Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Shadochi]

The lore is not weak but ok.

I'm not bashing WoW specifically, its just that it is much harder to pull a good story in an MMO RPG (and in some areas almost impossible) than it is in a single player/Co Op RPG game. Its just the way it is that the latter are a better storytelling tool, which is why MMOs have to tell more of their story in outside media, or cinematics that don't include the player character, and also they can't reference the player character by name later in the game for something done in the past.

MMOs as a storytelling tool are weak.

But I guess I agree with what you say, I should've said that WoW has always been weak on Storytelling, not Lore in general.

[Vakir]

I was saying Afrasiabi's quality control was lacking. Calm the fuck down, tumblrina.

Literally siding with an abuser, I am TREMBLING.

(I feel like we're mocking the same thing at this point.)

Nah, that's fair. I'm just saying it was never good. The operative thing here is that you can't hide from poor quality by headcanoning away things based on real-life office crimes like a 12 year old fanfiction writer.

Your girl's tarnished. Forever. It gives me life.

> Alleria's VA is a fan of Sylvanas' character

> Blizzard: Makes Alleria and Sylvanas interact only once on the actual screen, at the Battle of Lordaeron, 4 years ago.

Stupid lol, the VA must be pissed off (understandably so).

Nah, she's just the Hearthstone one. That's why it's a fucking terrible performance compared to Mara Junot's.

[Hitei]

It's not so much that as it is "Why are they blue now?" and "Why weren't they glowing at all?" I'd even accept the idea they have normal colored eyes but the glow makes them look a certain color.

Again, glowing was not even a thing until basically BC, after which it still wasn't consistently a thing.

[TheFirstOnes]

This actually makes some sence to me.
As Janitors defeat cinematic (in game).
If you remember his room from 9.2 preview video, he does have "console" in his room with map of Northrend. And we do know that theres "something he casts towards Azeroth" in later phases.
What if thats the beam?
What if we get ported to Wyrmrest in last phase (mythic only)?
This seems highly plausible to me.

And theres still unanswered enigma of leaked Borean Tundra HD screen shot with flying Necropolis in background.

I wouldnt discredit this 1 that easily tbh.

The Jailer: *Is defeated*

Also the Jailer: *Dismantles the heart of Death to such a degree, that each force will aim to collapse upon one another until either the First Ones' design is destroyed or controlled by a singular power*

First One 02: Huh..seems our forces are fucking up our design?

First One 01: ...Meh, we got 900 more of these in the planning process anyway for this verse alone, don't worry. We can just erase it or reset the balance and make a new design when we think the force is starting to get a lil "unstable" LOL Right y'all?

First Ones collectively: Yes!

[Varodoc]

Nah, she's just the Hearthstone one. That's why it's a fucking terrible performance compared to Mara Junot's.

I see.

Don't let this distract you from the fact that there was never a Windrunner Reunion in a cinematic medium though.

[Nyel]

It would be a ridiculous revelation, making all the set up of a "long lost dragon homeland" and Wrathions passion project completely pointless.

It would be just as ridiculous or normal as Pandaria appearing out of nowhere after the Cataclysm. It’s totally doable and let’s not act like the WoW writers are some George R. R. Martin or Tolkien level of plot twists.

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I'm not bashing WoW specifically, its just that it is much harder to pull a good story in an MMO RPG (and in some areas almost impossible) than it is in a single player/Co Op RPG game. Its just the way it is that the latter are a better storytelling tool, which is why MMOs have to tell more of their story in outside media, or cinematics that don't include the player character, and also they can't reference the player character by name later in the game for something done in the past.

MMOs as a storytelling tool are weak.

But I guess I agree with what you say, I should've said that WoW has always been weak on Storytelling, not Lore in general.

You‘re statement is true though. Storytelling isn’t good. But lore, especially during BfA and Shadowlands, hasn’t been good either. That’s a totally valid statement and it’s just the truth. In fact BfA and Shadowlands lore, especially of the main plots, has been pretty terrible. That’s where they blew it. The smaller stories and lore that’s not directly attached to the main plot is working pretty well most of the time.

[Shadochi]

It would be just as ridiculous or normal as Pandaria appearing out of nowhere after the Cataclysm. It’s totally doable and let’s not act like the WoW writers are some George R. R. Martin or Tolkien level of plot twists.

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You‘re statement is true though. Storytelling isn’t good. But lore, especially during BfA and Shadowlands, hasn’t been good either. That’s a totally valid statement and it’s just the truth. In fact BfA and Shadowlands lore, especially of the main plots, has been pretty terrible. That’s where they blew it. The smaller stories and lore that’s not directly attached to the main plot is working pretty well most of the time.

I'd say the initial hook and story/plot in BfA was not good, but later on it became better. But the new lore added during BfA was good imo

[Gloriandus]

Maybe it's like, the Jailer is beaming Azeroth to kill her, he realizes he's going to lose, and then turns the beam on the bones of Galakrond, does some last-moment magicky death magic empowerment to the beam and voila! Supermegaultradragon is raised in uber-undeath and is now ready to run rampant to "kill" Azeroth.

Or, he's beaming Azeroth and the scene cuts to the "other side" of the planet where you see what appears to be massive glass domes cracking, then shattering, and voila! Galakranaonmonpolis is revealed!

[Catastrophy349]

Maybe it's like, the Jailer is beaming Azeroth to kill her, he realizes he's going to lose, and then turns the beam on the bones of Galakrond, does some last-moment magicky death magic empowerment to the beam and voila! Supermegaultradragon is raised in uber-undeath and is now ready to run rampant to "kill" Azeroth.

Or, he's beaming Azeroth and the scene cuts to the "other side" of the planet where you see what appears to be massive glass domes cracking, then shattering, and voila! Galakranaonmonpolis is revealed!

OR, the Jailer will pronounce that he is "inevitable."

[Shadochi]

Gonna have to disagree there. 20 years ago yeah absolutely but like even back then you had amazing MMOs breaking new storytelling grounds like A Tale in the Desert and now we have things like FFXIV and ESO.

No ymmv on whether you like the story thats being told in XIV and ESO but I think it would he super disingenuous to say the storytelling and lore presentation isnt stellar.

WoW has never had great storytelling. Blizzard in general is a summer blockbuster storyteller. That's part of why I love their shit but they definitely could step up their game on the storytelling front. Although I think Shadowlands was a huge step in the right direction in that regard.

Threads of fate letting them have a firm guided leveling story without burning people out on alt leveling. The way campaign storys are handled now i.e. Covenant/Domination chapters. Having long side quest chains to expand lore that only show up at 60. Etc. Whether you like the story of SL is gonna vary person to person but they're definitely headed in the right direction of telling their fun pulpy nonsense.

I'll take ESO for example why MMOs will be worse by design at storytelling than single player RPGs.

In the Single Player games your character will be known in the future as a historic figure, The Hero of Kvatch of Oblivion, Dragonborn for Skyrim and so on. Always by playing singleplayer games your specific character is doing something to be uniquely remembered by, while in MMOs when doing group content he will be remembered by the group.

This is simply how MMOs are for telling stories. In WoW specifically in the chronicles (vol 3 I believe) we have a clear example of this. The Lich King isn't stated to be defeated by member of "Paragon" (world first kill) but instead by "Tirion Fordring and his champions" (Chronicles, Volume 3, pg 187) (also referenced as forces/armies of the Alliance and the Horde, Chronicles, Volume 3, pg 186).

Its just that in MMOs the player character can never be as big of a part as a singleplayer game character ingame. Look at the heroes played in WC and their impact and references in lore vs the player character. At best they will be know by a title or a group they are part of.

I don't know much about XIV but I assume it is a similar case there as with ESO where singleplayer FF characters have much more relevance.

This is by design a flaw of the MMO concept for storytelling, and it is perfectly ok for it to be like that.
Thing is Elder Scrolls (its been a while tho) and FF have a running singleplayer series unlike Warcraft, to expand the story and create impactful stuff. (Yes I know ESO is in the past but still). The Warcraft franchise could really benefit from something like this to build up new lore and characters that people can connect to that isn't stuck to the Expansion mold they created for themselves. The connection to NPCs in MMOs is weaker as you see big name NPCs everywhere, while in SP games you can isolate and influence how you want the player to connect more easily (and ofc have the player be an important figure).

[Lazarel]

found this on 4chan

[Vakir]

I don't know much about XIV but I assume it is a similar case there as with ESO where singleplayer FF characters have much more relevance.

XIV runs a bit more like a single player experience in the context of story with MMO elements for raids and side content. You are very much the main character focus, are very much the person having the historical impact exclusively, and there's even a bit of a KOTOR-esque twist later on, albeit not the same so no spoilers. Anytime you go into a story based multi-person setting, it is either handwaved that "The Warrior of Light and his friends" did it or there's mechanics surrounding said twist to explain it. Or you go into the Trust system where you outright bring controlled NPCs of story friends with you (i.e. if we could do dungeons with Bolvar and the Bland Gang).

The tradeoff, however, is that FF14 is very insular to that individual player in terms of presentation. You don't share cutscenes like in TOR, for example. It is always the Warrior of Light and whatever NPC Scions are present. If you go into a duty as part of the main story, you alone can do it, and in many cases you can't even message or talk to someone while you're in that "instance."

Basically, it's an FF game first, and an MMO second.

So yeah. MMOs will always have some variant of hurdle, either by disqualifying elements of its own MMO-ness or by having everything be looked at as part of a broader group.

EDIT: What the hell is it with fake leakers, especially 4chan, and "Awakening(s)?" Is it trying to create some kind of SEO with their Great Awakening BS with QAnon? It's seriously not a very strong word to keep forcing as credible leaks. It's up there with "Revelations," "Origins," etc. as exceedingly generic suffixes.

[Catastrophy349]

found this on 4chan

Bruh. Only the logo or any other information?

[Lazarel]

Bruh. Only the logo or any other information?

Only this, no other info

[Catastrophy349]

Only this, no other info

I don't really care if it's real/fake. I like the logo, period.

[SunspotAnims]

found this on 4chan (LOGO)

The border screams photobash but it's a solid effort.

[Shadochi]

The logo doesn't seem styled in the same way as previous WoW logos, but I must say I am vibin with that style/design

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XIV runs a bit more like a single player experience in the context of story with MMO elements for raids and side content. You are very much the main character focus, are very much the person having the historical impact exclusively, and there's even a bit of a KOTOR-esque twist later on, albeit not the same so no spoilers. Anytime you go into a story based multi-person setting, it is either handwaved that "The Warrior of Light and his friends" did it or there's mechanics surrounding said twist to explain it. Or you go into the Trust system where you outright bring controlled NPCs of story friends with you (i.e. if we could do dungeons with Bolvar and the Bland Gang).

The tradeoff, however, is that FF14 is very insular to that individual player in terms of presentation. You don't share cutscenes like in TOR, for example. It is always the Warrior of Light and whatever NPC Scions are present. If you go into a duty as part of the main story, you alone can do it, and in many cases you can't even message or talk to someone while you're in that "instance."

Basically, it's an FF game first, and an MMO second.

So yeah. MMOs will always have some variant of hurdle, either by disqualifying elements of its own MMO-ness or by having everything be looked at as part of a broader group.

Ah thank you with the clarification, so basically it is limiting the MMO experience in order to do this better. One must be sacrificed for the other, tho playing Lost Ark with my partner that doesn't usually play MMO games and only leveling/playing together we both hate when it comes to those forced singleplayer scenarios, WoW has some I believe, but nowhere near a big scale.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

> Alleria's VA is a fan of Sylvanas' character

> Blizzard: Makes Alleria and Sylvanas interact only once on the actual screen, at the Battle of Lordaeron, 4 years ago.

Stupid lol, the VA must be pissed off (understandably so).

Yeah, the VA said she was pissed at what Blizz is doing to the story.

[Nightshade711]

Gonna have to disagree there. 20 years ago yeah absolutely but like even back then you had amazing MMOs breaking new storytelling grounds like A Tale in the Desert and now we have things like FFXIV and ESO.

No ymmv on whether you like the story thats being told in XIV and ESO but I think it would he super disingenuous to say the storytelling and lore presentation isnt stellar.

WoW has never had great storytelling. Blizzard in general is a summer blockbuster storyteller. That's part of why I love their shit but they definitely could step up their game on the storytelling front. Although I think Shadowlands was a huge step in the right direction in that regard.

Threads of fate letting them have a firm guided leveling story without burning people out on alt leveling. The way campaign storys are handled now i.e. Covenant/Domination chapters. Having long side quest chains to expand lore that only show up at 60. Etc. Whether you like the story of SL is gonna vary person to person but they're definitely headed in the right direction of telling their fun pulpy nonsense.

SWTOR is another good example of an MMO having a good story, in my opinion.
But to be fair it also does play like a singleplayer RPG with a MMO background. (For story/scenario content at least)

[Holdodlig]

Bruh. Only the logo or any other information?

I'd say it's fake for a few reasons :

-The background texture of the logo seems to be an in game texture of a window
-The first A of Awakening is not matching the other A. And it's not because it's the first letter of the world. Check BFA logo :



-And finally, the border looks really weird.

It's well done, but I'd say this one is 90% fake.