Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[KainneAbsolute]

In a Light/Void expansion we will discover they are components of the same original beings and we are going to fight the true evil: the Xel Naga!

[Catastrophy349]

Introducing Choice Factions like Scryer/Aldor....Void and Light!

- - - Updated - - -

Introducing Choice Factions like Scryer/Aldor....Void and Light!

I think if implemented well, choosing a side could be really fun!

[Jokubas]

There was a brief period in which I thought they might end the faction war, only to replace it with a Light and Void war, or even just have the Alliance and Horde be sort of changed to represent the Light and Void, but ever since the Alliance got the Void Elves and Alleria was touched by the Void when the Alliance is the faction of Light-worshippers, I figured that was going out the window. As a Covenant-style choice is still works though.

[Catastrophy349]

While we are discussing Void/Light stuff, let's entertain that this image is real. What would you like for the EoD expansion?

[Teriz]

There was a brief period in which I thought they might end the faction war, only to replace it with a Light and Void war, or even just have the Alliance and Horde be sort of changed to represent the Light and Void, but ever since the Alliance got the Void Elves and Alleria was touched by the Void when the Alliance is the faction of Light-worshippers, I figured that was going out the window. As a Covenant-style choice is still works though.

It's just extremely goofy to make such cosmic forces into expansion themes. There's simply no point to it, because when it ends and you supposedly defeat the cosmic forces, where do you go from there? That's pretty much the end of the road. Again, you might as well make a good/evil expansion.

[Jokubas]

While we are discussing Void/Light stuff, let's entertain that this image is real. What would you like for the EoD expansion?

1) Completely Unlikely but Completely Perfect Empire of Dragons (or any expansion) for Me
Playable ogres and naga, showing off the new customization tech that allows them to do unusual body elements, in this case two heads and snake tails. Playable Spellbreaker/Magic Breaker class available at least to ogres. I have no idea how this would tie into an Empire of Dragons, but I wouldn't care if I got those things.

2) Still Ridiculous but Slightly Less Pie-in-the-Sky Desire for Empire of Dragons (largely a wishlist, but not entirely)
Turns out it's Goria, "Land of the Ogres, Empire of Dragons". We go to the ogre continent and find out those oversized rylak saddles from Ogre Archaeology were never for rylaks to begin with, but for a race of massive Draenor dragons we never knew existed because they were only on the ogre continent. The ogres worship the Void like Cho'gall and are at war with Yrel's Lightbound. This war affects us somehow. We get playable ogres.

3) A Compromise for Empire of Dragons that I Would Settle For
Elune is finally introduced in full, and we find out a lot more about her. Her connection to Ysera is much grander than we knew. Elune isn't just the creator of the Prime Naaru, but also the original progenitor of dragons. Her duality between creating beings of Light and her dark, Night Warrior side (which she arguably shares with the naaru) is much more apparent in this land of dragons. The Voidy elements lead to playable ogres through their history with the Twilight's Hammer. >_>

4) Minimalist Desires for Empire of Dragons
At least new races or a new class.

That's basically it for wants. I'm not really interested in a dragon expansion on its own, which is why I've had more fun discussing the logo itself and not particularly invested in it being real.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

While we are discussing Void/Light stuff, let's entertain that this image is real. What would you like for the EoD expansion?

Avoid power related gameplay, if it includes dragons that is, theres fairly obvious stuff. I'm not feeling super creative atm so yeah.

[Teriz]

While we are discussing Void/Light stuff, let's entertain that this image is real. What would you like for the EoD expansion?

Like I already said; Wrathion leading an army of twilight dragons. Possibly backed by Xal'atath. Them almost consuming a weakened Azeroth in corruption. Us fighting back using Titan tech to some capacity. Maybe even having to construct a new dragon soul to stop them.

[Jokubas]

It's just extremely goofy to make such cosmic forces into expansion themes. There's simply no point to it, because when it ends and you supposedly defeat the cosmic forces, where do you go from there? That's pretty much the end of the road. Again, you might as well make a good/evil expansion.

Yeah, I never really wanted them to go there, but when the Chronicle initially seemed to re-pitch Warcraft as ultimately a fight to keep the Void Lords from devouring all existence, and I stopped believing they would allow cross-faction play, there were a few other places I thought they might go.

[Hitei]

Like I already said; Wrathion leading an army of twilight dragons. Possibly backed by Xal'atath. Them almost consuming a weakened Azeroth in corruption. Us fighting back using Titan tech to some capacity. Maybe even having to construct a new dragon soul to stop them.

So void enemies.

[catalystical]

My question for a void/light expansion is rather simple; What exactly is the antagonist in such an expansion? The Void? Some corrupted Naaru? I believe that theme is simply too broad and too vast to make into a viable expansion concept. You might as well say we're making a "Good/Evil" expansion.

We don't need to overthink this. Power and control are perfectly good and believable reasons for breaking the status quo. Wars were (and are about to) be fought over power.

Something is going to break the balance, and whatever Zovaal (or insert some other character like Wrathion) is doing is going to trigger that event.

As for the antagonist part, I get it. That's the problem with Zovaal. We have no name and no face to this antagonist until Shadowlands, and now they tell us it was he who put all these things in motion, and it was hard to digest.

So Blizz needs to put a face and name to the next big bad now if they want us to deal with the Void eventually. No more cryptic clues, no more puzzles and riddles. No more flavour text hidden inside books in the game.

[Teriz]

Yeah, I never really wanted them to go there, but when the Chronicle initially seemed to re-pitch Warcraft as ultimately a fight to keep the Void Lords from devouring all existence, and I stopped believing they would allow cross-faction play, there were a few other places I thought they might go.

Isn't that the job of the Titans?

- - - Updated - - -

So void enemies.

Xal'atath and Wrathion are more Darth Vader and Palpatine than "The Void".

[Catastrophy349]

I've been really good at not spoiling the story for myself post 9.1. I know virtually nothing for 9.2. So, I'm excited for that and 10.0, of course. Furthermore, I am pumped with wherever the story goes for 10.0. I'm indifferent toward the direction.

[Teriz]

We don't need to overthink this. Power and control are perfectly good and believable reasons for breaking the status quo. Wars were (and are about to) be fought over power.

Something is going to break the balance, and whatever Zovaal (or insert some other character like Wrathion) is doing is going to trigger that event.

As for the antagonist part, I get it. That's the problem with Zovaal. We have no name and no face to this antagonist until Shadowlands, and now they tell us it was he who put all these things in motion, and it was hard to digest.

So Blizz needs to put a face and name to the next big bad now if they want us to deal with the Void eventually. No more cryptic clues, no more puzzles and riddles. No more flavour text hidden inside books in the game.

I agree. Zovaal was quite the ass-pull, and I don't want to see that happen again. What made Garrosh entertaining as a villain is that you saw his development from TBC all the way to MoP. Granted they kind of ruined his character, but I loved him as warchief and a big bad. We need more Garrosh and less Zovaal.

[huth]

Okay, and how do you stop that from happening, because opposing forces are always duking it out in some form or another. Also who would the raid bosses be? This is like a Star Wars movie where we're fighting the Force instead of users of the force. Darth Vader is a compelling adversary. The dark side of the force is not.

You're mixing up the antagonist with the primary fighting force. The antagonist doesn't have to be a physical being, just a force that acts counter to the protagonists goals. In this case, causing the usual destruction and general mayhem that comes with a war being fought while we would very much like our stuff to stay in one piece.

The main enemies would be various entities and groups aligned with the two forces, like Lightbound, Naaru, yellow and blue trashbags or Old God cultists and servants.

Also, wrong SciFa franchise, although it isn't as unfitting as you seem to imagine. But i'd look more towards Babylon 5.

[Teriz]

You're mixing up the antagonist with the primary fighting force. The antagonist doesn't have to be a physical being, just a force that acts counter to the protagonists goals. In this case, causing the usual destruction and general mayhem that comes with a war being fought while we would very much like our stuff to stay in one piece.

Okay, but forces like that aren't evil by nature, they just exist. It's like saying we're going to have an expansion where we fight a giant asteroid heading to Azeroth. That's a force acting against the protagonists' goals, and will cause tons of destruction and mayhem, but it simply doesn't work as a plot for a fantasy MMO. The void in of itself isn't evil, and many users of the void aren't evil either. The same applies for the light, so in what scenario would either one act to counter our goals? They're ever-present forces that have existed seemingly since time began.

The main enemies would be various entities and groups aligned with the two forces, like Lightbound, Naaru, yellow and blue trashbags or Old God cultists and servants.

Also, wrong SciFa franchise, although it isn't as unfitting as you seem to imagine. But i'd look more towards Babylon 5.

So what's the plot here? That we're going to witness a massive civil war between light and void forces, beat them, and then take the fight to the light and void itselves? So what happens after that? Do we unmake reality? Does reality reset itself? Again, it's an incredibly goofy idea. It's like after we destroy the asteroid we go off to some other plane of existence and try to beat up gravity!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So what's the plot here? That we're going to witness a massive civil war between light and void forces, beat them, and then take the fight to the light and void itselves? So what happens after that? Do we unmake reality? Does reality reset itself? Again, it's an incredibly goofy idea.

None of those need to even happen at all, what are you even going on about. The Light and Void will have friendly beings and antaganistic ones. Not hard

[Teriz]

None of those need to even happen at all, what are you even going on about. The Light and Void will have friendly beings and antaganistic ones. Not hard

Yes, but that isn't a light/void expansion, that's just an expansion with antagonists using certain types of magic. For example, Yrel invading Azeroth wouldn't be "the light" invading Azeroth, it would just be an army of crazed Draenei zealots who use holy magic. When you say that we're doing a Light/Void expansion, the antagonists are those cosmic forces, which makes no sense.

[Hitei]

Yes, but that isn't a light/void expansion, that's just an expansion with antagonists using certain types of magic. For example, Yrel invading Azeroth wouldn't be "the light" invading Azeroth, it would just be an army of crazed Draenei zealots who use holy magic. When you say that we're doing a Light/Void expansion, the antagonists are those cosmic forces, which makes no sense.

No, you are interpreting "a Light/Void expansion" as meaning "directly fight the cosmic force itself" as a really badly attempted strawman to try and claim your expansion idea makes more sense.

The Legion expansion was not about fighting Fel magic, or even Sargeras. BC was not about fighting Sargeras. Cata was not about fighting the Void or the Old Gods. Shadowlands isn't about fighting the cosmic force of death. Expansions are about fighting whatever person or group of people are actively attempting an incursion on the planet. In the case of a Void or Light expansion, there's no fighting "Light" or "Void" just like you can't fight the concept of "death", or "chaos", or "order", any expansion about antagonistic Light is going to be about stopping the forces of the Light from invading, be they Draenei, Naaru, some hypothetical Light pantheon, or whatever else. Any expansion about antagonistic Void is going to be about stopping the forces of the Void from invading, e.g. Old Gods, Void Naga, Xal'atath, fragments of Void Lords, etc.

[Teriz]

No, you are interpreting "a Light/Void expansion" as meaning "directly fight the cosmic force itself" as a really badly attempted strawman to try and claim your expansion idea makes more sense.

The Legion expansion was not about fighting Fel magic, or even Sargeras. BC was not about fighting Sargeras. Cata was not about fighting the Void or the Old Gods. Shadowlands isn't about fighting the cosmic force of death. Expansions are about fighting whatever person or group of people are actively attempting an incursion on the planet. In the case of a Void or Light expansion, there's no fighting "Light" or "Void" just like you can't fight the concept of "death", or "chaos", or "order", any expansion about antagonistic Light is going to be about stopping the forces of the Light from invading, be they Draenei, Naaru, some hypothetical Light pantheon, or whatever else. Any expansion about antagonistic Void is going to be about stopping the forces of the Void from invading, e.g. Old Gods, Void Naga, Xal'atath, fragments of Void Lords, etc.

That isn't what Huth said though. Huth said this;

You're mixing up the antagonist with the primary fighting force. The antagonist doesn't have to be a physical being, just a force that acts counter to the protagonists goals.

You're talking about the antagonist having to be a physical being, which I agree with. I don't agree with the notion of us fighting a cosmic "force" in of itself. It simply is not a compelling source of conflict in an MMO.

It should also be noted that simply calling an expansion a Light/Void expansion because there's no viable antagonist means that we're dealing with a bad expansion concept. In other words, there's going to be another asspull villain like Zovaal in place who was supposedly behind everything all along. Compare that to N'Zoth, who had been built up slowly over multiple expansions, and was truly the one behind the veil pulling the strings. N'Zoth was such a great villain that people don't actually believe he's dead after 8.3 and want more of him. On the other hand, most players don't care about Zovaal one way or another.