be a good way to weed out people.
    No, it would not and suggesting such a thing is absurd. People being whiny about what they want shouldn't make a game go F2P. You're gonna get whiny people regardless. Even non Blizzard games some people still feel entitled that their words are worth more then other or rather they are the only person to be listened to. Wow doesn't need and shouldn't go f2P. Their biggest concern is not having bad eggs like........afrasjerkface.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2021-08-30 at 07:02 PM.
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  13. #6393
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Pretty much. Blizzard cannot remove flying completely, if only because some zones need it to function, and there is a massive library of flying mounts that wouldnt be used, but if we hadnt gotten flying back in 6.2 then Blizzard would have needed to actually look at how to reintroduce flying in a way that doesnt have the same inherent flaws as it does. However they ended up caving, which not only made the playerbase expect it back with reneved vigor, but also made it less likely Blizzard will remake it seeing as they already have a compromise solution.
    If Blizzard is going to continue to make maps where getting from point A to somewhere just a little bit north means going on a specific path east, then back around south, then to the west, then north a while, then east, and finally back south to your end point, then they need to have flying.

    OK I'm being dramatic. But too many times, in Legion especially, getting from point A to point B by ground was tedious, annoying, and just flat out unfun.

    Argus was a hassle to get around in because the paths were too populated by mobs, and sometimes non-existent, and the Maw is unpleasant for low geared toons without invis. Korthia though is a good example of how to make a zone that works without flying.

    If they insist on trying to make getting from point A to point B by ground a quest in itself, then the best thing anyone can do in 10.0 is to unsub until flying comes out. If they make ground travel mostly trivial, sometimes a bit tedious or tricky, and occasionally challenging, then I am 100% agreed that flying could - and should - be flat out removed.

  14. #6394
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    If we are being honest, I think one of the reasons flying isn’t in at launch is so that players are forced to check immersive elements the art team put on the ground level of the zones.

    I think they need to accept that the mass majority of players don’t care and just want to kill the dragon, get the treasure and log off as quickly as possible. It’s sad but you can’t force people to want to wander around the world. You can maybe get people to hang in certain areas but not the whole world.
    I think you need to accept that the mass majority don't care if flying is in the game or not., They are fine when it isn't there and are fine when it is. You and all the "flying at lanch" are in the minority as are those who are "no flying ever". Everyone else is "don't care whether flying is in the game or not".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    If Blizzard is going to continue to make maps where getting from point A to somewhere just a little bit north means going on a specific path east, then back around south, then to the west, then north a while, then east, and finally back south to your end point, then they need to have flying.

    OK I'm being dramatic. But too many times, in Legion especially, getting from point A to point B by ground was tedious, annoying, and just flat out unfun.

    Argus was a hassle to get around in because the paths were too populated by mobs, and sometimes non-existent, and the Maw is unpleasant for low geared toons without invis. Korthia though is a good example of how to make a zone that works without flying.

    If they insist on trying to make getting from point A to point B by ground a quest in itself, then the best thing anyone can do in 10.0 is to unsub until flying comes out. If they make ground travel mostly trivial, sometimes a bit tedious or tricky, and occasionally challenging, then I am 100% agreed that flying could - and should - be flat out removed.
    You were being completely over dramatic. I never had any issues getting orund in Legion nor was it ever tedious. People will just call anything that is isn't going directly froim point A to B in a straight line tedious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The problem with that option is the optics of it. There isnt a single F2P MMO that is considered succesful outside maybe Runescape. There are ones with a fanbase, but to the consumer an MMO going from a subscription to F2P would overwhelmingly be seen as the developers abandoning it.
    Besides, the game has to generate revenue somewho, and I doubt the current in-game shop generates enough cash to keep the game going at a reasonable pace, not to mention that while new expansions are massive revenue sources it's still only a short spike once every 2 years.
    But that spike makes the entire cycle profitable from the beginning.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Just mention furniture. WoD didn't let you place furniture, all those games do.

    You just need a phased area you own and can place and move decorations in. That's it.
    Sims -> You get all that there. The is WORLD of Warcraft, not Instance of Warcraft.

  15. #6395
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I think you need to accept that the mass majority don't care if flying is in the game or not., They are fine when it isn't there and are fine when it is. You and all the "flying at lanch" are in the minority as are those who are "no flying ever". Everyone else is "don't care whether flying is in the game or not".

    - - - Updated - - -

    You were being completely over dramatic. I never had any issues getting orund in Legion nor was it ever tedious. People will just call anything that is isn't going directly froim point A to B in a straight line tedious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But that spike makes the entire cycle profitable from the beginning.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sims -> You get all that there. The is WORLD of Warcraft, not Instance of Warcraft.
    You are right. I don't give a fuck if or when flying is coming.

  16. #6396
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    Good that wowhead made post about Path of Ascension, but imo they missed biggest problem about it - it's not account wide. I have no problem it's way more challenging than other 3 minigames.

  17. #6397
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    The is WORLD of Warcraft, not Instance of Warcraft.
    You sure about that one?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Good that wowhead made post about Path of Ascension, but imo they missed biggest problem about it - it's not account wide. I have no problem it's way more challenging than other 3 minigames.
    I think everything you ever do should be account-wide. Because why the bloody not. Somehow that other game does it and it did not explode yet.

  18. #6398
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Sims -> You get all that there. The is WORLD of Warcraft, not Instance of Warcraft.
    It'd be nice if people could finally come up with an actual argument and not just repeat these dumbfuck statements ad infinitum, every time the topic of housing comes up.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  19. #6399
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Good that wowhead made post about Path of Ascension, but imo they missed biggest problem about it - it's not account wide. I have no problem it's way more challenging than other 3 minigames.
    I dunno, it not being account wide might be a problem I guess, but the underlying problem definitely is that unlike the Abomination Yard and Queen's Conservatory, it doesnt get easier, it cannot be solved with time. It requires not just dedication, but also intimate knowledge of the mechanics of the subsystem itself.

    Getting the weapons from the Abomination Yard was one of the most draining things I have done in the game, but it did only take time. Same with the armor, it was slow and more annoying than it should have been, but if you were diligent in attempting the system you would get everything.

    With the Path of Ascension you cannot avoid going at it the hard way, and unlike the Ember Court there isnt really any option of going for a minimum amount of progress. The NPCs talk big about each loss bringing you closer to victory, but in truth there is no way to get around what is honestly one of the hardest challenges in this expansion.


    I must admit though, I never realized that there was supposed to be a system that made it easier with Renown. That is something that would definitely make sense. The covenant sanctum features should be a fun side activity, not a brutally difficult grind for glory. If I put effort into upgrading that feature I should feel confident I will eventually get the reward, even if it takes a while, not feel like my time is being wasted because the system is harder than the other covenant features for no discernible reason.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #6400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    snip
    Venthyr requires preparation and logging in every week, NF is just 4 days timegate, Necrolord is grind, Kyrian is challenge with limited attempts. First 3 didn't get easier with time either, cause they have no challenge to begin with.

    And who said this features have to be equaly difficult? Especially in 9.1.5 situation when you progress all 4 at same time. Kyrian stuff is taste of Mage Tower that won't get easier on top of that. But asking us to do exactly same challenge 4 times (or 5 if you did it on other leather than DH) to unlock stuff is just pointless.

    Especially since they already did account wide change to Venthyr stuff. On alts all guests are unlocked, you just have to do party with whatever for few weeks, buy transmog and you're done.

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