Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[draugril]

While true, Cloth, Plate, and Leather have 3+ each

Warlock, Priest, Mage

Demon Hunter, Druid, Rogue Monk

DK, Paladin, Warrior



Mail still only has 2

Hunter, Shaman

The logic is sound, but if this were an actual consideration, we wouldn’t have had Monk and Demon Hunter back to back.

[Jokubas]

Frankly I'd love to see mail removed and Hunter and Shaman just turned into Leather classes.

Since tanking became an innate spec feature and the loot system was changed forever ago, armor type doesn't really matter for much other than transmog. Hunter and shaman are both naturey classes and it would be nice if they could mix and match with druid, and hunter and rogue have enough thematic overlap that it would be nice if they shared skins too.

The logic is sound, but if this were an actual consideration, we wouldn’t have had Monk and Demon Hunter back to back.

That's always been the thing with classes. Demon hunters were a long-established and popular archetype. Monks filled a missing martial arts archetype and fit the expansion theme.

In Magic: The Gathering terms, Blizzard tends to design classes in a Top Down rather than Bottom Up fashion.

Armor isn't really what defines a class, especially after the changes that made armor type (and even armor value) almost meaningless. Creating something whole cloth just for the sake of armor, or forcing armor onto something it doesn't fit just to fill a quota, doesn't provide a lot of value for the effort.

Similarly, I think all the post-launch classes have been melee simply because there are more popular melee archetypes in Warcraft than ranged. I think Necromancer is the most obvious ranged option that isn't playable, but Death Knight took that slot before there were any new classes to make a trend out of.

[cocomen2]

Just remove mail armor from the game, fuse hunter sets to leather and shaman sets to plate, feels good.
(secretly wants Shaman transmog on his warrior, since given up on playing Shaman)

[Chickat]

New leak. Probably fake. I would be happy with it if it was real though. The "Press Release" is a nice touch.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post53582919

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Frankly I'd love to see mail removed and Hunter and Shaman just turned into Leather classes.

Since tanking became an innate spec feature and the loot system was changed forever ago, armor type doesn't really matter for much other than transmog. Hunter and shaman are both naturey classes and it would be nice if they could mix and match with druid, and hunter and rogue have enough thematic overlap that it would be nice if they shared skins too.

That's always been the thing with classes. Demon hunters were a long-established and popular archetype. Monks filled a missing martial arts archetype and fit the expansion theme.

In Magic: The Gathering terms, Blizzard tends to design classes in a Top Down rather than Bottom Up fashion.

Armor isn't really what defines a class, especially after the changes that made armor type (and even armor value) almost meaningless. Creating something whole cloth just for the sake of armor, or forcing armor onto something it doesn't fit just to fill a quota, doesn't provide a lot of value for the effort.

Similarly, I think all the post-launch classes have been melee simply because there are more popular melee archetypes in Warcraft than ranged. I think Necromancer is the most obvious ranged option that isn't playable, but Death Knight took that slot before there were any new classes to make a trend out of.

TBH I'd throw shaman to cloth for balance and lore, but then you have to add agility stats and all that.

[Nyel]

I'm thankful that I can easily request a day off of work on whatever day the 10.0 announcement winds up being. I enjoy hanging out in multiple channels/locations anticipating the HYPE before the official announcement. Can't wait!

Anyone else remember watching the Shadowlands Features Trailer and feeling like something was missing? I recall watching it and being like, "Huh, that's it?" I don't want that for 10.0, please!

The announcement was lackluster. They showed very few things as very few things had been finalized by then. They were behind with developing the expansion during the announcement, you instantly could see that.

I am not sure if they even mentioned legendaries during the announcement or if they talked about them later - everything was very low-key.

- - - Updated - - -

The best expansion announcement to date imo.

The last time Blizzard tried.

- - - Updated - - -

New leak. Probably fake. I would be happy with it if it was real though. The "Press Release" is a nice touch.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post53582919

All of this makes little sense when you realize that they cancelled Blizzconline where all of this information would have fit best and now they have to spread all this stuff with blue posts or press notices which will never generate the same buzz or hype.

The expansion sounds pretty dope though.

[Kiivar86]

New leak. Probably fake. I would be happy with it if it was real though. The "Press Release" is a nice touch.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post53582919

It certainly is a lot more work than usual.

Still doubt though.

Elune somehow empowering you to become Dragonsworn is also dumb because it just makes her even more diluted, power wise. She's the moon goddess except she's also somehow connected to naaru and the Shadowlands and dragons and why not just throw in every other cosmic force at that point.

[Dracullus]

I think it probably was intended to be but players are leaving more than they expected.

For sure drought (...twice) and scandal hit SL enough to lose more people than usual mid-expac and 9.1.5 was panic move, some changes for sure were planned for end of expac drought. But since then I don't think it's the trend, I hear way more about people returning.

So I don't think cross faction was some hasty decision. It's part of 9.2.5 to fill post 9.2 time with something and check reception for cross faction at same time. I think things that require more work (like merging guilds or war mode off) will be part of 10.0 and it would be cancelled if for some reason people hated last week news.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

It certainly is a lot more work than usual.

Still doubt though.

Elune somehow empowering you to become Dragonsworn is also dumb because it just makes her even more diluted, power wise. She's the moon goddess except she's also somehow connected to naaru and the Shadowlands and dragons and why not just throw in every other cosmic force at that point.

Oh but there's already a link to that on the lore -I felt it was a nice touch from OP-

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Embrace

Basically the conjunction of Azeroth's moons was used to create the Dragon Aspects on the first place so I think it's a neat lil detail in the write up.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Just remove mail armor from the game, fuse hunter sets to leather and shaman sets to plate, feels good.
(secretly wants Shaman transmog on his warrior, since given up on playing Shaman)

Both of them should just straight up wear leather. The upgrade to mail was only a gameplay concession for long forgotten systems. Shamans are tribal priests, no reason why they should wear anything other than leather. Hunters in WoW were always closer to the classical ranger in gameplay and theme than they were to a chainmail wearing crossbow marksmen.

[Nyel]

Oh but there's already a link to that on the lore -I felt it was a nice touch from OP-

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Embrace

Basically the conjunction of Azeroth's moons was used to create the Dragon Aspects on the first place so I think it's a neat lil detail in the write up.

It's a very elaborate "leak", absolutely. And it tackles a lot of details other obvious fake leaks don't.

I'm inclined to believe this, but it's something a devoted fan could create with some time and effort.

[Jokubas]

The biggest testament to Legion's hype level for me is that fact that I reflexively feel a positive nostalgia for it when the topic comes up, even though it started the time-gating and longer-than-a-month grinds that caused me to take my longest break from subscribing ever.

Legion had an amazing build up with comics and an audio drama and the Harbingers and the very first Chronicle. The marketing push was like nothing before or since and it really put me in the mood. The expansion itself not only involved the final battle against the Burning Legion, but it found time among the Class and Artifact questlines to tie off scores of loose plot threads from throughout the game's history. Coupled with the strong implications at the time that the Void Lords (newly retconned to be the ultimate evil in the Warcraft universe) were going to follow immediately after the Legion with their own apocalyptic invasion, it felt like Warcraft's story was coming to a climactic ending even if the nature of the MMO meant we knew it wouldn't actually happen.

So I don't think cross faction was some hasty decision. It's part of 9.2.5 to fill post 9.2 time with something and check reception for cross faction at same time. I think things that require more work (like merging guilds or war mode off) will be part of 10.0 and it would be cancelled if for some reason people hated last week news.

It wouldn't be the first time, either. Transmog and LFR came at the end of Cataclysm even though both are expansion selling point-level features. In fact, after the "breaking the cycle" stuff in Battle for Azeroth, I thought we might get something like this then in the last patch. I was only off by one expansion apparently.

[Chickat]

It certainly is a lot more work than usual.

Still doubt though.

Elune somehow empowering you to become Dragonsworn is also dumb because it just makes her even more diluted, power wise. She's the moon goddess except she's also somehow connected to naaru and the Shadowlands and dragons and why not just throw in every other cosmic force at that point.

Yeah even though it's probably fake, I give props to the creator. It sounds more interesting than anything Blizzard has come up with in 6 years.

[Jokubas]

Elune somehow empowering you to become Dragonsworn is also dumb because it just makes her even more diluted, power wise. She's the moon goddess except she's also somehow connected to naaru and the Shadowlands and dragons and why not just throw in every other cosmic force at that point.

What's really weird to me is that it wasn't so much of a problem before they started explaining every corner of the cosmos and distinguishing between different types of power (not to mention back when god-like characters were more distant and vague as to what was really their influence to begin with). However, at the same time they start creating these strict definitions, they go and more or less say that Elune is just an Eternal One of Life, a force she honestly didn't even have a lot of connection to before (Elune was the lunar Priestess thing, not the nature Druid thing, back when Night Elf society actually had a division in it). If you were going to explain her with this new system, I think it would have made a lot more sense to say she was a First One instead. Someone who helped create the powers to begin with would make more sense having their hands in several spheres than someone who should be solidly defined by just one (optimally, I would have preferred the god-like characters remain vague, but that ship sailed a long time ago :/).

EDIT: Then again, it's also a sort of problem with the Titans. Back when they were the "gods", them having varied, personalized power sets and each serving distinct roles in shaping worlds made sense. Now that entire idea has been sort of moved up a hierarchy tier and they shouldn't be representing such a wide spectrum of magic.

Oh but there's already a link to that on the lore -I felt it was a nice touch from OP-

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Embrace

Basically the conjunction of Azeroth's moons was used to create the Dragon Aspects on the first place so I think it's a neat lil detail in the write up.

I've been arguing for Elune's possible relevance to dragons when it comes to expansion speculations and I can't believe I forgot all about this. The fact that it was referenced as recently as the Folk and Fairy Tales book really reinforces my feelings that Elune is going to be important next expansion.

Both of them should just straight up wear leather. The upgrade to mail was only a gameplay concession for long forgotten systems. Shamans are tribal priests, no reason why they should wear anything other than leather. Hunters in WoW were always closer to the classical ranger in gameplay and theme than they were to a chainmail wearing crossbow marksmen.

Yeah, armor type used to translate to actual toughness. It made sense for Shaman to be a little tougher than other casters and thus get upgraded to a tougher armor type. Nowadays armor type is mostly cosmetic because toughness is basically binary (either you are the tank and can take hits, or you aren't and you get one-shotted), and locking Shaman into mail is just weird when they tend to dress like druids or even demon hunters (shirtlessness and all), with the exception of Thrall in Doomhammer Plate, but that's a special case like Anduin in full plate. Rexxar is very similar when it comes to the shirtlessness. While some "Hunters" like Alleria and Sylvanas wear more than that, most of their outfits look like leather anyway.

[Harbour]

The best expansion announcement to date imo.

You are not wrong. I remember tuning in Gamescom and then rewatching this teaser for like 50 times, thats how good it was.
Also gameplay preentation panel after that was like 2 hours long, and devs just went on various type of content, and they were going and going and going. New cosmetics, class halls, artifacts, class content, upgraded professions, new honor systems, class design etc.
It felt like Christmass. In comparison, SL presentation felt like some joke. "Uh, here we ahve covenants, you have to grind anima power, here the togast, thank you all, bye".

[Luck4]

The best expansion announcement to date imo.

I'm glad I had the time to no-life that expansion, Legion was one of the few expansions that I haven't unsubbed, I still remember doing every class hall in 7.3.5, after nearly 24 months of Legion, I still hadn't enough.

After the losses of Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, and Warlords of Draenor was nice to see WoW pumping one last time.

This is funny considering how hyped the Cataclysm announcement was:



People are cheering like every 20s, or so, LMAO! 2017 Blizzcon for BFA also had lots of hype, it feels like after a good expansion the next is always overhyped.

[Jokubas]

You are not wrong. I remember tuning in Gamescom and then rewatching this teaser for like 50 times, thats how good it was.
Also gameplay preentation panel after that was like 2 hours long, and devs just went on various type of content, and they were going and going and going. New cosmetics, class halls, artifacts, class content, upgraded professions, new honor systems, class design etc.
It felt like Christmass. In comparison, SL presentation felt like some joke. "Uh, here we ahve covenants, you have to grind anima power, here the togast, thank you all, bye".

One of the things that makes the whole "Shadowlands is the culmination of long-running plots" thing fall so flat is that Legion did the same thing, but so much better. Even if we ignore that Sargeras and the Burning Legion was actually a threat established in the first games, unlike the Jailer, Legion just did so much of a better job at it. Legion's version of Shadowlands would have had comics and audio dramas and show us how much the plot mattered instead of just telling us. Who knows, maybe they were planned and got cut due to everything that was happening in real life (and if so I feel really sorry for the people who planned for them). However, Legion also found time for other things as well. Legion managed to tie off so many other little plot threads or old mysteries, like "what's under Tirisfal", something that almost no other expansion has managed, not just Shadowlands.

[TriHard]

I hope they finally get rid of the unlimited grind, the worst thing WoW copied from Black Desert was exactly that, everything should have an end, leveling, gearing, player power, etc
That's why I've enjoyed FF14 because there is an end to everything and that's completely fine.

[Jokubas]

This is funny considering how hyped the Cataclysm announcement was:

It might be a minor thing but I'd love to see another trailer that got to devote time to hype up the new races like that. The Allied Races just got thrown together in the Battle for Azeroth trailer as almost a side note, and while the Mists of Pandaria trailer is arguably all about the Pandaren because it's their homeland, nothing is really said about them specifically or why/how they join us, it just has the New Race text pop up and then moves onto the next feature. And those are the only two times we've gotten races since Cataclysm.

[Makabreska]

I hope they finally get rid of the unlimited grind, the worst thing WoW copied from Black Desert was exactly that, everything should have an end, leveling, gearing, player power, etc
That's why I've enjoyed FF14 because there is an end to everything and that's completely fine.

???

They already did, they all have an end now. No titanforging anymore. Renown, Conduits, Dom Shards and tier sets all have easily obtainable finish line. Same with legendaries. And why you put leveling there I have no idea.