Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Drawing attention to a logical failing of someone who is trying to broadcast the logical failing deliberately is precisely what they want to happen.

B-but... that means... they are willfully engaging in that dreaded action that begins with the letter "t" ...and that's against the rules here!

[Raetary]

Tbh, i'm confident that the expansion will be primarily themed around Life.
I don't buy anything else.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Please stop posting stuff without sauce.

Get used to it. "I found this on Discord" is the new "Hey did you see this post on 4chan?"

[Nyel]

Thing is, it's awful telling that you're outright assuming we're not, that I'm not. Not very kind actually, rather patronizing behavior. I never doubted the SL logo, and without knowing the name of "Domination" magic, I could recognize it's look from Icecrown.

I'm not speaking from my current perspective.

Patronizing? I‘m just reasoning and aiming to apply the same rules for both the Shadowlands and the Empire of Dragons logo because some clearly don’t. I don’t know what it has to do with kindness, I’m not trying to be rude anyway.

I don’t even know how you can project domination magic from Icecrown onto the Shadowlands logo. That’s just stuff you can assume now because it makes sense. Before Shadowlands official announcement it was just guessing, the same what we try with the Empire of Dragons logo now. If you want to debunk EoD as a fake leak, then do it with strong arguments that make sense. That’s my entire point. This is neither patronizing nor condescending.

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Edit: And Wrathion titles himself the Black Prince, after all...

This is so simple yet makes so much sense.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

You know what Empire of Dragons is? It's the new Awakenings.

It changes what it is every time it leaks because it's just a name people have latched onto and then they just mad libs the leak below it.

[fazaim]

Vantage point seems off. Like its still floating just above Hillsbrad instead.

This is better idea of what Dalaran would look like from surface level.

Looks great. Where is this from?

[Nyel]

You know what Empire of Dragons is? It's the new Awakenings.

It changes what it is every time it leaks because it's just a name people have latched onto and then they just mad libs the leak below it.

What? All Empire of Dragons has is the logo which is floating around for weeks now. The written leak for EoD came just a few days ago and this new announcement thing or whatever for EoD is barely two hours old. That’s just people hopping onto the train and trying to make use of the logo.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Patronizing? I‘m just reasoning and aiming to apply the same rules for both the Shadowlands and the Empire of Dragons logo because some clearly don’t. I don’t know what it has to do with kindness, I’m not trying to be rude anyway.

I don’t even know how you can project domination magic from Icecrown onto the Shadowlands logo. That’s just stuff you can assume now because it makes sense. Before Shadowlands official announcement it was just guessing, the same what we try with the Empire of Dragons logo now. If you want to debunk EoD as a fake leak, then do it with strong arguments that make sense. That’s my entire point. This is neither patronizing nor condescending..

But you're still doing it Nyel, lol..

I just told you as honest and straightforward as can be the truth of my situation, far before any confirmation, and you refused that, and decided to -tell me- once again that I am projecting what I know -now.-

This is disrespectful behavior, it's patronizing. You're saying 'You don't know what you're talking about or how you felt, but I do.'

No hard feelings of course, but just chill a little lol

[Jokubas]

I‘m not against anyone denouncing Empire of Dragons as fake. I‘m denouncing these arguments (like the logo has too many themes going on or that there is no clear reference to dragons) that some use, because they are poor in retrospect. Right now the logo might make not much sense, but it’s in no way different to the Shadowlands logo right before it was announced.

I believed Empire of Dragons more when it was new, but it's been too long now for me to feel strongly about it, but I agree.

I said a little while ago now, if an expansion was announced next week and the story involved a new "Imperial Dragonflight" with eggshell-colored, notched-blade scales on their backs, and a purple, starry underbelly, we'd suddenly be all "oh yeah, the Empire of Dragons logo is obvious." The recent post from the Kalimdor book about canonical legends of some mythical dragon homeland even gives a good candidate for where a literal "Empire of Dragons" itself could be that we'd take for granted as canon the second it's announced.

[Nyel]

I believed Empire of Dragons more when it was new, but it's been too long now for me to feel strongly about it, but I agree.

I said a little while ago now, if an expansion was announced next week and the story involved a new "Imperial Dragonflight" with eggshell-colored, notched-blade scales on their backs, and a purple, starry underbelly, we'd suddenly be all "oh yeah, the Empire of Dragons logo is obvious." The recent post from the Kalimdor book about canonical legends of some mythical dragon homeland even gives a good candidate for where a literal "Empire of Dragons" itself could be that we'd take for granted as canon the second it's announced.

Thank you. I would make the same arguments for a leak I wouldn’t believe in at all, if the same weak arguments would get used to debunk it. Everything in the logo can make sense as soon as they announce the expansion - the exact same thing happened with the Shadowlands logo and I find it a bit disingenuous to say that the Shadowlands logo was believable and plausible from the get go.

The main argument for the Shadowlands logo was the very high quality of the logo itself, not anything depicted in the logo. If I’d have the muse I would go back to the old thread and look for it, but I’m too lazy.

[Hitei]

How was Ashes debunked? There’s been other leaks where the announcement was delayed a week. Worth keeping an eye on the features and 9.2’s ending.

Ignoring the date entirely, it gets some very basic information wrong.

[Jokubas]

I feel like if Empire of Dragons was legit we would have gotten more about it by now than just a logo. Most leaks tend to come out in waterfalls as soon as the first part drops doesn't matter how big or small it is.

Yeah, at this point I don't expect it, or basically any of these, to be real. I mean, the unprecedented lack of BlizzCon and high possibility of being announced outside of an event entirely will throw off the normal situation for the real leaks, but that could just as easily mean we get nothing real this time (especially since a lot of the real stuff often seems to come from convention materials).

[micwini]

This is the colour of the Ren'dorei. You can expect this expansion to be Ren'dorei-focused.

Purple is the colour associated with the Ren'dorei AKA The Children of the Void.

One of the reasons its fake. Void elves will never take center stage.

[Hitei]

Patronizing? I‘m just reasoning and aiming to apply the same rules for both the Shadowlands and the Empire of Dragons logo because some clearly don’t. I don’t know what it has to do with kindness, I’m not trying to be rude anyway.

I don’t even know how you can project domination magic from Icecrown onto the Shadowlands logo. That’s just stuff you can assume now because it makes sense. Before Shadowlands official announcement it was just guessing, the same what we try with the Empire of Dragons logo now. If you want to debunk EoD as a fake leak, then do it with strong arguments that make sense. That’s my entire point. This is neither patronizing nor condescending.

The Shadowlands logo literally has skulls on it. You cannot compare the two.

"But maybe something could show up that will provide context for the frame" doesn't change that the frame is innately unclear. If some dragon with similar shapes in it shows up in datamining, it's still going to be completely unclear to anyone who didn't happen to see that datamining what the fuck the logo is trying to communicate--which is the exact opposite of the point.

You don't need to know that the flowy copper parts of Shadowlands logo = Oribos, and the spiky dark metal bits = Maw to understand the basic concept of it involving death. The skulls and foggy, ghostly white light do that. You don't need to know that what pieces of armor and weapons BfA's logo is made up of to get the basic concept of it being armored and the background being water-y naval related. You don't need to know that the WoD logo's globe is a silhouette of Draenor or the frame is orcish aesthetic to get the basic concept of it being firey, scarred and armor-plated.


EoD fails basic marketing. You do not want your viewer to have to have seen some Imperial Dragon Flight Drake model to even understand what the fuck is happening on the logo. If you are having to play "figure out what the theme is" or "come up with a convoluted possible explanation for the aesthetic", it's already lost.

[huth]

And also has the kind of name that a perennially stuck in their basement dork would think sounds cool and not someone with half a shred of common sense that wants to sell a product sounds cool.

A problem it shares with Empire of Dragons, for that matter. Brings some purple prose fantasy novel to my mind.

[Sondrelk]

The Shadowlands logo literally has skulls on it. You cannot compare the two.

"But maybe something could show up that will provide context for the frame" doesn't change that the frame is innately unclear. If some dragon with similar shapes in it shows up in datamining, it's still going to be completely unclear to anyone who didn't happen to see that datamining what the fuck the logo is trying to communicate--which is the exact opposite of the point.

You don't need to know that the flowy copper parts of Shadowlands logo = Oribos, and the spiky dark metal bits = Maw to understand the basic concept of it involving death. The skulls and foggy, ghostly white light do that. You don't need to know that what pieces of armor and weapons BfA's logo is made up of to get the basic concept of it being armored and the background being water-y naval related. You don't need to know that the WoD logo's globe is a silhouette of Draenor or the frame is orcish aesthetic to get the basic concept of it being firey, scarred and armor-plated.


EoD fails basic marketing. You do not want your viewer to have to have seen some Imperial Dragon Flight Drake model to even understand what the fuck is happening on the logo. If you are having to play "figure out what the theme is" or "come up with a convoluted possible explanation for the aesthetic", it's already lost.

Again though, this is pretty blatantly applying a double standard.
The name Shadowlands being related to death is fine, but so is Empire of Dragons being related to dragons.
If Empire of Dragons ends up being real and we have voidflight dragons and some old god leanings then the logo will make perfect sense. Noone would sit here and argue that it clearly doesn't fit since dragons are not perfectly analogous to void because by that point the theme and link would be obvious.

The Oribos theme is not copper and skulls. It's orange/blue with geometric shapes. And the Maw theme is not copper and skulls either, it's gunmetal grey and spikes. The SL logo doesn't actually fit the theme of Shadowlands terribly well outside the name and the skulls, but despite that we accept it because we kinda get what it's going for.

There is no reason to assume the Empire of Dragons logo wouldn't work on the same logic.
No it isn't heavily themed on dragons, but neither was the BfA logo themed heavily on either faction war nor old gods.
The EoD logo is well made, looks interesting, and has a strong theme. Whether it fits the expansion would be impossible to say without knowing what the expansion actually is.
Could absolutely have nothing to do with the void, in which case the logo is a bit weird. Or it could have loads to do with void, or a specific dragonflight, or look that way because the developers literally had no idea how to make a dragon themed logo and just decided to go for a more void themed one and don't stress too much about it.

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A problem it shares with Empire of Dragons, for that matter. Brings some purple prose fantasy novel to my mind.

Wow expansion names are not exactly a perfect font of endless creativity either. We had one called Wrath of the Lich King, and another called Mists of Pandaria, neither of which made much sense beyond the Lich King and Pandaria parts of their titles.
Empire of Dragons is pretty much about the same. It sounds cool enough, it flows well in conversation, and it emphasises the dragon part.

[NotAJournalist]

I'm not working for Blizzard in any way but I was lucky enough to be shown the new expansion announcement trailer and I got a few infos about some features that were shown in the video. Here's what I saw :

It begins with a shot of the Maelstrom and Wrathion explaining that Azeroth has been suffering for ages and always had protectors in the aspects. While he speaks, we are shown some images of the last few expansions starting with destroyed Silithus, then azerite wounds and Icecrown's shattered sky.
He then rants about how dragons have failed their duty as guardians of Azeroth, leading the mortals to do their job. He then claims that the dragons always had the tools to fix the issues on Azeroth, but were too scared to end up like him, hinting as another dragon (the effect of the video wants you to think Deathwing but it's actually Galakrond as revealed by the end of the trailer).

The Dragon Isles then appears on the world map, above the Eastern Kingdom with the infamous "New continent : Dragon Isles". Wrathion continues his speech, saying that forgotten powers lies sealed by secrets on the Island. While he speaks, we get some panoramics of the dragon isles and a better view at its creatures.

First we are shown a forest with clear white trees with orange / red leaves. It really has an Eversong vibe but in HD, with more flowers and the structures doesn't match the elves style. Most of the creatures here are known. We are shown red dragons walking in colored flowerfields, HD hawkstriders (the BE mount, not dragonhawk) and some HD gnolls wearing dragon bones armor (I actually loved them they don't look as silly as the vanilla/warcraft 3 gnolls). Some Ardenwealdlike butterflies with flower as wings and a few beasts we already know with a new skin such as shoveltusk or ents. A clip also featured creatures ressembling the mage tower druid form but were in a much greener environment. So I guess those were red and green dragon places (didn't asked).

Then there is this snowy crystal filled area looking with pools of mana / crystals. I really had a winter Aszuna/Suramar vibe here but with more weird / complex form and magical structures like in the Nexus. There's also a lot of translucent shape, half summoned looking with arcane looking colors. None of the creatures here are known to my knowledge. There was a big ugly manalfiend (like a mix of the second boss of Nighthold and abominations), some tiny crystal robots and small goofy froglike dudes with googles (they are not an allied race).

Last thing showed is a big desert with large dust beams going up as if time was reversed and falling down between some known structures (a human town hall from WoD and a big HD forsaken ship lost in the middle of the desert). Then we're shown some ghostly / infinite looking places (like the void-touched ground in 8.3 or the mawtouched area in the Maw) with some really gorgeous looking animals seemingly corrupted by the infinite dragonflight.
While all of these landscapes are shown, Wrathion keeps talking lore stuff, saying there are unexplored land of mysteries. I don't remember the exact words, but he talks about the power falling on the wrong hands. We are then shown some cultist who are not the Twilight Hammer, but actually the Wyrmcult from Blade's Edge and Sabellian is their leader (but you won't notice it on the trailer tho he has his own model. He just looks like Wrathion but older with orange clothes and greyed hairs).

After that, the usual title cards and fast sequences happens :

•The first one is the draconic bond. From what I was said, it will be covenant 2.0 fused with Heart of Azeroth's essences (trailer show all 5 dragons flight like they did with covenant) but instead of choosing just one, you will choose the order you unlock them (and unlock your campaign). Each one of them will bring their cosmetic and abilities (borrowed power) but you will have to choose one main dragonflight between each flights that will give you more power and a new active ability you will be able to swap freely. It will work like azerite essences where you can choose a few spell who are the same for every classes, but each spell will have a special effect based on the dragonflight empowering it.
•New class / race combos (night elf paladin and normal orc priest were featured in the trailer).
•Level cap raised to 70
•New mount customization. They displayed a dragon with different saddle, armor and with its color changing.
•New character customization with a bulky forest troll (in HD) and broken draeneis (both were males in the trailer but they will have female variant. Can't wait for female bulky troll).
•New glyph system but it's actually just a transmog table for spells.
•New "Temporal Anomaly" feature. It's the Island Exploration / Torghast of the expansion. Didn't had much details, outside of it being randomly generated content bringing you to various places and eras of Warcraft. It should bring multiples types of gameplay, and not just a dungeon crawling experience like Torghast. You might end up in the middle of a battlefield against two random armies and choose a side to gain a bonus for your run, or simply hunt with NPC adventurers for Hogger.
•New dungeons, raids, monsters and battlegrounds. The usual stuff.

Wrathion then concludes, saying it is now our duty to save our world, and to make sure the mortals will ensure Azeroth's security. When he's talking, there's a view of a big hole in Dragonblight. It is indedd Galakrond's fall. I'm pretty sure Blizzard will go with something like "It was a 4d chess where someone played the forces of death to claim Galakrond's soul".

And title card to the expansion : World of Warcraft : Age of the Mortals.

That's it. Video was about 4 minutes long which is the longest for an expansion trailer. No new races and no new classes but from what I was told most of the features we know will be improved. Also timewalking will leave the weekly event rotation to become its own league with different dungeons each season. Expect interviews in the coming weeks for 8.2 and a big announcement in a month...

[Makabreska]

I'm not working for Blizzard in any way

O shit guys this is it! This guy broke the pattern!

[Nebron]

The Shadowlands logo literally has skulls on it. You cannot compare the two.

"But maybe something could show up that will provide context for the frame" doesn't change that the frame is innately unclear. If some dragon with similar shapes in it shows up in datamining, it's still going to be completely unclear to anyone who didn't happen to see that datamining what the fuck the logo is trying to communicate--which is the exact opposite of the point.

You don't need to know that the flowy copper parts of Shadowlands logo = Oribos, and the spiky dark metal bits = Maw to understand the basic concept of it involving death. The skulls and foggy, ghostly white light do that. You don't need to know that what pieces of armor and weapons BfA's logo is made up of to get the basic concept of it being armored and the background being water-y naval related. You don't need to know that the WoD logo's globe is a silhouette of Draenor or the frame is orcish aesthetic to get the basic concept of it being firey, scarred and armor-plated.


EoD fails basic marketing. You do not want your viewer to have to have seen some Imperial Dragon Flight Drake model to even understand what the fuck is happening on the logo. If you are having to play "figure out what the theme is" or "come up with a convoluted possible explanation for the aesthetic", it's already lost.

What about Legion logo? I just went through all the WoW logos, and to be honest, as far as I could agree with your marketing logic here, Legion clearly doesn't fit it.
If it's really all about marketing, how it the world green theme would resonate with Legion vibes for someone, who doesn't even understand the title Legion itself?

I genuinely think you are going a bit too deep with that. For sure they aim for the logo to be cool marketing-wise, but it's all about the main theme for the expansion.
I'd be more willing to believe that it actually looks more like - hey guys, what is the theme of that expansion, the main attributes? Emm.. Torghast/Icecrown-like assets and maybe some Oribos ones. Yup. And what about colors? Let's go with black and white as it fits the narrative. Definitely there are concepts that are being approved or dismissed first, but I have a hard time to belive, that there's so much psychology that goes into the logo. Well, if that was the case, I'd say that Legion's black letters that clearly break the cannon for WoW's logos wouldn't be the best move from a psychological point of view. BfA logo is boring and it's absolutely the opposite of eye-catching.

Empire of Dragons' logo has a huge color contrast, which is a main eye-catching factor.
Nevertheless, if that was a logo for a dragon expansion, it'd bet on some dragon-themed assets being present on the logo, and there are none. It's pure void / little bit of elvish? elune? borders.

[Sondrelk]

O shit guys this is it! This guy broke the pattern!

I am just waiting for someone to go for a "I was given a tour of the offices and happened to catch a glimpse", or better yet something out there like "I am a make a wish patient and asked to see the next expansion".