Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Khaza-R]

But that's not what the first wave of allied races did. 2 of the 4 were introduced at Legion's launch, the other 2 were introduced in 7.3, playable as pre-order in 7.3.5 & additional allied races tied to BFA were added in 8.0

Who said it has to copy what Legion -> BfA did?

[Ersula]

Idk.. it's just one of those thing, that people come back for. Just an actual new race starts lvl 1, new starting area.. the whole thing we know and love from a new race.

BFA & Shadowlands getting record pre-orders disagrees with that statement

[Darkarath]

This is IMO one of the big reasons where I feel Allied Races might be preferable. Specifically because most Allied Race storylines expand upon other racial stories & make them more developed.

Zandalari Troll lore absolutely expands on Darkspear lore, especially pending whatever happens with Vol'jin. Dark Iron Dwarf lore is pretty much arcing together at this point with Bronzebeard Dwarf lore, especially when Moira's son is grown. Void Elves, Lightforged Draenei, Mag'har Orcs, Highmountain Tauren, Kul'Tirans, Mechagnomes...aside from the Vulpera, most Allied Races did at least a certain amount of lifting to further the lore of another race in the story.

IMO, this would be a good thing to continue for any other Allied Races in the future. It's easy to see plenty of examples where this could still occur...Calia-style Forsaken, Gilgoblins, the Broken, Undead Elves, Fel Orcs, Jinyu, & Hozen all come to mind as races that would absolutely enhance another playable race's story immediately upon release.

I could agree with this. But allied races from the Shadowlands? No. No need at all.

[Ersula]

Who said it has to copy what Legion -> BfA did?

Who said they never do the same thing twice? You. You did. And that's wrong.

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I could agree with this. But allied races from the Shadowlands? No. No need at all.

You didn't say anything about them being from the Shadowlands. You said race over allied race, which has a 0% of chance of happening in a minor patch.

[Alanar]

This is IMO one of the big reasons where I feel Allied Races might be preferable. Specifically because most Allied Race storylines expand upon other racial stories & make them more developed.

Zandalari Troll lore absolutely expands on Darkspear lore, especially pending whatever happens with Vol'jin. Dark Iron Dwarf lore is pretty much arcing together at this point with Bronzebeard Dwarf lore, especially when Moira's son is grown. Void Elves, Lightforged Draenei, Mag'har Orcs, Highmountain Tauren, Kul'Tirans, Mechagnomes...aside from the Vulpera, most Allied Races did at least a certain amount of lifting to further the lore of another race in the story.

IMO, this would be a good thing to continue for any other Allied Races in the future. It's easy to see plenty of examples where this could still occur...Calia-style Forsaken, Gilgoblins, the Broken, Undead Elves, Fel Orcs, Jinyu, & Hozen all come to mind as races that would absolutely enhance another playable race's story immediately upon release.

You make a fair point. The stories really pushed atleast 2 races at the same time. Especially with trolls it was really welcome and nice to see the interaction we want to see with the Darkspear. The extra dock was a cool little nod at darkspear isle.

This could even be expanded with Class skins.. or Just cosmetics, but the base is right there I agree.

You know what, I actually though the allied race system was cool. I was hyped what next race we would see and the whole thing about unlocking a new race still sounds cool to me. It was just a shame we ended up with bunch of stupid options, that could have been just costumization options. Tauren antlers could have been a quest to get it as cosmetic option with Huln and all that, but nooo we got a a NEW race that are just tauren with antelers, gee thanks. Vrykul or Broken would have been waaay cooler.

[Khaza-R]

Who said they never do the same thing twice? You. You did. And that's wrong.

Nope. I was inferring there's no way they would pass up on using them as a pre-order bonus, because why would they. I never insinuated that meant they were going to copy BfA's implementation verbatim.

[Darkarath]

Who said they never do the same thing twice? You. You did. And that's wrong.

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You didn't say anything about them being from the Shadowlands. You said race over allied race, which has a 0% of chance of happening in a minor patch.

I never talked about patches. Just stating that more races are not needed. Shadowlands allied races would be in fact new races.

If they can come up with new allied races similar to the ones that we already got, some development for old races could be thrown in there, as @AngerFork already explained well enough.

[Ersula]

This could even be expanded with Class skins.. or Just cosmetics.

Whenever someone mentions class skins I imagine some developer at blizzard pitching "You know how we've ignored glyphs & heritage armor for a really long time? Let's introduce the same thing, give it a new name, called "class skins" just so we have a new thing to ignore!" and the rest of the crew applauding.

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I never talked about patches. Just stating that more races are no needed. Shadowlands allied races would be in fact new races.

Venthyr are night elf reskins. Kyrian are human reskins. Maldraxxi undead are kul'tiran reskins. Sylvan are female draenei reskins. They're as "new" as Vulpera. And people love them. The BFA preorder made so much money it broke the blizz shop.

[Darkarath]

Whenever someone mentions class skins I imagine some developer at blizzard pitching "You know how we've ignored glyphs & heritage armor for a really long time? Let's introduce the same thing, give it a new name, called "class skins" just so we have a new thing to ignore!" and the rest of the crew applauding.

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Venthyr are night elf reskins. Kyrian are human reskins. Maldraxxi undead are kul'tiran reskins. Sylvan are female draenei reskins. They're as "new" as Vulpera.

Vulpera are, IMO, a new race, not a sub race. They have nothing to do with the other races that we know. Allied races from the Shadowlands would be also new races. I am talking, of course, from a lore perspective, not about rigs and models.

[Ersula]

Nope. I was inferring there's no way they would pass up on using them as a pre-order bonus, because why would they. I never insinuated that meant they were going to copy BfA's implementation verbatim.

That's the opposite of what you wrote, honey.

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Vulpera are, IMO, a new race, not a sub race. They have nothing to do with the other races that we know. Allied races from the Shadowlands would be also new races. I am talking, of course, from a lore perspective, not about rigs and models.

So all you actually wanted to say was that your classification of an allied race is completely different from the game's classification of allied race? Because Vulpera are definitely an allied race.

[Alanar]

Whenever someone mentions class skins I imagine some developer at blizzard pitching "You know how we've ignored glyphs & heritage armor for a really long time? Let's introduce the same thing, give it a new name, called "class skins" just so we have a new thing to ignore!" and the rest of the crew applauding.

haha so true.

It's a shame they never went on with it.. one of the most requested options is to alter your spells or abilities. Old animations, npc animations or just a more class skin orientated option, where it would replace something, but purely in a cosmetic way. An example I gave few week ago, was Jedi Sage and Sith inquisitor from Swtor. They are the same, but look and feel completely different. Imagine you do that with warrior and blademaster for example.

Add in an rp element of joining certain clans, brotherhoods or tribes. With that comes new animation or spelleffects that were lost in the past. Example: Shadow has different priesthoods: Raven, void etc.. -->Raven heal glyph, alter the appearance of your shadow mend to raven heal.
I would love for something like this to happen. Go out in the world again, find glyphs in secrer places or wow I found a new hairstyle in the old zandalari troll cave. Like barber patterns or w/e.

Think about glyph system on steroid with whole new UI, slots to put. Sources could be from anywhere, including secret ones. Options are endless m8.

[Ersula]

With the newly HD Pelagos and Kleia, I strongly feel as though we're going to get allied races out of them, though.

The 9.2 HD models are for in-game cutscenes; they're not replacing the existing models. Tyrande & Sylvanas also got more detailed models but they're way more detailed than existing racial models.

[Darkarath]

I see a few possibilities

for shadowlands ARs I can see Pelagos and the covenant leaders coming together and saying "Yo, we need to change how death works". Perhaps allowing some to see Azeroth, even. Or perhaps sending some champions of the shadowlands out into Azeroth.

Alternatively, I could see them doing a Legion 7.3.5 (nightborne, void elf, lightforged, highmountain) sort of thing with a bunch of unplayable Azerothian races.

With the newly HD Pelagos and Kleia, I strongly feel as though we're going to get allied races out of them, though.

If they want Covenants races to become playable they will find a way.

As I already said, I am against playable races from the Shadowlands, but I have to admit that since Shadowlands was announced I thought about the possibility of a soft reset of WoW. Zovaal does some shit and the death system is broken, all souls are free to go wherever they want, giving Blizzard a chance to bring any character they want from the death.

Although I hope that they do not do that. It will be... Kind of lame.

[Nyel]

Which is a very good argument why they won't be playable. We're talking about if they were.

Yeah. If they were playable, every faction would have access to the same races from the Shadowlands. That’s the entire point.

[Darkarath]

So all you actually wanted to say was that your classification of an allied race is completely different from the game's classification of allied race? Because Vulpera are definitely an allied race.

From a lore perspective, I think that we can agree that Vulpera are a new race. They have nothing to do with any other WoW race, unlike all other allied races.

[ChairmanKaga]

Unpopular opinion...I don't want to see any allied races from the Shadowlands. They've already lived their lives. They're dead.

Ditto. Plus none of them are particularly compelling looking either.

[huth]

That's the only way Shadowlands allied races make sense.

I'd prefer if you don't formally join, but just pick a faction for faction dependent content (this being a necessity due to the way the game was set up).

[Nyel]

From a lore perspective, I think that we can agree that Vulpera are a new race. They have nothing to do with any other WoW race, unlike all other allied races.

If we go down that rabbit hole, only Nightborne, Kul Tirans and Vulpera are new races and shouldn’t be called allied races.

Zandalari Trolls, Dark Iron Dwarves, Void Elves, Highmountain Tauren and Mechagnomes are just new skins for existing races.

[Alanar]

If we go down that rabbit hole, only Nightborne, Kul Tirans and Vulpera are new races and shouldn’t be called allied races.

Zandalari Trolls, Dark Iron Dwarves, Void Elves, Highmountain Tauren and Mechagnomes are just new skins for existing races.

I would probably switch those, as male Zandalari troll is pretty much a new mode. Nightborne, altho I like them are just skinny made night elves with a different stance model wise.

Lore wise Nightborne are evolved so ye.. that might make it more complicated.

[Ersula]

From a lore perspective, I think that we can agree that Vulpera are a new race. They have nothing to do with any other WoW race, unlike all other allied races.

You're moving the goalpost so far its past the horizon at this point. You went from saying you didn't want the shadowlands races because regular races need more focus, to "actually the shadowlands races are regular races."

Yeah. If they were playable, every faction would have access to the same races from the Shadowlands. That’s the entire point.

A reason for them coming to Azeroth & a reason for for them to pick a faction are equally implausible tho. Especially when, yes cross-faction will be a thing, but they were also adamant that they didn't want to slap people in the face with it, which is what suddenly adding 4 cross-faction races would do.