Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[delphiskye]

also movie Everything Everywhere All at Once is out got 97 on rotten tomatoes

[Teriz]

Sylvanas is not a playable class in WoW. The weapon procs / actives are a false equivalency.

But her HotS abilities are in WoW, as are Gazlowe's. You said what works in a MOBA doesn't work in WoW, yet we have multiple examples of MOBA/RTS abilities working just fine in WoW.

Wailing Arrow, Withering Force, Sundering, Crash Lightning, Frostwyrm's Fury, The Hunt, and other abilities are usable by WoW classes.

Death Pact, Death Coil, Unholy Frenzy, Raise Dead, Drunken Haze, Drunken Brawler, Breath of Fire, SEF, Metamorphosis, Hex, Chain Lightning, Feral Spirit, Infernal, Avatar, StarFall, and hundreds of other abilities came from the WC3 RTS, which is where MOBAs come from. In other words, not only can MOBA/RTS abilities work in WoW, MOBA/RTS abilities form the basis of WoW abilities, talents, and passives.

Chromie's entire kit is based around using time traps to freeze enemies, primarily other heroes, in place so that she can connect difficult to aim skillshots that have a nearly 1 second delay before landing. This would not work in WoW. The Sands of Time theme could definitely work, but I suspect it will be a healing spec not a ranged DPS spec.

Why would you apply the exact same tactics in a MMO format that you would a MOBA format? You can give the Bronze spec the exact same abilities, and it would work just fine;

Sand Blast: Fires a missile of sand that deals damage and leaves an echo behind that can mimic the caster's next attack. Echo lasts X seconds.
Dragon's Breath: Launches 3 blasts into the air that lands every x seconds towards the targeted direction.
Time Trap: Places a Time trap at a location that activates after 2 seconds. Enemies caught in the trap are time stopped for 2 seconds. Caster can detonate the trap.
Slowing Sands: Summons a vortex of sand that slows by 10% every X seconds, up to 70%.
Temporal Loop: After 3 seconds, sends a target back to the location where Temporal Loop was originally cast. Caster's abilities recharge more quickly for 3 seconds after casting.
Timewalker: (Passive) Learn talents 2 levels earlier.

Where's the issue? Those abilities fit WoW just fine, and from those 5 abilities you can easily expand the concept.

Here's a good example of a Chronomancer from GW2:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chronomancer

There's definitely plenty of design space left to explore especially from a support standpoint.

This isn't Guild Wars man.

[Dioporco]

6.1 update is so good that i am already sad for Blizzard.

Literally they fixed even PvP which was one of the let down of FF14 since ever.

[Blayze]

If they manage to pull off a Red Mage type of class that switches between melee and ranged, I would love that.

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April 19th feels like it's still so far away. The wait is getting somehow worse the closer we get.

Exactly why I only count workdays when I'm waiting for things; it's only two workdays away for me.

[Teriz]

If the new class (Well, if there is a new class to begin with lol) is a mail user, I hope to fucking god that they remove armor restrictions from transmog, because most mail armor looks so fucken bad

As a Hunter and Shaman player, you are so right.

Ohh, imagine being able to tank as an actual dragon just as druids do with bear, that'd be pretty sick

Exactly.

Alternatively, it could operate like 6.2 demonology did, where you're doing close-range ranged attacks, and you shift into dragon form dealing damage until your resource expires, and then you continue.

I made an example here;


Midway through build-up, you could even have an Apotheosis style form, where you're essentially half dragon;





I loved WoD Demonology, and I would be more than happy to see it make a return.

[Hyrja]

6.1 update is so good that i am already sad for Blizzard.

Literally they fixed even PvP which was one of the let down of FF14 since ever.

Sad that the combat and gameplay feels shit compared to WoW. But enjoy your patch

[Dioporco]

Sad that the combat and gameplay feels shit compared to WoW. But enjoy your patch

That is your opinion

Surely i am enjoying that

[ercarp]

Sad that the combat and gameplay feels shit compared to WoW. But enjoy your patch

The combat in FFXIV is okay-ish once you get to a certain level, and it does vary between Jobs (just like in WoW). It's the story I take issue with; not the quality of it, just that there's way too much of it. I don't think I can ever bring myself to actually read/watch all of it.

[Dioporco]

As a Hunter and Shaman player, you are so right.



Exactly.

Alternatively, it could operate like 6.2 demonology did, where you're doing close-range ranged attacks, and you shift into dragon form dealing damage until your resource expires, and then you continue.

I made an example here;


Midway through build-up, you could even have an Apotheosis style form, where you're essentially half dragon;





I loved WoD Demonology, and I would be more than happy to see it make a return.

Way too similar to DH tanking

[Teriz]

Chromie in HotS is essentially just a uno-card Mage, I dont really see where her kit is unique at all compared to an Arcane Mage.

Her Q and W are as basic abilities as it gets, her E is just a glorified non-attackable Frost Nova + Deepfreeze, and her second Ult is essentially Alter Time but for the enemy.

I disagree. Arcane Mages don't leave echos after they use Arcane blast. Arcane Mages don't have an AoE that hits 3 times. Arcane Mages don't utilize time traps, and I wouldn't consider them like Frost Nova, since Frost Nova is an AoE that freezes. Time Trap is more akin to a Hunter's trap.

I will agree that Temporal Loop is like Alter Time casted on an enemy, but that still makes they very different abilities. Especially since Temporal Loop gives the caster a CD reduction on their abilities.

Further abilities are:

Timewalker's Pursuit: Reduces Activation time of traps, grants vision of area around traps
Here and There: Allows caster to swap location with their echo
Time Out: Places caster in stasis and makes them Invulnerable for up to 5 seconds (yes, similar to Ice Block)
Stuck in a Loop: Teleports target of Temporal Loop a second time after the first teleport, Caster's abilities continue to recharge faster
Blessing of the Bronze: Activate to give caster and all allies 20% increased movement speed and reduces the cooldowns of their abilities for X seconds

These on top of the ability to turn into a dragon during combat, makes a very unique spec.

I think people put far too much emphasis on the word Envoker.

I agree, Envoker is just a mage.

The Class will very likely be called Invoker during development cycles due to it invoking three of the Dragonflights powers.
I doubt they'll go lower or above that and just let the Class sit at 3 specs.

Black: Tank or DPS Agility Melee
Bronze: Ranged/DPS Intelligence Caster

The only important question is if its gonna be Red or Green Dragonflight for the healing spec. I would say that Blue is out since its nothing else but a Mage, and with Ysera being essentially "dead" in Ardenweald (and touching a bit too close to Druids), the only living Dragonflight Leaders we have are Wrathion, Nozdormu and Alexstrasza.

It'll be Red. Red provides a unique healing concept (fire), and Alexstraza is prominently featured on the expansion's promotional material. Possibly even the cover character. Also Alexstraza HotS would form the backbone of a dragon-based class.

Either way, if you cannot transform to a Dragon in Combat, its gonna be rather meh in the end anyway imo, unless the customizations with a Tail, Scales and Horns will make up for it. But knowing Blizzard and with Dragons being too big, and a scaled down Dragon Form looking too weird (not to mention 20 of them in a Raid), it's probably just the Flight Form.

Saying that you cannot transform into a dragon in combat is a silly argument. Nothing mechanically stops Blizzard from implementing something like that into the game, and players would absolutely dig the concept. Obviously you're not going to be the size of Ultraxion, but they can easily make the player a decent-sized dragon during combat.

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Way too similar to DH tanking

Which is like saying that Warrior tanking is too similar to Paladin tanking because both are swinging swords and using shields.

[Civciv]

Both are swinging swords and using shields but they don't use the same abilities. I don't understand the logic you are trying to show

[Teriz]

Both are swinging swords and using shields but they don't use the same abilities. I don't understand the logic you are trying to show

Demon Hunters and Dragonwhatever wouldn't be using the same abilities either. Demon Hunters are melee. Dragonwhatevers would be ranged/casters. Again, like Demonology in 6.2 or Dark Apotheosis in MoP.

[Civciv]

Demon Hunters and Dragonwhatever wouldn't be using the same abilities either. Demon Hunters are melee. Dragonwhatevers would be ranged/casters. Again, like Demonology in 6.2 or Dark Apotheosis in MoP.

Yes, I agree with you on this. I was just confused when you said "both are using sword and shields"

[Dioporco]

Which is like saying that Warrior tanking is too similar to Paladin tanking because both are swinging swords and using shields.

no? because that isnt the playstyle

Warrior are more similar to Druid

pala and dk are more oriented to magic taking




your drawnings suggest a tank with a dragon form uptime like dh, and having a ranged tank would broke the game.


Necrotic with a ranged tank?

[Enrif]

something interesting from the PTR

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...atic_hints_at/

[Marlamin]

something interesting from the PTR

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...atic_hints_at/

I believe we already went over this at the time. Current concensus is it being the seed for the new world tree.

[Teriz]

your drawnings suggest a tank with a dragon form uptime like dh, and having a ranged tank would broke the game.

The DH uptime is based entirely on cooldown. This would operate like Old Demonology where you could pop metamorphosis at any point as long as you had enough resources. The uptime is entirely based on your resource management. The better you can utilize your resource, the longer and more often you can pop Dragon form.

Also, it would be ranged with the relevant tanking abilities being restricted to 10yds, and Dragon form having melee and ranged abilities. Much like the conceptual Apotheosis/Warlock tank from MoP. So it's faux-ranged, not true ranged.

[LalaGamer]

Enough with the Night elves.

[Yusefstrasza]

@Scaleface please give is some new hints

Is the new class a spellcaster?

[Catastrophy349]

Which sounds longer?

We have 5 days until the announcement OR We have 5 days, 5 hours, and 5 minutes until the announcement OR We have 125 hours and 5 minutes until the announcement