Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Varodoc]

So the player character does not defy the whispers?

No. The whole point of the Shadow Priest spec is that they can only stay in Void form for a very brief period of time before going back to normal. Alleria and the Ren'dorei are essentially in Void form perpetually.

The only Player Character who defies the whispers Canonically is the Ren'dorei PC. Everyone else is either a Shadow Priest who uses an actual Void form just for a few seconds, or someone who doesn't use the Void at all.

The Shadow Priest spec in built in a way that the PC literally starts growing tentacles and other abnormal things out of their bodies whenever they use Void form (in the Warcraft universe, if someone grows massive tentacles, it means they are going insane) and they can literally pick a talent called "Surrender to Madness", what do you think Blizzard had in mind when designing this spec? Very clearly not the idea of a Void user who is lucid and maintains their composure.

The only player character who defies the whispers, like Alleria, is a Void elf who is RP'd as one of the transformed elves (so not one of the scholars and such, who would also count as "Ren'dorei; Children of the Void" but were not biologically transformed by the Void).

[Hitei]

No. The whole point of the Shadow Priest spec is that they can only stay in Void form for a very brief period of time before going back to normal. Alleria and the Ren'dorei are essentially in Void form perpetually.

No? Hello?

The Shadow Priest spec in built in a way that the PC literally starts growing tentacles and other abnormal things out of their bodies whenever they use Void form (in the Warcraft universe, if someone grows massive tentacles, it means they are going insane) and they can literally pick a talent called "Surrender to Madness", what do you think Blizzard had in mind when designing this spec? Very clearly not the idea of a Void user who is lucid and maintains their composure.

That is the exact opposite of what the spec implies, which is that the player knows exactly how much void can be safely wielded. The fact that they can "literally pick a talent called "Surrender to Madness"" should tell you that they are quite capable of resisting the call of the void and managing the whispers; they can willingly surrender to them for more power.

The fundamental spec mechanic is deliberately building and then releasing insanity, which is exactly what Alleria does every time she uses her powers and has to deal with the whispers telling her to kill everyone.

[Varodoc]

Because apparently this needs to be explained here.

Alleria CHOOSES whether she's going to use her normal fair form or her Void form.

The Shadow Priest CAN'T choose that, literally just play one (since nothing can be taken for granted here, Shadow form =/= Void form btw).

Those here who disagree with me disagree with Canon. I won't repeat myself.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/races/void-elf

It is Canonically stated that Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal in the history of the Cosmos to successfully defy the Shadows' whispers. What this means is that, Canonically, ALL those who wielded the Void before her, did not successfully defy it.

[Hitei]

Because apparently this needs to be explained.

Alleria CHOOSES whether she's going to use her normal fair form or her Void form.

The Shadow Priest CAN'T choose that, literally just play one (since nothing can be taken for granted here, Shadow form =/= Void form btw).

Those here who disagree with me disagree with Canon. I won't repeat myself.

The player chooses to enter both Shadow AND Void form. What are you even arguing here? Also, a random fucking advertisement blurb on the site is not the arbitrator of canon.

[Raetary]

Oh great, another round of Alleria circlejerk.
As if we haven't had enough of those.

Can we go back to discussing what constitutes a machine? That was a significantly less annoying topic.

[Hitei]

Oh great, another round of Alleria circlejerk.
As if we haven't had enough of those.

Can we go back to discussing what constitutes a machine? That was a significantly less annoying topic.

I would like to know why you think a mechanical array counts as a machine, and an electrical array counts as a machine, but for some reason a magical array does not.

[Varodoc]

The player chooses to enter both Shadow AND Void form. What are you even arguing here? Also, a random fucking advertisement blurb on the site is not the arbitrator of canon.

False.

Everything that is written in the Official website is Official and thus part of the Official Canon.

And you don't really "choose" whether to enter Void form or not, unless you don't know how to play the spec or are griefing your group.

[Makabreska]

I would like to know why you think a mechanical array counts as a machine, and an electrical array counts as a machine, but for some reason a magical array does not.

Y'all need 10.0 leaks.

- - - Updated - - -

And you don't really "choose" whether to enter Void form or not, unless you don't know how to play the spec or are griefing your group.

Yes you do pal. As of 9.0 Void Form is a CD.

[Hitei]

And you don't really "choose" whether to enter Void form or not, unless you don't know how to play the spec or are griefing your group.

This is just about the stupidest logic I've ever read.

So according to you, canonically, every player shaman in the game is being mind controlled by the elements and is forced to use totems, because non-retarded players use their totems to maximize DPS and utility? Every guardian druid is insane and HAS to be in bear form, because playing the spec involves being in bear form and you'd just be griefing your group to pull in caster? Canonically, to you, all Demon Hunters absolutely must shoot lasers out of their eyes every 30 seconds, they do not choose to.

Stop. This is embarrassing to even read.

[Ersula]

It is Canonically stated that Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal in the history of the Cosmos to successfully defy the Shadows' whispers. What this means is that, Canonically, ALL those who wielded the Void before her, did not successfully defy it.

Yeah yeah yeah she defied them in 7.3 then failed to defy them in 7.3.5. Clearly its not a one-and-done sort of thing.

- - - Updated - - -

Everything that is written in the Official website is Official and thus part of the Official Canon.

As long as we ignore everytime they revised the official website, or the devs reconned something.

- - - Updated - - -

So based on what we see in Zareth Mortis, is everything originally machine in origin & it's the old-gods's curse that made all flesh? Wouldn't that imply the Old Gods are the only reason free-will exists in this universe??

[Makorus]

Because apparently this needs to be explained here.

Alleria CHOOSES whether she's going to use her normal fair form or her Void form.

The Shadow Priest CAN'T choose that, literally just play one (since nothing can be taken for granted here, Shadow form =/= Void form btw).

Those here who disagree with me disagree with Canon. I won't repeat myself.

I like how you don't go into my point about Alleria did not defy or even shows any kind of mastery when she almost destroyed Silvermoon. Didn't do a good job defying it back then, huh?

She is literally called a Vessel in the same quest. She thinks she is in control but everything that happens proves that she is not.

[Ersula]

She is literally called a Vessel in the same quest. She thinks she is in control but everything that happens proves that she is not.

It's fitting her stans are in as much denial as she is. Look on the bright side, when she goes genocidal she has a slightly-more credible argument that it wasn't her fault than Sylvanas is getting.

[Hitei]

So based on what we see in Zareth Mortis, is everything originally machine in origin & it's the old-gods's curse that made all flesh? Wouldn't that imply the Old Gods are the only reason free-will exists in this universe??

That has sort of always been the implication when it comes to ordered worlds. The titans just make slave-constructs and then the curse of flesh turns them into real people with individual desires who no longer listen to the hierarchy.

[Sondrelk]

It's fitting her stans are in as much denial as she is. Look on the bright side, when she goes genocidal she has a slightly-more credible argument that it wasn't her fault than Sylvanas is getting.

I mean, even she is more Cognizant that she is one slipup away from losing control, so even she is more aware of her shortcomings than her diehard fans.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I like how people are getting into the topic of Free Will and Determinism. But completely missing the whole point of the whole Free Will / Determinism is why the Warcraft Universe isn't perfect.

Which faction of the Universe is the only one that produce non Free Willed beings? The Pantheon of Orders' minions. We could explore this more deepy if people want, obviously there are some other forces that seem to be questionable like the Swarm like Primal version of Life do they have Free Will or are they just parasitically expanding until they end up murdered by evolution of other species which are a byproduct of Life and has free will?

Every other faction leads to free will beings and the most important and biggest clue to this whole thing is the Old Gods of Azeroth and Yogg-Sarons' epithet of being the God of Death when obviously he is not and obviously he was birthed from the Void and they see Death as the ultimate enemy. Which also hinted at the whole Death -> Azeroth thingiemajig upon his demise.

I don't think everything is Machines or Code. I do think that the reason for why the Universe is fucked has very much to do with the Territory Fighting which seemingly stems from Free Will being imposed on everything and again the only reason this happened is most likely some Bigger God/Creator doing the Prometheus thing out of the goodness of their heart. But, it fucked up the entire universe and threw it into chaos mode.

Unless, we go with the whole Simulation Theory and the Discord / Chaos (Whatever fucked the Universe up) was intentional for the Simulation. But again, derp.

Even then, I don't know maybe the Free Will is just a red herring. There is probably Titanforged that goes against their programming and then you can ask if the malfunction is the Free Will bug in the matrix. But, again.

[Varodoc]

Yeah yeah yeah she defied them in 7.3 then failed to defy them in 7.3.5. Clearly its not a one-and-done sort of thing.

- - - Updated - - -

As long as we ignore everytime they revised the official website, or the devs reconned something.

- - - Updated - - -

So based on what we see in Zareth Mortis, is everything originally machine in origin & it's the old-gods's curse that made all flesh? Wouldn't that imply the Old Gods are the only reason free-will exists in this universe??

The Official website and all that is written in it is Canon.

So Canonically Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal in the history of the Cosmos to successfully defy the Shadows' whispers, as reported by Blizzard on their Official website.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

As always Old Gods are not the only source of Free Will in the universe. Primal Life aka Life can lead to evolution of species that have free will as seen with Draenor.

[Civciv]

"successfully"...... About that honey

[Varodoc]

"successfully"...... About that honey

Neltharion with just A WHISPER from N'Zoth turned into a complete monster of destruction.

Garrosh with a marginally moderate amount of Void energy was batshit insane and thought it was his destiny to rule Azeroth.

Ner'zhul with an unknown but likely small amount of Void energy was crazy and tried to commit genocide on an entire people.

Alleria with a massive amount of Void energy, coming from the essence of a Void Naaru that literally blasted and entered her body and merged with her, remains loyal to the Alliance, works to protect the Alliance citizens, and gave food and blankets to a bunch of refugees.

It is stated by N'Zoth that "a whisper" was all he needed to corrupt Neltharion; meanwhile Alleria and the Ren'dorei hear COUNTLESS whispers all day long FROM THE VOID LORDS (N'Zoth's superiors), yet they remain good and loyal to the Alliance.

I'd say it's obvious who defied the whispers and who succumbed to them here, even if Blizzard didn't already confirm that (as if it needed any confirming ).

[Makorus]

OK but what happened at the Sunwell again?