Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Ersula]

C-tier MMORPG? You know that ESO is next to WoW one of the Top 4/5 MMORPGs on the market? Pretty sure ESO is generating more cash than WoW solely because of the business model and their atrocious loot boxes.

Wow is about 10% of Activision's 5 billion yearly revenue. That's still 5 times higher than Zenimax's yearly revenue, and that's the entire company. If ESO is the third biggest fantasy mmo that's only because there's a huge gap between it & wow.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

What are you reading into to come to any of these conclusions?

I am not sure what I read.

[Therougetitan]

People arguing over classes is dumb. The next class is obvious. It is a dragon themed class with a tinker spec with piloting a mecha-dragon, a necromancer spec where you raise frostwyrms and a bard spec where you tell epic lore of the dragonflights through song to aid your allies.

[Luck4]

cross faction is in. group through group finder only. could talk in party/raid chat but not in open world or public channels. no xfaction guilds.

If that's the case then this system will be useless. I hope you're wrong because Cross-Faction implementation in 10.0 is more important for me than its theme/setting.

[NikolaiShade]

People arguing over classes is dumb. The next class is obvious. It is a dragon themed class with a tinker spec with piloting a mecha-dragon, a necromancer spec where you raise frostwyrms and a bard spec where you tell epic lore of the dragonflights through song to aid your allies.

Awesome, I want it!

Edit: Clearly it will be called Draconic Tinkmanceard

[Raetary]

If that's the case then this system will be useless. I hope you're wrong because Cross-Faction implementation in 10.0 is more important for me than its theme/setting.

Its pretty much fits with Blizzards usual design decisions though, i can totally see it happening.

[TheFirstOnes]

Very excellent observation, though if I may add, I maintain that the best way to adequately represent the seventh force isn't the summation of all of the forces (i.e. reality), but rather the underlying Hegelian sublation between all of them which permits reality to function. Perhaps it would be sensible, and it could arguably demonstrate more of the overlap between different forces—this would explain, for instance, how delving too deep into Arcane magic invariably leads to the Fel. It would be a very interesting way of bringing in the kind of philosophy they're trying to otherwise portray—they're actually making an interesting attempt at what would be otherwise an unconventional quality of profundity for such an otherwise traditional fantasy setting with few truly unique or surreal elements (i.e. Curse of Flesh).

I'd love to see the whole geometry plot hook explored if they simply made more of an effort to integrate the philosophy into the story and made absolutely, positively certain to do as much research as possible into the theory. It would be very fascinating to see a story like that, and it would fit with some of the more out-there elements in WoW's lore (again, Curse of Flesh).

It's 2 separate songs, prolly one whole song of the 6, and another one of Reality. It does say "The song of the First Ones must not end", and we have "her voice will awaken the others", so one song keeps something asleep (Like Azeroth, which could be the heart of Reality, and the power within it is more than a Titan, but a power that connects in the unionization of all things), and the other keeps the balance of the 6 in tact, a song that the First Ones made for their first specimens of their language (Which is the 6...)

So, it DOES seem like one song is for the intersections, and the OTHER is for the heart of the pattern itself, which could be why the Forces themselves are so antagonistic, and their embodiments so jealous of one another.

Makes me wonder...what are the Light's Pantheons akin to? The "Divine Council" or something?

[Jokubas]

Tinker is never gonna happen we have Engineering

Honestly, Tinker is the only remaining class idea I feel like can't be reasonably done through extra specs or "class skins."

Necromancer works just fine as an overlay for Warlock. Spellbreaker is harder because the ideas are spread out, but Paladin or Warrior (with Spell Reflection) could probably fit well enough with a thorough overlay. Dark Ranger is basically just a Hunter with some shadow abilities (and maybe zombie pets), so it's more of a spec than a full class. Blademaster should be a Warrior spec and I argued that Arms be reimagined in that direction before because Arms and Fury basically have the same theme right now and need better distinction.

Tinker, however, done right should be about Goblins and Gnomes jumping into racially themed mechs and staying that way for the duration of combat and probably as mounts. Kinda like Demon Hunter in the sense of an extremely limited but extremely themed class, but unlike any other class in the reliance on the mechs as a new mechanic. Any other races given Tinker should be chosen very carefully. Perhaps draenei/lightforged draenei due to the Warframes and their other mechs, and maybe blood elves for the blood golems.

While I could see this working in china, no way they would expect to keep their customers in the west with such a business model... right?

I might have said that ten years ago, but nowadays this sort of thing is all over the place in the West. The general idea is basically a battle pass, which seem to be increasingly ubiquitous despite the increasing criticism. I could totally see this happening. The fact that it obviously would lead to a massive controversy isn't even a reason to not expect it, because that hasn't stopped any other company.

A good example of something more in the line of seasonal content rather than battle passes that has continued on despite strong criticism is the payment model of GW2's living world. Between expansions they do updates every two to three months (well, that's their plan anyway, it always goes off schedule) that advance the story, add new maps, and give you little optional things to keep you busy until the next one. In general I'm fine with the content drops (especially since the game is buy-to-play and I can drop into these without any barrier), the problem is how they monetize them. They're free for anyone who logs in while it's the current chapter. The moment it's not, you have to buy it for a cash shop currency.

The problem is that these chapters are crucial parts of the story, yet they don't come with the expansion purchases. A huge criticism is that for any new players, the game markets it like most MMOs "oh just pick up the expansions and you'll be good to go," but doesn't tell you that the story is going to be full of colossal holes if you don't independently put up money (through a cash shop currency) for random chapters buried away in the store. Despite constantly pointing out how this is a confusing and major wall for new players getting invested into the game and story, no changes to the formula have ever been made.

Okay, I'll reword it in a fairer way.

I'm sure there are people in the writing team who actually care and spend hundreds of hours thinking of ways to move the story forward, leaving hints while keeping things vague, and setting up twists and turns. People who then read these forums and are probably hurt to see players react so negatively to their work.

But I'm also certain that some suit will look at a couple of charts, and demand that the next expansion has to be about flying monkeys, and that the current most popular character in the game has to die in the intro, throwing half of what was planned into the bin immediately, and leaving the other half not making any sense.

Yeah. I don't always make sure to get it across, but I've assumed this is how the writing works and try to be polite about it when I think about it. Not only have I heard from writers in the games industry in general that, even in story-focused games, they're treated as the least important team and made to conform to what everyone else is doing, but we know even Chris Metzen didn't have complete control. The Forsaken were created in Warcraft III as a compromise to appease other devs who wanted to be able to play Scourge characters in World of Warcraft, so that whole plotline may not exist if not for that pressure, just as one example we know about.

[TheFirstOnes]

What are you reading into to come to any of these conclusions?

"I hate it when people say this bullshit, as the Xel'naga are simply Titans, but bound to 1 Universe only, cause that's the thing they did for it, making an infinite cycle of a singular plane, with Amon existing in the Void, etc etc."

Ok...I do not mean what I say with that LITERALLY, but they would be MAYBE on that level of power, basically. But yeah, the Firim stuff is what I get in what I say...yes.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Its highly unlikely that leak is even true.

[Teriz]

I mean that would imply ghuun had any freedom

He was a lab specimen

Do you just argue for the sake of arguing?

Origins

G'huun was accidentally created by the titans when they experimented with means to solve the problem posed by the Old Gods. They used Uldir to "try to figure out what makes Old Gods tick," including performing experiments. This led to "some creepy and weird stuff there," and G'huun is the result of years of experiments where the titans couldn't figure out how to cure this Old God disease.[11] When they experimented upon the Old Gods' unending, ravenous need to corrupt, they unexpectedly created a perfect avatar of that desire. G'huun is nothing but rot, pestilence, and decay—the ultimate parasite who cannot stop itself from consuming its host until it is gone.[12] He was locked away in the facility of Uldir, sealed with three seals:[13] Atul'nazman in Nazmir, Atul'Aman in Vol'dun, and the Great Seal of Dazar'alor in Zuldazar. The seal in Atul'Aman was destroyed by Mythrax the Unraveler long ago,[14] while Atul'nazman was damaged by G'huun's minions.[2]

http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog...battle-azeroth

Hence he was imprisoned in Uldir.

- - - Updated - - -

Tinker, however, done right should be about Goblins and Gnomes jumping into racially themed mechs and staying that way for the duration of combat and probably as mounts. Kinda like Demon Hunter in the sense of an extremely limited but extremely themed class, but unlike any other class in the reliance on the mechs as a new mechanic. Any other races given Tinker should be chosen very carefully. Perhaps draenei/lightforged draenei due to the Warframes and their other mechs, and maybe blood elves for the blood golems.

I think Goblin, Vulpera, Gnome, Mechagnoe, Draenei, LF Draenei, Blood Elves, and Nightborne (they have artificers like Draenei) would be the way to go.

[Jokubas]

Its highly unlikely that leak is even true.

Yeah, I don't like the fact that, despite supposedly being written by an employee, it only calls out the two most controversial figures in the forum community. It mentions the scandals, but seems to conveniently ignore that the scandals revealed that people who weren't as well known to the fans were causing lots of trouble.

Still, as I mentioned a few days ago before this topic came up, I'm dreading any business model shift for World of Warcraft. Basically every modern trend in gaming just doesn't gel with me. Not because of my principles (though they usually conflict with that too), but because they really do inherently conflict with my playstyles and how I enjoy things. If anything remotely like this happened I wouldn't leave to protest, I would leave because I legitimately wouldn't be having fun anymore.

[Shadochi]

Do you just argue for the sake of arguing?



http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog...battle-azeroth

Hence he was imprisoned in Uldir.

- - - Updated - - -



I think Goblin, Vulpera, Gnome, Mechagnoe, Draenei, LF Draenei, Blood Elves, and Nightborne (they have artificers like Draenei) would be the way to go.

Literally says 2 sentences earlier that he was created there, thus a lab specimen and later it became his prison.

As for the races, do Vulpera actually dabble in technology more than the regular races? Also if Blood Elves are there, Void Elves should be too as until recently they were just Blood Elves

[Teriz]

Literally says 2 sentences earlier that he was created there, thus a lab specimen and later it became his prison.

Zantheus was implying that it wasn't a prison because he was never free.

As for the races, do Vulpera actually dabble in technology more than the regular races?

Who knows? They're scavengers who take what they can get and make a living out of it. Allowing them to build mechs wouldn't be the craziest thing Blizzard has done. Personally, I would give them Junker-style tech, since it fits their racial style.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Literally says 2 sentences earlier that he was created there, thus a lab specimen and later it became his prison.

As for the races, do Vulpera actually dabble in technology more than the regular races?

I'd say the feeling about them being possible Tinkerers is likely because of their affinity for crafting all sorts of trinkets, and efficient primitive devices.

Maybe the assumption is that they'd pick up Engineering pretty easily, due to the details, organization skills required.

That's of course trying to see beyond obvious, they're tiny lil guys that would fit in a classic Gnome/Goblin mech.

[bruxx]

Literally says 2 sentences earlier that he was created there, thus a lab specimen and later it became his prison.

As for the races, do Vulpera actually dabble in technology more than the regular races? Also if Blood Elves are there, Void Elves should be too as until recently they were just Blood Elves

I think Vulpera is fitting, their whole shtick is being resourceful and using whatever is on hand to survive, it makes a lot of sense to me that some of them would be interested in learning engineering -> battle tinkering

[Gloriandus]

Jailer could mess up Azeroth's world soul so irrevocably that we use whatever wango tango is in the Sepulcher to "fix" her but the means to do it causes the Azeroth we know to be irrevocably changed/different from the one we knew. A "gentle" cataclysm

[Revamp Man]

So the big thing against a dragonsworn class is the covenants and the “I wanna be a dwagon”

I think there’s a solution and knowing blizz going ham when they need to we might get it
Dragon race
Talonguard class
Dragonsworn system

[Luck4]

Its pretty much fits with Blizzards usual design decisions though, i can totally see it happening.

The faction imbalance is happening because of Mythic raids, if they don't enable cross-faction guilds people would still need to change their faction from Alliance to Horde to be able to raid since you can't list Mythic on Premade Group Finder before Hall of Fame is closed, and even if Mythic becomes available in Premade Group Finder on its first week, I doubt that any raid leader would like the headache to invite a member of the raid group in another faction every day through Premade Group Finder.

If people would still feel the need to change factions to do Mythic raids, then this system is pointless/useless, since it doesn't solve the problem.

[Jokubas]

Admittedly, it could be referring to the First Ones—all it really means is a reference to the "Watch and the Watchmaker" theological argument, which proves the existence of God via complexity.

Ah, okay. I was actually sort of interested in the idea of something behind even the First Ones. I mean, I really don't like how much this has escalated, but at this point I was morbidly curious as to what they'd do with something like that.

I meant to follow up on this when I mentioned the writers not having a lot of freedom, but there is also is a lot of subjectivity to storytelling. Personally I see a lot of modern trends in Warcraft's writing that could have been demanded from higher up, but are common enough to just as easily be something the writers plan on doing. The escalation in general, for one, is something that's pretty universal right now.

It's interesting seeing people view Lord of the Rings for the first time, and be confused or frustrated at how little magic Gandalf uses. In a lot of ways he helped define what a wizard was, but fiction as a whole, audience expectations as a whole, not just a singular work, have changed a lot since the books were written.

It's an issue I see in tabletop games as well. I recently saw a discussion where someone was wondering how they could help mundane classes keep up with the wizards. Someone brought up some "anime" techniques like blade beams or other similar feats (that are superhuman by real life standards, but considered non-magical in their respective universes) and dismissed it because it's too immersion breaking for the tabletop crowd invested more in simulation. I couldn't help notice a certain ironic elephant in the room, because wizards themselves have crossed that line, we've just gotten used to it.

Wizards are basically just superheroes these days, but they didn't used to be. Magic used to be rare and difficult. Magic required time, rituals, reagents. It was based on folklore and while it didn't expect you to think magic was real, it was often inspired by things people believed at some time. It was more than real, but there was still something grounded about it. Now wizards are just casual reality warpers, but we're not consistent about allowing that shift to apply to anyone else.

It's not always just wizards though. A good Warcraft example is comparing the Warcraft III teaser to the Legion cinematic. In the former, a single Infernal massacres a human and an orc as a strong symbol. In the latter, Varian can carve through a giant piece of solid rock with one swing of his sword. He's a superhero compared to what existed in Warcraft III.

Anyway, my point is that while I don't want to be rude to the writers, especially if something isn't even their fault, there are still things I'm not liking about the story that could be entirely intended. I don't like overly explained cosmologies. I don't like "deep" philosophical things either, because nine times out of ten it's just nonsense hiding behind complexity to look smarter than it is. I want some more grounded plots because they avoid both of those things, and more.