Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[TheFirstOnes]

Old Gods are as much gods as lightning strikes can be attributed to zeus having eaten something wrong. And frankly naaru seem considerably weaker yet again, including the effing prime naaru.
None of the Azeroth schmocks should become central figures in the cosmology.

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I mean technically the first ones are already way beyond the scope of death&life, they were the founding figures of the whole universe and the figures behind the cosmic forces, the closest to actual gods as we know right now.

Well, we don't know if they did make the Cosmic Forces, or if they just simply balanced them which then made the Cosmos. But yeah, they are beyond that scope. The IDEA however is that us meeting the First Ones' Sepulcher and whatnot is basically us finally stepping into the realms of the Cosmos, and realizing that even our "gods" have a power that rules over them.

[Varodoc]

Old Gods are as much gods as lightning strikes can be attributed to zeus having eaten something wrong. And frankly naaru seem considerably weaker yet again, including the effing prime naaru.
None of the Azeroth schmocks should become central figures in the cosmology.

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I mean technically the first ones are already way beyond the scope of death&life, they were the founding figures of the whole universe and the figures behind the cosmic forces, the closest to actual gods as we know right now.

False.

Both the Old Gods, as the name implies, and the Naaru are divine in nature. And they both have godly powers. The Old Gods are capable of corrupting even the Dragon Aspects and can corrupt entire worlds and Titan souls. The Naaru are capable of laying waste to entire cities in one swift strike (see the Dark Naaru in AU Draenor).

The Old Gods and Naaru are already cemented in the Warcraft cosmology, see the Chronicles.

Are we really trying to argue that the Old G O D S aren't considered Gods? Come now

[TheFirstOnes]

The only one that makes sense is Alleria, and that's because she already has the power of a God, the power of the Dark Naaru (the Naaru are deities and are the Cosmic counterpart of the Old GODS). So Alleria unlike these cretins is already a Demi-God.

I could see her consuming a Void Lord in the future.

That being said, all these other people are mere mortals, they don't belong in any Pantheon.

Yeah, let her consume a fucking VOID LORD! A fully powered Void Lord. Suuuurrreeee

That would be like someone consuming the power of Yog-Sothoth. No.

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False.

Both the Old Gods, as the name implies, and the Naaru are divine in nature. And they both have godly powers. The Old Gods are capable of corrupting even the Dragon Aspects and can corrupt entire worlds and Titan souls. The Naaru are capable of laying waste to entire cities in one swift strike (see the Dark Naaru in AU Draenor).

The Old Gods and Naaru are already cemented in the Warcraft cosmology, see the Chronicles.

Are we really trying to argue that the Old G O D S aren't considered Gods? Come now

The Old Gods are simply godly in that they once ruled Azeroth prior to the Titans arriving there, hence why the mortals on Azeroth gave them such a name. They themselves aren't really "gods". Hell, even the Naaru are more-so comparable to the old testament Angels, tbh.

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Other mortals simply call Old Gods "Dark Gods" cause of their insane void abilities and otherworldly looks. I don't even think you should consider the Eternal Ones, the Titans, or even the Void Lords as a true "divinity" tbh. The Outer Gods in H.P Lovecraft certainly aren't truly gods, but to the mortals, they display godlike powers and authority that give them such a title.

[Cosmic Janitor]

False.

Both the Old Gods, as the name implies, and the Naaru are divine in nature. And they both have godly powers. The Old Gods are capable of corrupting even the Dragon Aspects and can corrupt entire worlds and Titan souls. The Naaru are capable of laying waste to entire cities in one swift strike (see the Dark Naaru in AU Draenor).

The Old Gods and Naaru are already cemented in the Warcraft cosmology, see the Chronicles.

Are we really trying to argue that the Old G O D S aren't considered Gods? Come now

That's just your head canon mate, because it supports your Alleria worshipping. Also Chronicles, or more to the point that one picture, has already been lowered to the levels of titan fan fiction, since Blizzard can't stick to a canon to save their lives.

[TheFirstOnes]

I get all of this. What you say makes sense. But they can't even untangle the single Death-related storyline. How should they get the writing for a cosmic war with 4 or 5 of the major forces right? This sounds so incredibly bad already, I don't want them to even try at this point.

Maybe the next expansion really should be tabula rasa and named World of Warcraft: Awokenings, it would fit their current agenda.

What do you mean they can't untangle it? Bro, the basis of the plot is fully realized already, and we simply need to stop Zovaal at the Sepulcher within the realm of the First Ones. Simple.

[Varodoc]

That's just your head canon mate, because it supports your Alleria worshipping. Also Chronicles, or more to the point that one picture, has already been lowered to the levels of titan fan fiction, since Blizzard can't stick to a canon to save their lives.

Nope.

The Old Gods are Gods, as is their name, and thus so are the Naaru, as they are their Cosmic counterpart.

This is factually proven by the fact that both of these creatures are worshipped by many races across the cosmos. We see this in Azeroth (Twilight's Hammer Cult), we see this in Draenor (Arakkoa, Lightbound), we see this in Argus (Void Ethereals), etc.

You are trying to deny reality because you hate Alleria.

[TheFirstOnes]

Not 4 or 5, just the Light and Void would be enough.

It would be possible to feature 3 forces. Patch 7.3 of Legion indeed featured 3 forces: the Burning Legion (naturally), the Army of the Light, and the Void in Mac'aree.

A section of the final raid could feature a minion of the Light or the Void trying to stop the Janitor, that would be interesting to see (the creature could either get in our way or try to help us). Or conversely the forces of the Light could come to the Janitor's aid, since it was stated in a whisper that the Light made a bargain with Janitor (the "enemy of all" from the perspective of the Old God N'Zoth).

There is also a precedent of the final patch of an expansion featuring elements that appear in the following expansion (Iron Star in 5.3, Legion in 6.2), so personally it would make sense to feature the Lightbound in some way, since they'll obviously appear in 10.0. Perhaps what the Janitor is trying to do could serve as prelude for an invasion of the Lightbound in MU Azeroth. We also know that the Lightbound are trying to conquer the entire Cosmos, so it makes sense that they would get involved with the Cosmic shenanigans the Janitor is trying to do.

Of course, nothing since patch 8.0 is comparable to patch 7.3, which in my opinion is the best patch in this game's history (at least when it comes to the Lore and Story for certain), but they can try.

Also the next expansion will be Legion 2.0, at least from a hype perspective. So expect the Void Lords to be featured massively. The Void Lords have pretty much been the overarching villains of the franchise since Chronicles came out. As they are the begins responsible for Sargeras' descent into madness and the creation of the Old Gods.

What better time to feature the Void Lords than in the expansion after ShitLands?

Uhm, 7.3 gave us 4, not 3. We literally met the Pantheon of Order...

Anyways, I think Light and Shadow for ANDUIN is enough. Life and Death (Mostly Death) should stay the confines of SL. Hell, we haven't even seen the realms of Life yet, and I'm not even sure we will see that shit this expac, we may see it next expac tbh, which will piss a LOT of people off, but whatever, Blizzard loves to milk WoW so idc anymore. My personal hope is that it's forced into 9.2 so we don't have to go through that plotline anymore, but I've been wrong before.

As for Light and Shadow, my personal ideals is that the Light and Shadow plot is after SL, and we'll battle Sargeras at the Seat of the Pantheon and/or the Realm of Order in some mini raid.

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That's just your head canon mate, because it supports your Alleria worshipping. Also Chronicles, or more to the point that one picture, has already been lowered to the levels of titan fan fiction, since Blizzard can't stick to a canon to save their lives.

What does canon have to do with anything? The Old Gods have always been below the Titans outside of old lore being weird, and Krasus' shit theories of Sargeras' power in comparison to the Old Gods lol.

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Actually, with Shadowlands the Nathrezim/Death are responsible for Sargeras' descent into madness, not the void.

No. It was still the Void. All the Nathrezim did was hasten the process by showing Sargeras a power that literally opposed the Titan's will so much, that Sargeras assumed there was no way of stopping it, all of which would benefit Zovaal's plot of weakening the other Cosmic Pantheons from within.

To say the Nathrezim legit were responsible for Sargeras' descent would be dishonest. Sargeras is still afraid of the Void Lords and their shit. All the Nathrezim did was showcase the "threat".

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Reminder that the Void isn't evil either. They legit work as a force that consumes all things. Sargeras is just too much of a beta to realize that, cause the Dreadlords showed him the crazy stuff, like what the Void could do to a Titan world-soul.

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Arthas already redeemed himself, it is stated that he was the only thing keeping the Lich King from annihilating all of Azeroth. So basically if Arthas wasn't there inside the Lich King, he would have unleashed the Scourge to swarm the world like locusts.

Him coming back naturally would just be nostalgia bait, but really his story arc was already completed.

Even though Arthas will obviously come back (even though he shouldn't), I hope they'll still show the Light and/or the Void in some way. They should send their forces to wherever the Janitor went, since they can't afford Death to unmake reality. The Naaru and Void Lords' got to do something about the Janitor. Maybe Xal'atath could come into play somehow, now that she has a host body.

I find this funny, when you consider all of the LK's choices were Arthas'. So, no, he didn't redeem shit. If anything, Arthas simply held back the TRUE potential of the LK AKA Zovaal's power, which also explains why he was such a massive failure.

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Dude was much weaker than he was supposed to be.

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We are not getting 9.2 till late february/early march at the earliest.

I'm gonna say no on that earliest factor and assume 9.2 will be announced in November, and release in Mid February.

[Nyel]

What do you mean they can't untangle it? Bro, the basis of the plot is fully realized already, and we simply need to stop Zovaal at the Sepulcher within the realm of the First Ones. Simple.

It's simple because you write it as that. But the entire Shadowlands' plot still has no meat to it. "Stop Zovaal" is the entire premise, which is lacking in almost every aspect. The mysterious factor which helps and helped in the past doesn't help in this expansion as everything is kept so hidden and mysterious that people just stop to care alltogether.

What I meant with untangle: get this messy, horrible storytelling right and make one coherent and cohesive story that doesn't feel entirely like a pointless filler plot as it already does. The Tyrande-Nightwarrior-Elune plot shows how they should not resolve open stories in this expansion. They did untangle that, but in the worst way possible.

[TheFirstOnes]

It's simple because you write it as that. But the entire Shadowlands' plot still has no meat to it. "Stop Zovaal" is the entire premise, which is lacking in almost every aspect. What I meant with untangle: get this messy, horrible storytelling right and make one coherent and cohesive story that doesn't feel entirely like a pointless filler plot as it already does.

No one is writing it as that. You yourself literally say that the plot is "stop Zovaal". That is simple. It being lacking in substance doesn't mean it's not simple. You're confusing simple with good here.

SL's plot is easy as fuck to understand. The problem is that the story sucks, and we know nothing of the Villain directly to give a shit about him.

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All of SL is explanations with no show. I hope the Sepulcher of the First Ones looks cool.

[Cherry123]

i expect the worst

- In February we have 9.2 cinematic with no release date

- Two months later, we have a release date for PTR 9.2

- Three months later, we have patch 9.2 on live servers.

- October-november we have patch 9.2.5 (like 9.0.5 and 9.1.5)

- February 2023 we have a new expansion cinematic (no release date)

- Two months later we have a PTR

- November 2023 - expansion is released to live servers

[Sondrelk]

i expect the worst

-In February we have 9.2 cinematic with no release date

- Two months later, we have a release date for PTR 9.2

-Three months later, we have patch 9.2 on live servers.

- october-november we have patch 9.2.5 (like 9.0.5 and 9.1.5)

- February 2023 we have a new expansion cinematic (no release date)

- two months later we have a PTR

- November 2023 - expansion is released to live servers

And 9.1 will release in August. And 8.3 is cancelled. BfA is going to be delayed a year and WoD is the final expansion ever.

9.2 is Mid-to-late February early March is still the most likely scenario.

[ExiHext]

If old gods are gods does kinder chocolate contain real children?
Come on, void fanboy. You can't be that dense.

[Cherry123]

And 9.1 will release in August. And 8.3 is cancelled. BfA is going to be delayed a year and WoD is the final expansion ever.

9.2 is Mid-to-late February early March is still the most likely scenario.

If 9.2 comes out in February, they need to release PTR this year, but I don't see a chance for PTR this year

[Varodoc]

i expect the worst

- In February we have 9.2 cinematic with no release date

- Two months later, we have a release date for PTR 9.2

- Three months later, we have patch 9.2 on live servers.

- October-november we have patch 9.2.5 (like 9.0.5 and 9.1.5)

- February 2023 we have a new expansion cinematic (no release date)

- Two months later we have a PTR

- November 2023 - expansion is released to live servers

This is madness. This is suicidal. No one likes ShitLands and we're all pretty much just waiting for 10.0, so they'd be wise not to take that long for it.

Rush it if need be, if the hype and advertising are massive (like it was for WoD) then most people won't notice that it was rushed initially and they can brag about the sales to Activision.

[Lahis]

This is madness. This is suicidal. No one likes ShitLands and we're all pretty much just waiting for 10.0, so they'd be wise not to take that long for it.

Rush it if need be, if the hype and advertising are massive (like it was for WoD) then most people won't notice that it was rushed initially and they can brag about the sales to Activision.

They can't rush it. Rushing out 3rd bad expansion in row would kill what's left of the game.

[Varodoc]

They can't rush it. Rushing out 3rd bad expansion in row would kill what's left of the game.

Shadowlands running until the end of 2023 will kill the game.

There's never been an expansion that lasted for 3 years, and frankly of all expansions ShitLands DEFINITELY shouldn't last for 3 years.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Dragging out the expansion would be the only option, honestly.

Unless they want to cut & run and hope that their production pipeline can return to normal by next expansion launch. But, it could also just escalate to another terrible production environment and the crunch will most likely churn so many that post-launch will be in the same state.

Even trying to get back to a regular schedule while also pleasing the corporate overlords is a good idea. It could just create even worse issues ahead. 2 Year Cycle is probably going to stick though at least if the corporate side gets what they want even if they could've realized the long term problems with the current scheduling with employee crunch being a consistent problem.

[Sondrelk]

If 9.2 comes out in February, they need to release PTR this year, but I don't see a chance for PTR this year

Why not? 9.1.5 will likely release this month or early November at a stretch. That leaves a good month and a bit at the very least to start the 9.2 PTR.

The stuff in this patch is mostly just reused assets and system changes. The developers responsible for stuff like world and quest design are already working on future content, and for that matter have been at least since 9.1 released.

9.1.5 releases, we get a quick livestream about the future of WoW, PTR comes up quickly afterwards, then a standard 8-10 week PTR (+holiday weeks).
There is absolutely nothing showing this isn't a likely outcome other than doomsaying. Even considering delays it would fit perfectly.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Why not? 9.1.5 will likely release this month or early November at a stretch. That leaves a good month and a bit at the very least to start the 9.2 PTR.

The stuff in this patch is mostly just reused assets and system changes. The developers responsible for stuff like world and quest design are already working on future content, and for that matter have been at least since 9.1 released.

9.1.5 releases, we get a quick livestream about the future of WoW, PTR comes up quickly afterwards, then a standard 8-10 week PTR (+holiday weeks).
There is absolutely nothing showing this isn't a likely outcome other than doomsaying. Even considering delays it would fit perfectly.

Honestly this will happen, I believe. I don't believe in the Front Facing stuff though, the lawsuit will most likely leave the situation untenable to have anyone show themselves in a livestream environment. We probably just get another blog post in mid November and then the PTR goes up the next week after that.

[Sondrelk]

Dragging out the expansion would be the only option, honestly.

Unless they want to cut & run and hope that their production pipeline can return to normal by next expansion launch. But, it could also just escalate to another terrible production environment and the crunch will most likely churn so many that post-launch will be in the same state.

Depends heavily on how much Blizzard can cut out from Shadowlands. If they manage to combine the content made for 9.2 with the plot from 9.3 successfully then they could easily get back on track. The expansion would likely not release the usual Q3 timeslot, but launching sometime similar to Shadowlands in Q4 Blizzard could absolutely get back on track without too much of an issue.