1. #26301
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Simple in the concept maybe but not to develop, imagine trying to have a fully customizable house in wow mechanics. Of course it would be instanced, no way around it. I don't believe that wow mechanics without major system overhauls would be possible to pull that much more customization than Garrisons had. I just can't imagine how a "house builder and decorating" system could work in WoW without it taking up the majority of dev time.

    If you look at the most of the systems they add, they are an evolution of existing systems and it's been that way since the inception of wow with very few big truly new systems being added and not evolving from something.
    I'd say the WoW mechanics would work just fine.
    You already have quests in which you place objects (crates, barrels...) wherever you target and you can interact with them or even jump on them.
    Rotation could be done in 15/30º angles using a vehicle interface. 1 rotates left, 2 rotates right, 3 places the object, 4 cancels.
    Objects wouldn't collide with each other or walls, so you could place them pretty much wherever.
    Ultimately, each instance of a player house would just need to store the coordinates and rotation of each object.

    As for the houses themselves, they could be as simple or as complex as they want to make them. They could just be set layouts or modular rooms. I think it'd be relatively easy to place them "anywhere in the world", as in, environments based on different zones, and the house would just go in a flattened area surrounded by invisible walls. Glorified skyboxes with reused assets.

    In the end it'd be another collection. You solo and old raid and earn a dragon's head trophy. You get a recipe to craft a desk from doing PvP, and then have to buy materials from the AH. You get a set of curtains from a rare that spawns every full moon... All using existing models already in the game, and recolors could be separated into different objects to make the proverbial carrot on a stick last longer.

    Blizzard's attempt at housing in WoD failed because they tried to make it important, when it's not supposed to be. It's exactly the kind of feature that one should design as a bonus that can be safely ignored by those who already sink many hours into the PvE/PvP aspects of the game, but would keep (some of) those who don't busy.

  2. #26302
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Can you guys smell the smoke???

    Tinker announcement so soon.
    That is a weird way to spell void elf customisation!
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  3. #26303
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Can you guys smell the smoke???

    Tinker announcement so soon.
    More like a fart.

  4. #26304
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    More like a fart.
    Who knows maybe they use sulfur for some of their attacks.

    Sulfur cannon, maybe it's a CC incapacitate.

    Regardless can't wait!

  5. #26305
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    But you just said that this is the first time Blizzard is announcing an expansion like this?
    Legion /10char

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Garrison was rly a good idea but it was wasted, i personally loved the stables where you could put your mounts to wander around.
    This is a big problem with wow, indicative of Ion's approach to the game: If a feature doesn't have a lasting positive impression, they just make it irrelevant as soon as possible. Instead of the better, long term approach: Of fixing the feature until it becomes fun. So we have all these ideas that could have been fun, made trivial. IE Torghast, Garrisons, Scenarios, Warfronts, etc.

  6. #26306
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    So we have all these ideas that could have been fun, made trivial. IE Torghast, Garrisons, Scenarios, Warfronts, etc.
    The farm evolved into Garrisons, which (d)evolved into Class Halls, which evolved into Covenants.
    Scenarios are still used for quests sometimes, but also evolved into stuff like the Trove of the Thunder King, Withered Army, the deaths of Chromie, Island Expeditions, Visions of N'zoth and Torghast.
    Warfronts were indeed a new idea that didn't quite work in that form and they just dropped. Perhaps we'll see other attempts at cooperative base-building PvE/PvP gameplay in future expansions.

    Now, any of these features could have been kept as they were, with just added content, but instead they chose to make them obsolete and bring a new version of them. At some point they'll probably create an evergreen "Torghast" that they can just add content to without it being necessarily tied to the current expansion, but they probably don't want to establish a new permanent feature of the game until they've decided that it's design is popular and fun enough, which Scenarios and Island Expeditions weren't.

  7. #26307
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    The farm evolved into Garrisons, which (d)evolved into Class Halls, which evolved into Covenants.
    Scenarios as a game mechanic is just a phased instance: I was referring to Scenarios in MoP, which were 3-man dungeons. You can say "they made them obsolete to bring in a new version of them" but you're focusing on the aspect of these things that are set dressing, not, for example, the seige aspect of Garrisons, which was supposed to be the main mechanic, but almost no body did them, so they became irrelevant.

    You're trying to frame these features as "evolving" but you're missing my entire point: They ditch a prime feature of an expansion, mid-expansion, to revamp it into a new form, the following expansion, only to ditch it halfway through, again. This is a horrible cycle. You managed to put a positive spin on an awful gameplay experience. And I'm sure Ion looks at it the same way.

    If they actually prioritized making these new features fun during the expansion, they wouldn't need to create an entirely new feature each expansion, like Mythic+
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-02-28 at 06:36 PM.

  8. #26308
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Scenarios as a game mechanic is just a phased instance: I was referring to Scenarios in MoP, which were 3-man dungeons.
    They're not phased. They're full-on instances. Blizzard can just hide the loading screen since WoD.

  9. #26309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Scenarios as a game mechanic is just a phased instance: I was referring to Scenarios in MoP, which were 3-man dungeons. You can say "they made them obsolete to bring in a new version of them" but you're focusing on the aspect of these things that are set dressing, not, for example, the seige aspect of Garrisons, which was supposed to be the main mechanic, but almost no body did them, so they became irrelevant.

    You're trying to frame these features as "evolving" but you're missing my entire point: They ditch a prime feature of an expansion, mid-expansion, to revamp it into a new form, the following expansion, only to ditch it halfway through, again. This is a horrible cycle. You managed to put a positive spin on an awful gameplay experience. And I'm sure Ion looks at it the same way.

    If they actually prioritized making these new features fun during the expansion, they wouldn't need to create an entirely new feature each expansion, like Mythic+
    Agreed to an extent, but I feel you are missing one of the main reasons behind these decisions: non-permanence. With WoW up until Warlords, we had several features that were added into the game that once introduced became a baseline expectation for expansions that followed: Flying, Jewelcrafting, Inscription, Archaeology, new classes, & Pet Battles immediately come to mind. Each expansion afterwards expected these new pieces to be a part of the base game, increasing the amount of work it took to simply launch an expansion. Each new class for instance is a handful of specs to balance & adjust abilities on any time an expansion comes out...but realistically can't be marketed as such as it is baseline.

    These features that you speak of being revamped & ditched is in part a way for them to keep a concept optional, so it is never required as more silent work. M+ for instance is somewhat updated/revamped each expansion & marketed with the new adjustments. Pet Battles on the other hand are still always added with new pets/abilities constantly added, yet never mentioned. This then is why I think they've had problems. I agree that they could make fun features out of most of their additions if they iterated, but with the non-permanence of these features what's the point? It's easier to cut bait & move onto the next feature that they can market, rather than fix & improve something they really can't market from here into the future.

    I'm not saying I agree with this style...if anything, I think they'd be better off simply readding those features & fixing them. But I can see from a baseline work setup why they are doing it the way they do.

  10. #26310
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You're trying to frame these features as "evolving" but you're missing my entire point: They ditch a prime feature of an expansion, mid-expansion, to revamp it into a new form, the following expansion, only to ditch it halfway through, again. This is a horrible cycle. You managed to put a positive spin on an awful gameplay experience. And I'm sure Ion looks at it the same way.

    If they actually prioritized making these new features fun during the expansion, they wouldn't need to create an entirely new feature each expansion, like Mythic+
    But that's the thing, Scenarios "kind of" worked and "kind of" didn't. Some stuff was fine and some wasn't. Many players weren't satisfied with how they worked, which is why Blizzard kept iterating the formula.

    Mythic+ was also an evolution of Challenge Mode. It wasn't kept as it was in its first version, it was transformed into something else. Once they were satisfied with how it worked, and they saw enough interest and participation, they kept the format.

    Torghast is the most advanced version of Scenarios, which includes some (kind of, but not really) procedural gameplay, which was first (kind of, but really not) introduced in Expeditions. The biggest failure of Torghast was probably how it tied to legendaries, and now they know that people would rather do it for cosmetic rewards, and that most of it should be rather easy and silly, with optional challenges for more dedicated players. Like I said, it's likely some iteration of Torghast will be the thing that will stay, and that'll be the "ultimate" version of Scenarios that they couldn't do in MoP.

  11. #26311
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    But that's the thing, Scenarios "kind of" worked and "kind of" didn't. Some stuff was fine and some wasn't. Many players weren't satisfied with how they worked, which is why Blizzard kept iterating the formula.

    Torghast is the most advanced version of Scenarios, which includes some (kind of, but not really) procedural gameplay, which was first (kind of, but really not) introduced in Expeditions. The biggest failure of Torghast was probably how it tied to legendaries, and now they know that people would rather do it for cosmetic rewards, and that most of it should be rather easy and silly, with optional challenges for more dedicated players. Like I said, it's likely some iteration of Torghast will be the thing that will stay, and that'll be the "ultimate" version of Scenarios that they couldn't do in MoP.
    Thanks for explaining stuff I'm already aware of but my point remains true: Waiting until the following expansion to "fix" these features is bad game development.

    "you got to deal with this bad feature because we're not fixing it until we can sell it to you in an expansion" is bad for the players & any rationalization of this is copium.

  12. #26312
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Thanks for explaining stuff I'm already aware of but my point remains true: Waiting until the following expansion to "fix" these features is bad game development.

    "you got to deal with this bad feature because we're not fixing it until we can sell it to you in an expansion" is bad for the players & any rationalization of this is copium.
    You wanted them to try and change Scenarios into stuff like Chromie, Visions and Torghast... during MoP? Ignoring the time spent into, y'know, coming up with those ideas, they have to program them, test them internally...

    And yeah, there's an aspect of marketing, a new expansion needs new features, so they'd rather implement them in a .0 than in the last patch of the previous expansion, but it's not like you could have Scenarios in 5.0, Withered Army in 5.1, Island Expeditions in 5.2 and Torghast in 5.3. Well, you could, but it would cost you a you know what.

  13. #26313
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    But that's the thing, Scenarios "kind of" worked and "kind of" didn't. Some stuff was fine and some wasn't. Many players weren't satisfied with how they worked, which is why Blizzard kept iterating the formula.

    Mythic+ was also an evolution of Challenge Mode. It wasn't kept as it was in its first version, it was transformed into something else. Once they were satisfied with how it worked, and they saw enough interest and participation, they kept the format.

    Torghast is the most advanced version of Scenarios, which includes some (kind of, but not really) procedural gameplay, which was first (kind of, but really not) introduced in Expeditions. The biggest failure of Torghast was probably how it tied to legendaries, and now they know that people would rather do it for cosmetic rewards, and that most of it should be rather easy and silly, with optional challenges for more dedicated players. Like I said, it's likely some iteration of Torghast will be the thing that will stay, and that'll be the "ultimate" version of Scenarios that they couldn't do in MoP.
    Torghast is a zero effort zero budget mode that looks and plays like it was put together in a day. It uses the same handful of assets nonstop, even less assets than a $5 roguelike on Steam.

  14. #26314
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Legion /10char
    It was announced at Gamescom though? I don't remember if the announcement of the announcement at Gamescom was done 2 weeks ahead, but in that specific case I'd argue the 2 weeks wouldn't be enough, as people might need to buy tickets in advance. But in the case of a livestream, you don't need much preparation other than just being online at that hour, if your timezone allows it. But again, it might be 2 weeks in advance indeed. I don't know. Just trying to say there is no past history to base an educated guess on as the situation is different.

  15. #26315
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    It was announced at Gamescom though? I don't remember if the announcement of the announcement at Gamescom was done 2 weeks ahead, but in that specific case I'd argue the 2 weeks wouldn't be enough, as people might need to buy tickets in advance. But in the case of a livestream, you don't need much preparation other than just being online at that hour, if your timezone allows it. But again, it might be 2 weeks in advance indeed. I don't know. Just trying to say there is no past history to base an educated guess on as the situation is different.
    It was an interesting time honestly, I quoted some image reference I posted a few weeks back now here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post
    Since Legion was one of the few examples of an expansion announcement outside of BlizzCon,

    it may be worth noting how the Announcement-for-the-Announcement in 2015 was a mere 8 days notice on July 29th for August 6th.



    Seems we'd be in for a non-BlizzCon announcement of course this year too. Who knows
    Last edited by Archmage Xaxxas; 2022-02-28 at 08:53 PM.
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  16. #26316
    Man I remember progressing on socrethar on my glad stance warrior when that tweet came out, good times.

  17. #26317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcinatoss View Post
    Man I remember progressing on socrethar on my glad stance warrior when that tweet came out, good times.
    Wasn't that build dead by then? I was playing Shadow Priest Clarity of Power in Blackrock, also an experimental build.
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  18. #26318
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post
    It was an interesting time honestly, I quoted some image reference I posted a few weeks back now here:
    Huh... Then what the f is up with people saying Blizzard is going to announce their announcement 2 weeks or more in advance xD ? They literally dropped their most popular expansion casually like that

  19. #26319

  20. #26320
    ...that link plus the caps made me think it was going to be something of substance, like an announcement.

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