Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Teriz]

I can firmly say they have done more in WoW than Monks did before they were added as a class. They're a world famous band, in canon lore.

Chen Stormstout helped Thrall and Rexxar defeat Lord Proudmore at Theramore. He was a champion of the Horde before WoW even began.

You're comparing that to a Blizzard spoof band that plays at the Darkmoone fair?

You're the one who said they "DIDN'T EXIST" but I'm not going to get into an argument just because you've moved the goalpost to saying they need to have more representation than your own pet hero class.

Bard heroes don't exist. ETC is not a hero, it's a spoof of a WC3 hero based on a band created by WoW employees.

(Gazlowe is a wow staple but he's never done anything noteworthy. Same for Mekkatorque)

Being the chief architect of Ogrimmar, and hiring Rexxar and Chen to secure Durator for the future Horde is not noteworthy?

[huth]

A class name was needed for the class concept, so I chose Dragonborne as a fitting class name. Nothing more, nothing less.

You could just call it dragon class. But then your non-sequitur becomes a lot more obvious.

[Raetary]

I never said that HotS is lore. I said that Blizzard has pulled class abilities and mechanics from HotS. The Demon Hunter class being one major example.

So Blizzard can pull and entire class out of HotS' depiction of dragons, but can't do the same with Hearthstones depiction of Bards.
Despite the latter being vastly more involved and has and got a lot of its concepts and characters canonized?

They don't exist. ETC is not a hero, it's a spoof of a WC3 hero based on a band created by WoW employees.

Funnily enough, ETC is a HotS character.
So using your own arguments, why can't they take the HotS concept of ETC and implement it into wow?

[Ersula]

Isn't hearthstone supposed to be canon within WoW as an actual boardgame? You see NPCs play it several places, the two shrines in MoP for instance.

No, Hearthstone isn't canon: But Russel is in WoW too. He's fighting for Boralus during the Faction assaults.

They don't exist. ETC is not a hero, it's a spoof of a WC3 hero based on a band created by WoW employees.

The.... They're in the game. They parade through Silvermoon AND the Darkmoon faire.

When it comes to intentional teasing for potential future classes by Blizzard, Bards have gotten a lot.

[Teriz]

You could just call it dragon class.

"Dragon class" is too broad.

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Funnily enough, ETC is a HotS character.
So using your own arguments, why can't they take the HotS concept of ETC and implement it into wow?

Compare the lore of Chromie, Alexstraza, and Deathwing to the lore of the ETC and that will answer your question.

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The.... They're in the game. They parade through Silvermoon AND the Darkmoon faire.

When it comes to intentional teasing for potential future classes by Blizzard, Bards have gotten a lot.

So why can't you tell me about their heroic/villainous exploits in lore?

[huth]

"Dragon class" is too broad.

As if Dragonborne was any more specific. Both could go just about anywhere so long as it somehow involves dragons.

Dragoon would be something more specific, both because of historic precedent and because Final Fantasy ingrained a very specific design in gaming popculture.

But this? You're getting overly attached to the specific idea in your mind and entangle it with a name that doesn't indicate it in the slightest. Avoiding that would be the point of using a more abstract title.

[Sondrelk]

No, Hearthstone isn't canon: But Russel is in WoW too. He's fighting for Boralus during the Faction assaults.

The.... They're in the game. They parade through Silvermoon AND the Darkmoon faire.

When it comes to intentional teasing for potential future classes by Blizzard, Bards have gotten a lot.

I mean canon as in there exists a boardgame within wow that presumably has the same stories we see when we play Hearthstone.

There wasn't a Stranglethorn tournament in WoW. But the WoW NPCs did play the same hearthstone campaign we did, if you see what I mean.

[Teriz]

As if Dragonborne was any more specific. Both could go just about anywhere so long as it somehow involves dragons.

Perhaps, but there's zero chance that Blizzard would call a class "Dragon class". There's a higher chance Blizzard would call a class Dragonsworn or Dragonborne.

Dragoon would be something more specific, both because of historic precedent and because Final Fantasy ingrained a very specific design in gaming pop-culture.

Yeah, but there's next to no chance a Dragoon class would show up in WoW. Dragoons are heavily armored lancers who can jump and occasionally breathe fire. No such characters/heroes exists in WoW, and I seriously doubt Blizzard would pull a carbon copy of the Dragoon over the Dragonborne concept that is both original to WoW and contains iconic Blizzard characters and concepts.

But this? You're getting overly attached to the specific idea in your mind and entangle it with a name that doesn't indicate it in the slightest. Avoiding that would be the point of using a more abstract title.

I'm merely attaching a catchy name to an existing, long-standing Blizzard concept. This way people can separate Dragonsworn, the TTRPG class concept, from the potential class concept shown in HotS involving Chromie, Alexstraza, and Deathwing.

[Raetary]

Compare the lore of Chromie, Alexstraza, and Deathwing to the lore of the ETC and you will answer your own question.

Lore? Lore can be established.
Nothing is stopping Blizzard from instructing their writers to create some Bard lore - this isn't an issue.

So, again, why do HotS mechanics mean anything in regards to dragons, but not to Bards when there is a literal musician as a character?

"Dragon class" is too broad.

"Dragons" is actually quite specific, what else could it refer to other than... well, Warcrafts dragons? Which is exactly what you want as a class.
Especially when you compare it to class names like "Warrior" or "Hunter" or "Priest" where each has a dozen and more different archetypes, in- and out-of-universe.

Either way, you are right that such a class would be called something else, because just "Dragon" is incredibly unimaginative and is not gonna cut it in the 2020s.
But what it would be called belongs in the speculation pile, so you can't just assert your own ideas onto everyone here and least of all canon lore.

[Ersula]

So why can't you tell me about their heroic/villainous exploits in lore?

Can you tell me why that matters? 8 of the 9 original classes weren't even based on Warcraft 3 heroes: They were based on the basic units. And "Hero Classes" in WoW don't have any significance anymore besides "they start at level 10 instead of level 1" Also I think being restricted to "existing characters" is a major hindrance at this point, not an asset.

[Teriz]

Lore? Lore can be established.
Nothing is stopping Blizzard from instructing their writers to create some Bard lore - this isn't an issue.

So, again, why do HotS mechanics mean anything in regards to dragons, but not to Bards when there is a literal musician as a character?

The ETC has been around for almost 20 years. No lore is going to be established because the ETC is not a legitimate character.

Why do HotS mechanics mean anything in regards to dragons? Because we have major lore characters (heroes and villains) that are dragons, we more than likely are getting a dragon expansion next, and HotS/WC3 abilities have formed the basis of classes in the past. If Blizzard wants to create a dragon class for an upcoming dragon expansion, there is a high chance they will turn to HotS to construct a dragon-based class, just like they did for the Demon Hunter class, the Tinker teams in Island Expedition, and Sylvanas' raid boss kit in 9.1.

I asked you to compare the lore because when you compare the lore of say Wrathion to the ETC, it becomes quite obvious which is a legitimate character in WoW lore that can drive an expansion, and which one is not.

Either way, you are right that such a class would be called something else, because just "Dragon" is incredibly unimaginative and is not gonna cut it in the 2020s.
But what it would be called belongs in the speculation pile, so you can't just assert your own ideas onto everyone here and least of all canon lore.

I'm not asserting my ideas onto anyone else. If someone can come up with a better name for the concept, I'm all ears. The point is that the concept of players being able to play as characters akin to Wrathion, Chromie, Alexstraza, etc. as a future class is a very possible scenario.

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Can you tell me why that matters? 8 of the 9 original classes weren't even based on Warcraft 3 heroes: They were based on the basic units.

Well that isn't true.

Druids: Malfurion
Hunters: Sylvanas, Tyrande
Priests: Tyrande
Mages: Jaina, Kael'thas
Warriors: Muradin, Grom
Paladins: Uther
Rogue: Maiev, Garona
Warlock: Gul'dan
Shaman: Thrall, Voljin

And "Hero Classes" in WoW don't have any significance anymore besides "they start at level 10 instead of level 1" Also I think being restricted to "existing characters" is a major hindrance at this point, not an asset.

It's not about "hero classes" The point is that WoW classes are based around major Warcraft characters, which is how you can build expansions around said characters and introduce their classes. It's easy to build an expansion around The Lich King because he's a major villain. It's easy to build an expansion around Chen because he's a major character. Illidan? They built two expansions around him.

You could also possibly build an expansion around Wrathion and Gazlowe because they are also major WC characters with tons of lore.

You have nothing with the ETC. Absolutely nothing, because it was never made to be a serious warcraft character.

[Nyel]

Oooof what happened here in the last hours

[Ersula]

Well That isn't True

They took *some* of their abilities, but moreso from the abilities of basic units. Druid, Shaman, Priest, Mage were all basic units. Priests didn't get ANY of Tyrande's abilities. I don't think Rogue got any of Maiev's abilities until at least MOP & Garona didn't have any abilities at all.

[Catastrophy349]

Oooof what happened here in the last hours

The lack of "news" today caused everyone to lose their marbles (so to speak).

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Someone make a good 10.0 "leak", hurry!

[Teriz]

They took *some* of their abilities, but moreso from the abilities of basic units. Druid, Shaman, Priest, Mage were all basic units. Priests didn't get ANY of Tyrande's abilities. I don't think Rogue got any of Maiev's abilities until at least MOP & Garona didn't have any abilities at all.

They took abilities from both heroes and basic units. The point is that the classes in WoW were designed for players to emulate Warcraft heroes.

BTW, this goal was intensified with the expansion classes DK, Monk, and DH, and we're talking about expansion classes in this case. If the Bard is to be an expansion class, it would DEFINITELY need to have a major Warcraft character/hero with enough lore to carry an expansion on its shoulders. The ETC simply does not have that in any capacity, and there is NO Bard hero to speak of.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

The lack of "news" today caused everyone to lose their marbles (so to speak).

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Someone make a good 10.0 "leak", hurry!

*wipes sleep-sand from eyes*.. already...? but... but it was only 10 pages ago, master...
edit: oh you said 'good', well shiiiiiiiiiiiiii

But also this class-banter has basically been the same back and forth for 10 pages, only worded slightly differently each post. Take 5 y'all

[huth]

Perhaps, but there's zero chance that Blizzard would call a class "Dragon class". There's a higher chance Blizzard would call a class Dragonsworn or Dragonborne.

Seems the concept of working titles is completely lost on you, then.

I'm merely attaching a catchy name to an existing, long-standing Blizzard concept.

You're attaching quite a bit more than just a name to it. That's the point.

This way people can separate Dragonsworn, the TTRPG class concept, from the potential class concept shown in HotS involving Chromie, Alexstraza, and Deathwing.

There is no such thing anywhere, neither in HotS nor in any other Blizzard game. You created the concept. Not Blizzard.

[Teriz]

There is no such thing anywhere, neither in HotS nor in any other Blizzard game. You created the concept. Not Blizzard.

https://heroesofthestorm.com/en-gb/heroes/deathwing/
https://heroesofthestorm.com/en-gb/heroes/alexstrasza/
https://heroesofthestorm.com/en-gb/heroes/chromie/

From Blizzard.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I feel like satire is lost on you.

I'm usually quick to assume satire because I have passing faith in human intelligence, but you have to admit that this forum is legitimately chock-full of people who would legitimately and unironically believe that they are being "astroturfed" by Blizzard to such an extent that it is not unlikely someone would believe that. The quantity of actively conspiratorial rantings is immense.

[Vladier]

Compare the lore of Chromie, Alexstraza, and Deathwing to the lore of the ETC and that will answer your question.

Chromie is an Arcane Mage (as can be seen during The Protectors of Hyjal), Deathwing is an Arms Warrior and Alexstrasza is essentially a mix of Resto Druid and Shaman, Holy Pally and a Fire mage(in HotS only, she's not shown fighting in her humanoid form in WoW). They don't have a class all to themselves, they are winged magical reptiles that breathe magic, hit people with clubs on their tails and can take on a humanoid form to blend in with mortals, and in that form they use classes that mortals use. Like, Alexstrasza's consort masqueraded as an Archmage on the Council of Six, who would probably notice if Krasus couldn't cast spells. The only magic that is their own is tied to their Dragonflight and is exclusive to that Dragonflight, you aren't going to see a Blue dragon putting people to sleep or healing people with fire.

Dragons can't be a class. At most they can either be a race (and be incredibly weak in that way) or an expansion feature, like having already existing characters take of the powers of dragons, like we had with the Covenants.