Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[YogSoggoth]

Damn guys, new Shadowlands zone dropped!



But sure, this feels like Azeroth, but Ardenweald doesn't

Eh, it's not like anyone remembers this location. It had like 2 quests involving it. It's nothing but a really nice looking footnote in history at this point.

[Zankai27]

People were literally saying Ardenweald doesn't feel like Azeroth because there is a big twisty floating tree lmao.

My point isn't that Crystalsong doesn't feel like a WoW zone, my point is that every single Shadowlands zone feels like a WoW zone and people just say it feels "alien" and "doesn't fit" because it's Shadowlands.

Ardenweald is like the only exception to it not feeling like WoW IMO. Nitpicks about creature models are irrelevant. What actually matters is the scope of the expansion and the presentation. Ardenweald actually bothers to call back to previous zones and lore outside of one cameo character. I still don't like Ardenweald as a whole, but the problem isn't that the zones don't *look* like Warcraft, but that what's presented feels alien because it's so utterly disconnected. It's difficult to explain, but the "Warcraftyness" of the setting feels a LOT more manufactured than natural. Any connections we have to previous lore are just told to us and we have to accept it without there being any sort of natural connection.

You have:

-Vampires who are reincarnations of just about any average joe who repents in the universe. Their connection to Azeroth, Draenor, Argus and any part of the established Warcraft setting? Varies, but minimal in the grand scheme. The same goes for the other two "normal" Covenants.

-A setting so cosmic that connections are difficult, and a storytelling style that doesn't accurately portray this without it feeling hackneyed. In MoP for instance, they put a LOT of effort into selling the lore of the setting. They had an entire rep based around it, and I think they accomplished that much more naturally there, and didn't even try here.

-Misuse of the major characters in play, besides arguably Anduin, that also doesn't help sell the setting. At points, it feels like the writers wanted to tell a story more like Destiny but had to weave it into Warcraft somehow. It doesn't help they keep trying to TELL us how important the stakes are rather than show us.

It feels like several contrivances put together that only tangentially feed back to the same setting, and the plots from all the zones are more often than not self-contained or disconnected from previous lore so they feel irrelevant and alien. I don't think it's about the visuals at all.

[Nightshade711]

*Sylvanas appears in yet another cinematic trailer*

Sylvanas becomes the aspect of the new official chromatic dragonflight that has the powers of all the other dragonflights in their prime after she tears the repowered Dragon Soul apart.
"You failed to protect this world, You are unfit to wield this power" She says before she does it.

[Gloriandus]

10.0 trailer drops immediately after the first raid kill happens.

[Vakir]

They're not dropping 10.0 without announcing it in advance. If the finale really does link to the next step, I'm betting 2-3 weeks from tomorrow. At least an extra week taken after Zovaal dies to cool it down, if not two, and...announce the announcement of an announcement, because everything in advertising now is recursive with its own hype.

[Catastrophy349]

They're not dropping 10.0 without announcing it in advance. If the finale really does link to the next step, I'm betting 2-3 weeks from tomorrow. At least an extra week taken after Zovaal dies to cool it down, if not two, and...announce the announcement of an announcement, because everything in advertising now is recursive with its own hype.

I agree. I fully expect 10.0 to be revealed before the end of March (at the latest).

[LTN]

Not a chance. There's no reason what so ever to announce it in March now. The patch and world first take care of all the hype they need for the end of quarter financials. I dont think well see an announcement till mid or early april at the soonest now. Which Im fine with 9.2 has tons to keep me busy.

I think expecting it in 2022 is unlikely maybe the announcement for it but sl isn't the way it is from good well thought out and well paced design.

[Shadochi]

Ardenweald is like the only exception to it not feeling like WoW IMO. Nitpicks about creature models are irrelevant. What actually matters is the scope of the expansion and the presentation. Ardenweald actually bothers to call back to previous zones and lore outside of one cameo character. I still don't like Ardenweald as a whole, but the problem isn't that the zones don't *look* like Warcraft, but that what's presented feels alien because it's so utterly disconnected. It's difficult to explain, but the "Warcraftyness" of the setting feels a LOT more manufactured than natural. Any connections we have to previous lore are just told to us and we have to accept it without there being any sort of natural connection.

You have:

-Vampires who are reincarnations of just about any average joe who repents in the universe. Their connection to Azeroth, Draenor, Argus and any part of the established Warcraft setting? Varies, but minimal in the grand scheme. The same goes for the other two "normal" Covenants.

-A setting so cosmic that connections are difficult, and a storytelling style that doesn't accurately portray this without it feeling hackneyed. In MoP for instance, they put a LOT of effort into selling the lore of the setting. They had an entire rep based around it, and I think they accomplished that much more naturally there, and didn't even try here.

-Misuse of the major characters in play, besides arguably Anduin, that also doesn't help sell the setting. At points, it feels like the writers wanted to tell a story more like Destiny but had to weave it into Warcraft somehow. It doesn't help they keep trying to TELL us how important the stakes are rather than show us.

It feels like several contrivances put together that only tangentially feed back to the same setting, and the plots from all the zones are more often than not self-contained or disconnected from previous lore so they feel irrelevant and alien. I don't think it's about the visuals at all.

Vampires aren't new to WoW, and where is it stated that Venthyr are vampires? Yes they use fantasy vampire trope inspired everything, but I dont remember any blood sucking venthyr.

IMO all 4 leveling zones fit WoW, the only "cosmic feeling" about them is that most are floating islands (tho for Maldraxus we cant see beyond the mountains except where we fly in, and Ardenweald has more ground area around it where we cant go).

Maldraxus fits Azeroth, with a scourge theme that has been on Azeroth for what, almost 3 decades ingame now? Nothing really feeling cosmic about this zone.

Revendreth tbh lookls just like a zone we could've gotten in any expansion so far, maybe with the vampire elves on Azeroth being instead of a new race.

Bastion looks just like Stormheim and Halls of Valor on steroids.

None of the 4 zones have a cosmicy feel about them.

And to be honest the cosmic zones we saw so far are Argus and Outland (with various instanced minizones through rifts), the SL leveling zones are a better fit to Azeroth than those cosmic zones.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Alts are supposed to be alts and not second mains though.

If you want them to be second mains, you have to put in the same effort as for your main. that's a conscious decision by Blizzard.

And maybe, just maybe, that's a terrible outdated take now.

"You have to pick one spec and main it through thick or thin" is how you burn out a lot of people, especially as the community at large ages into less time for playing the game. If you're faced with days on end of catch-up, plus the expansion-long daily grinds all over again, it can start to feel like "if I change my mind I'm better off playing a different game for 2 years than even trying to catch back up." Imagine finding out your main is being changed in 9.2 not because of anything rotational, but because a soulbind got nerfed or your second legendary choices aren't great, and being told "well just start over and do the 9.0 and 9.1 grinds again."

Again, WoW's chief competitor says "if you want to change mains the only investment you need to make is the time to level and maybe the time to gear back up." And you know what, that's also what WoW said back in its glory days of Vanilla-MoP. Your only investment if you wanted a change was time to level, and time to gear. None of these secondary covenant grinds, soulbind unlocks, legendary forgings, and campains.

- - - Updated - - -

10.0 trailer drops immediately after the first raid kill happens.

They may drop the date after the first kill but no way they shadowdrop the trailer. They'll need time to get all their influencer sites/streamers on board.

[huth]

Vampires aren't new to WoW, and where is it stated that Venthyr are vampires? Yes they use fantasy vampire trope inspired everything, but I dont remember any blood sucking venthyr.

Actually, one of the Igors is wearing a scarf to hide the bite holes and complains about it.

[Vakir]

I would rather have 800 convulted and confusing systems to parse than 4 bosses in a room and every piece of gear being a stat stick.

Blizzard shouldn't learn from FFXIV because if people wanted to play something like XIV they can just play XIV.

Da fuq? Nobody is saying to emulate those in the first place. To imply that borrowing some things that function effectively means you need to borrow everything including poor fits is a terrible strawman.

Alt-friendliness has nothing to do with any of that. You can keep the same systems (and make them better) and make alts with them less of a slog.

[Vakir]

WoW is already alt friendly. Just because you need to pick one thing to focus on instead of being able to mythic raid the same week as maxing an alt doesnt make it alt unfriendly.

The game is too alt friendly it's got people convinced that if they dont clear every single thing every single day on 15 alts that theyre gonna fall behind. They burn themselves out and then blame Blizzard for it.

Still a ridiculous strawman. Nobody is making that claim regarding full clear of all content or Mythic raiding. You can make the barrier for entry on certain systems less oppressive to hit mid-tier content (i.e. normal or early to mid boss heroic raids, single digit keys) without aspiring to the highest eschelon of content, and you don't need to go and generalize every player over it.

There's also the social pressure of expectation and that isn't always on the player trying to enter, it's on the gatekeeping expectations.

Jumping straight to that just tells me you're overly defensive and not willing to engage in a real discussion.

[Catastrophy349]

Not a chance. There's no reason what so ever to announce it in March now. The patch and world first take care of all the hype they need for the end of quarter financials. I dont think well see an announcement till mid or early april at the soonest now. Which Im fine with 9.2 has tons to keep me busy.

I don't think your comment is false. However, I am expecting, at the minimum, 10.0 related news in March. If not a reveal (which I am still expecting), then at-least something/anything related to 10.0. Your reasoning is sound, 100%. Q1 is already set up nicely. Revealing 10.0 in April would be a great way to set up Q2. All in all, we're all entitled to our own opinions/thoughts. These are mine.

[Ersula]

They're not dropping 10.0 without announcing it in advance. If the finale really does link to the next step, I'm betting 2-3 weeks from tomorrow. At least an extra week taken after Zovaal dies to cool it down, if not two, and...announce the announcement of an announcement, because everything in advertising now is recursive with its own hype.

That first part is true. But I totally expect them to post "Tune in Tomorrow for news about What's coming to WoW next" Or since we're in uncharted territory already "Tune in in 2 hours for news about What's coming next to WoW" Plus if they've already waited this long I expect them sending out Alpha codes at the exact same time. Alpha should start sometime in the next two months & considering 9.2 is done, that's next on their testing itinerary. (Yes there's 9.2.5 but they usually test minor final patches & the alpha simultaneously.)

- - - Updated - - -

Not a chance. There's no reason what so ever to announce it in March now. The patch and world first take care of all the hype they need for the end of quarter financials. I dont think well see an announcement till mid or early april at the soonest now. Which Im fine with 9.2 has tons to keep me busy.

That's also true: But there's also no reason to wait. It's definitely ready to go and an expansion announcement (despite what people keep claiming) increases hype for the latest major content patch, rather than take hype away from it.

- - - Updated - - -

I think expecting it in 2022 is unlikely maybe the announcement for it but sl isn't the way it is from good well thought out and well paced design.

We might get a January 2023 release date but because Blizzard has been back to normal in-person buisness hours since April 2021, I expect the time between 9.2 and 10.0 to be about the same as 8.3 and 9.0: 8 and a half months. It would probably emulate 7.3's release schedule:

Announcement sometime in the next 2 weeks. Pre-order same time.
Mount & Pet unlocked immediately.
Pre-order allied races 3 months later in 9.2.5
10.0 early 4th quarter

[FossilFree]

If the Awakening name is real, maybe we are waking up from a horrific vision of N'zoth and the Shadowlands never actually happened. We thought we defeated him in 8.3, but it was all a hallucination and he had already ensnared our minds. We are just standing there in his boss room having our essences absorbed by N'zoth. It could even be years later, with our allies having given up on us long ago and who are now fighting a war with the void.

[Vakir]

I'm in agreement with @Ersula here in one significant way: a juicy 10.0 that sounds interesting would make me more inclined to play 9.2 and be excited, not less. Waiting too long feels like a mistake. Naturally, can only speak for myself and I lack whatever data Blizzard probably has. Metrics, focus testing, etc.

If Awakening is true and that's the plot, in any remote way, I will eat one of my old shoes. But it will be with a smile on my face if it legit retconned the last 1.5 expansions.

[Zulggun]

If the Awakening name is real, maybe we are waking up from a horrific vision of N'zoth and the Shadowlands never actually happened. We thought we defeated him in 8.3, but it was all a hallucination and he had already ensnared our minds. We are just standing there in his boss room having our essences absorbed by N'zoth. It could even be years later, with our allies having given up on us long ago and who are now fighting a war with the void.

This is one of the most popular theories (or more like wishes) that many people have but it will never happen. Blizzard won't just invalidate an entire expac especially as they plan expacs ahead. As much as I would love Nzoth to come back this kind of story just won't be.

[Hitei]

If the Awakening name is real, maybe we are waking up from a horrific vision of N'zoth and the Shadowlands never actually happened. We thought we defeated him in 8.3, but it was all a hallucination and he had already ensnared our minds. We are just standing there in his boss room having our essences absorbed by N'zoth. It could even be years later, with our allies having given up on us long ago and who are now fighting a war with the void.

This is never going to happen. Even if N'zoth's defeat was smoke and mirrors and we come back to a full-on Black Empire incursion with Ny'alotha manifested, Shadowlands itself will not have been fake. It'd be that we got tricked into thinking N'zoth was dead, went off to deal with Sylvanas and Shadowlands and had Azeroth secretly invaded behind us while we were gone.

They would not unwrite Shadowlands, way too many plot points are resolved and way too much is explained to suddenly have all that in question again. For example: if Shadowlands didn't happen, suddenly you have Tyrande still the Night Warrior again, but now we have no idea how being a Night Warrior works, because her powers didn't actually go out of control, and we don't know if there are other Night Warriors, and we don't have any idea what happened to the souls of the people lost at Teldrassil or if Elune cared--because all of that plot was something that happened in a dream. We don't know what the deal is with Vol'jin or why he made Sylvanas warchief, because Mueh'zala's involvement is also a dream. Sylvanas' current whereabouts and status are completely in question, because she just peaced out but everything afterwards was just a dream we also have no idea where her insane magic powers at the end of BfA came from since the explanation was Shadowlands content. Bolvar is the lich king again, we have no idea who Bwonsamdi's "boss" is.

There's just too much going on in Shadowlands for it to suddenly not count.

[FossilFree]

Invalidating SL is for sure a stretch, but it does feel on par with the WoD AU in terms pointlessness. Everything that happened there didn't really "count" or matter to the story at all once we left.

It'd be that we got tricked into thinking N'zoth was dead, went off to deal with Sylvanas and Shadowlands and had Azeroth secretly invaded behind us while we were gone.

I like this possibility! It would make sense too. N'zoth feigns death and we have left Azeroth defenseless for at least a couple of years (maybe longer if the SL time differences come into play). Maybe that will be the payoff with Xal'atath finally? Somehow she restores N'zoth or takes his place?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Of course it mattered(SL events), but that would get in the way of hating on SL.