Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Verdugo]

Danuser, not content that Sylvanas got only one new model per patch, requested that she gets at least two this time.

[Makorus]

Am I the only one not mad at the cinematic? Of all ways to partially redeem Sylvanas but still punish her, this was probably the best compromise.

To me, this is not a full redemption at all and that's the whole point of this video: it doesn't matter the best part of her soul was gone or locked away, those were still HER actions. They were unforgivable and she realises (and accepts?) she will have to pay for them and face consequences.

I don't know, I was expecting to hate whatever they'd come up with regarding Sylvanas, and I kind of like this. Let's wait and see, hoping they don't screw it up with the last chapter.

When people say "I hope Sylvanas doesn't get redeemed!" what they actually mean is "I don't want Sylvanas to show up ever again". Simple as that.

Nothing in the cinematic indicates redemption. Sylvanas herself admits that she doesn't deserve or even wants redemption.

The only people who don't want her to get executed on the spot are Uther and maybe Bolvar, and that's because they were not affected by Sylvanas. Thrall, Jaina and Baine clearly couldn't care less.

Now, we don't know what is coming, but so far, the only "redemption" there is, is that she is the only person who can "cure" Anduin. Thrall and the rest are not keeping Sylvanas around because they like her again, they are doing that because they need her.

Also: I really love the new artstyle in cinematics, but it feels off and I can't tell you why.

[Kiivar86]

Am I the only one not mad at the cinematic? Of all ways to partially redeem Sylvanas but still punish her, this was probably the best compromise.

To me, this is not a full redemption at all and that's the whole point of this video: it doesn't matter the best part of her soul was gone or locked away, those were still HER actions. They were unforgivable and she realises (and accepts?) she will have to pay for them and face consequences.

I don't know, I was expecting to hate whatever they'd come up with regarding Sylvanas, and I kind of like this. Let's wait and see, hoping they don't screw it up with the last chapter.

I actually really enjoyed the cinematic, though I did find Sylvanas' living model off somehow. But minor quibble.

This is actually one of the first things to give me some hope in regards to this. Still not expecting much but its a start, at least to me.

[EbaumsTipster]

Nathanos hunt is not the ending I expected for Sylvanas but it keeps her alive like Illidan while also out of the story.

Will she be the one judged at the end now that she isn’t dead?

[Super Dickmann]

I imagine that might be the best ending for her character at this point. She doesnt get redemption, she doesnt get to return to Azeroth, and she doesnt really taint the story at all with her presence.
Even for Tyrande it should be a fitting end. She doesnt get direct vengeance, but she can feel confident Sylvanas will never come back to Azeroth again.

This would actually be a tolerable ending. She doesn't die but she also doesn't return to Azeroth, she's removed from the plot but with the possibility to come back, it hearkens back to Tyrande calling her out in 9.1. Congratulations, you've cracked the code. With her in retirement we can get on with it without saddling the plot with everyone telling her they love her now.

In other news, the fact that Anduin ends up being completely pointless to resolving the issue of the Bald Man mind controlling everyone and they do actually go to the Primus, the most experienced guy there, to fix it was a pleasant surprise. For once Our Treasure isn't the cure to all the world's ills. He is of course completely unchanged after being Satan's sockpuppet, which is great, since I won the bet on how He'd be entirely unchanged from this chain of events.

Also thank fuck they put Sylvanas back in a variant of her classic outfit instead of the literally and morally grey eyesore they saddled her with while she was part of the Bald Man's posse.

[draugril]

Am I the only one not mad at the cinematic?

I'm not mad at it. Nor am I happy with it. I am completely indifferent. I've said my piece about what I think of the trajectory of WoW's story. I don't see that trajectory being influenced by me or anyone external to Blizzard, so why waste the emotional energy hoping for something that is very unlikely to happen? Honestly, I'm just waiting for a pleasant surprise - I've not had one in years. I only feel a twinge of small sadness when I think about it. WoW is now that distant friend who you would like to reconnect with, but also realize that they've changed and the person you miss no longer exists. This stuff happens. That's life. It's accepted. No use bemoaning it at every opportunity.

[Yarathir]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMcU1zWnws4

The new crown looks like trash.

I saw somebody post this on discord:
"destroys an iconic piece from WC3 and turns it into a tacky, ugly, unnecessary 'better' version none asked for"
And that sums up nuWoW lore pretty well I'd say. Good metaphor.

[Verdugo]

I saw somebody post this on discord:
"destroys an iconic piece from WC3 and turns it into a tacky, ugly, unnecessary 'better' version none asked for"
And that sums up nuWoW lore pretty well I'd say. Good metaphor.

I already expect Aeluron Lightsong to come here and tell us how it looks cool and he doesnt understand whats the big deal.

[shoc]

When people say "I hope Sylvanas doesn't get redeemed!" what they actually mean is "I don't want Sylvanas to show up ever again". Simple as that.

Nothing in the cinematic indicates redemption. Sylvanas herself admits that she doesn't deserve or even wants redemption.

The only people who don't want her to get executed on the spot are Uther and maybe Bolvar, and that's because they were not affected by Sylvanas. Thrall, Jaina and Baine clearly couldn't care less.

Now, we don't know what is coming, but so far, the only "redemption" there is, is that she is the only person who can "cure" Anduin. Thrall and the rest are not keeping Sylvanas around because they like her again, they are doing that because they need her.

Also: I really love the new artstyle in cinematics, but it feels off and I can't tell you why.

You can want a character to die and never return for their own sake. Good characters have good arcs, and you can't have an arc without an ending. Arthas has a beginning, a middle and an end. Garrosh has a beginning, a middle and an end. They are complete stories. Sylvanas' Arc is like Mr Bones Wild Ride, it never ends and you don't know where it's going.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You can want a character to die and never return for their own sake. Good characters have good arcs, and you can't have an arc without an ending. Arthas has a beginning, a middle and an end. Garrosh has a beginning, a middle and an end. They are complete stories. Sylvanas' Arc is like Mr Bones Wild Ride, it never ends and you don't know where it's going.

I'm personally done with Sylvanas but if for some reason the entire warcraft fanbase claimed for more Sylvanas, its hard not to do that. Its how must superhero stuff lives on. And people see "start middle end" differently to.

[Makorus]

You can want a character to die and never return for their own sake. Good characters have good arcs, and you can't have an arc without an ending. Arthas has a beginning, a middle and an end. Garrosh has a beginning, a middle and an end. They are complete stories. Sylvanas' Arc is like Mr Bones Wild Ride, it never ends and you don't know where it's going.

Don't get me wrong, it is time to retire the Sylvanas character.

But I wish people would drop the false facade of "Oh, I just don't want her redeemed". People don't want an ending for her, people want her to just disappear.

[Nyel]

Someone pointed out, and I wonder if this might actually be the "best" end to Sylvanas.
What if at the end of Shadowlands we just leave Sylvanas in the Shadowlands to search for Nathanos. She doesnt come back, she doesnt get a fancy new title. She is just left in exile in the Shadowlands searching for Nathanos and we never see or hear from her again?

But we will see her again. If they leave her untouched, she's about to come back sooner or later. That's the point to keep her, isn't it?

[olddog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMcU1zWnws4

The new crown looks like trash.

Oh....God...



no.....

Blizzard...please stop this madness.

[Nyel]

Yeah I think they should have had her in the background for an expansion or two with just voice lines and trickles of lore about the jailer to get us used to him. Then give him much more screen time.

Exactly. She should have said some mysterious sh*t years ago, maybe not calling out Zovaal but saying something about a greater being of death or whatever. I mean this expansion, while technically Zovaal > Sylvanas, was Sylvanas > Zovaal with maybe factor 2:1. The entire exposure Sylvanas gets should have been focused on the Jailer instead.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh wow, Bolvar got some lines in this patch, outstanding.

[Super Dickmann]

Exactly. She should have said some mysterious sh*t years ago, maybe not calling out Zovaal but saying something about a greater being of death or whatever. I mean this expansion, while technically Zovaal > Sylvanas, was Sylvanas > Zovaal with maybe factor 2:1. The entire exposure Sylvanas gets should have been focused on the Jailer instead.

This entire plot hinges upon Sylvanas' interaction with the Jailer and how her view of death and her status relative to him changes as a result of seeing his endgame. The writing, from the way she explains her plans, to how he's presented and her moment of turning on him are all written through the lens of this groundwork being there. However, he didn't exist until 2 years ago and Sylvanas' prior status with him is something we're informed about only in the context of this expansion, when that status is no longer in place. It's a sequel building off material that doesn't exist or, with the upcoming book, may possibly exist after the entire plot has already run its course. It's uncanny.

Also hot fucking damn that new crown is hideous, even in the context of it just being a glorified key to open up the last wing. I do appreciate though that after the entire rigamarole about needing Sylvanas to save Anduin and then needing Anduin to fight the Bald Man the entire issue ends up being solved by the Primus and the DKs while those two contribute nothing. Sadly the characters won't take this opportunity to dunk the pair into Hell once they realize this.

[ExiHext]

Am I the only one not mad at the cinematic? Of all ways to partially redeem Sylvanas but still punish her, this was probably the best compromise.

To me, this is not a full redemption at all and that's the whole point of this video: it doesn't matter the best part of her soul was gone or locked away, those were still HER actions. They were unforgivable and she realises (and accepts?) she will have to pay for them and face consequences.

I don't know, I was expecting to hate whatever they'd come up with regarding Sylvanas, and I kind of like this. Let's wait and see, hoping they don't screw it up with the last chapter.

No, you are not. I like it, too. The thing is sh*tting on SL's story has become prevalent because people like being edgy it seems. At this point I ignore that constant bitching...it's like background noise to me.

Edit: Seeing how people get already mad at the crown is a perfect example...perhaps they should wait for WotLK servers to live their nostalgia. I couldn't care less about the crown or the helm...but there will surely be someone swinging the fanboi bat soon.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Its not for the Lich King anymore, the helm is mostly for the arbiter role now.

[ExiHext]

Its not for the Lich King anymore, the helm is mostly for the arbiter role now.

But..but...my precious helm!!!111

[Raetary]

I don't necessarily mind the fact that they changed the crown, but good god the new model is bad.


They could've at the very least kept the Silhouette.
Idk why they needed to turn it into some weird Tiara-esque thing.

Its not for the Lich King anymore, the helm is mostly for the arbiter role now.

Ah yes, its not for the LK anymore, so the terrible design is justified.

Lul, alright.

[UndedoKoleda]

Am I the only one not mad at the cinematic? Of all ways to partially redeem Sylvanas but still punish her, this was probably the best compromise.

To me, this is not a full redemption at all and that's the whole point of this video: it doesn't matter the best part of her soul was gone or locked away, those were still HER actions. They were unforgivable and she realises (and accepts?) she will have to pay for them and face consequences.

I don't know, I was expecting to hate whatever they'd come up with regarding Sylvanas, and I kind of like this. Let's wait and see, hoping they don't screw it up with the last chapter.

Next expansion should be about the Horde and Alliance starting a journey to find a way to split Sylvanas' soul again, so they can properly punish whichever part burned the damn tree, plague bombed Undercity, killed Saurfang and nearly split the Horde for second time. Someone has to answer for all these.

I, personally, will be rooting for a beheading in front of the gates of Orgrimmar.